Miatapower List Archive

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Alexander J Pierce <(email redacted)>


I am buying new headers tonight... that entire side of the engine is
stripped of everything else at the moment, so might as well do it while the
labor is easier.... rather not have to install & remove the Sebring too
many times.

So, I have the 1.8 Sebring / Moss / Jackson Racing SC, and I want to know
what header is the 'best'. Dyno results would be great. I have heard
more about the JR headers than anyone else's, but I know there are also the
Bosal & Racing Beat headers. I am leaning toward the JR units, as I love
their exhaust, but if any of you can sway me, go for it.

BTW, I am probably buying these this evening, or tomorrow morning, so just
give me a heads up. This is for a 94R w/ no AC, so there is NOTHING in the
way over there.

_alex_
1994 MX-5 Miata R-pkg w/ Sebring SC (still at 6psi...for now)

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Tom Graham" <(email redacted)>


Gibb got an extra 10 hp on his Autorotor when he installed headers by Bob
Boing (sp?). I believe they are 4 into 1. I have no idea where to get a set
but if you find some please tell me.

Tom

----Original Message Follows----
From: Alexander J Pierce <(email redacted)>
Reply-To: Alexander J Pierce <(email redacted)>
To: (email redacted), (email redacted)
Subject: [SSCOR] [LPC] New Headers
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:59:38 -0600


I am buying new headers tonight... that entire side of the engine is
stripped of everything else at the moment, so might as well do it while the
labor is easier.... rather not have to install & remove the Sebring too
many times.

So, I have the 1.8 Sebring / Moss / Jackson Racing SC, and I want to know
what header is the 'best'. Dyno results would be great. I have heard
more about the JR headers than anyone else's, but I know there are also the
Bosal & Racing Beat headers. I am leaning toward the JR units, as I love
their exhaust, but if any of you can sway me, go for it.

BTW, I am probably buying these this evening, or tomorrow morning, so just
give me a heads up. This is for a 94R w/ no AC, so there is NOTHING in the
way over there.

_alex_
1994 MX-5 Miata R-pkg w/ Sebring SC (still at 6psi...for now)


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at hotmail.com

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Mel Hoagland" <(email redacted)>


And didn't have a turbocharger...
------------------------------------------------------------
Mel Hoagland ((email redacted))
----- Original Message -----
From: Beau Randall <(email redacted)>
To: Tom Graham <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>;
<(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
Sent: Monday, September 27, 1999 7:14 PM
Subject: Re: [SSCOR] [LPC] New Headers


>
>
> IIRC, that was a header designed by Lester Seal (Apex) for Bob Boig,
> and actually gave Gibb about a 15 hp bump. Gibb had said it wouldn't do
> much good unless your car is pushing over 200hp. - Beau
>
> --- Tom Graham <(email redacted)> wrote:
> >
> > Gibb got an extra 10 hp on his Autorotor when he installed headers by
Bob
> > Boing (sp?). I believe they are 4 into 1. I have no idea where to get a
set
> > but if you find some please tell me.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> > ----Original Message Follows----
> > From: Alexander J Pierce <(email redacted)>
> > Reply-To: Alexander J Pierce <(email redacted)>
> > To: (email redacted), (email redacted)
> > Subject: [SSCOR] [LPC] New Headers
> > Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:59:38 -0600
> >
> >
> > I am buying new headers tonight... that entire side of the engine is
> > stripped of everything else at the moment, so might as well do it while
the
> > labor is easier.... rather not have to install & remove the Sebring too
> > many times.
> >
> > So, I have the 1.8 Sebring / Moss / Jackson Racing SC, and I want to
know
> > what header is the 'best'. Dyno results would be great. I have heard
> > more about the JR headers than anyone else's, but I know there are also
the
> > Bosal & Racing Beat headers. I am leaning toward the JR units, as I
love
> > their exhaust, but if any of you can sway me, go for it.
> >
> > BTW, I am probably buying these this evening, or tomorrow morning, so
just
> > give me a heads up. This is for a 94R w/ no AC, so there is NOTHING in
the
> > way over there.
> >
> > _alex_
> > 1994 MX-5 Miata R-pkg w/ Sebring SC (still at 6psi...for now)
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________
> > Get Your Private, Free Email at hotmail.com
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Bid and sell for free at auctions.yahoo.com

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Beau Randall <(email redacted)>



IIRC, that was a header designed by Lester Seal (Apex) for Bob Boig,
and actually gave Gibb about a 15 hp bump. Gibb had said it wouldn't do
much good unless your car is pushing over 200hp. - Beau

--- Tom Graham <(email redacted)> wrote:
>
> Gibb got an extra 10 hp on his Autorotor when he installed headers by Bob
> Boing (sp?). I believe they are 4 into 1. I have no idea where to get a set
> but if you find some please tell me.
>
> Tom
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: Alexander J Pierce <(email redacted)>
> Reply-To: Alexander J Pierce <(email redacted)>
> To: (email redacted), (email redacted)
> Subject: [SSCOR] [LPC] New Headers
> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:59:38 -0600
>
>
> I am buying new headers tonight... that entire side of the engine is
> stripped of everything else at the moment, so might as well do it while the
> labor is easier.... rather not have to install & remove the Sebring too
> many times.
>
> So, I have the 1.8 Sebring / Moss / Jackson Racing SC, and I want to know
> what header is the 'best'. Dyno results would be great. I have heard
> more about the JR headers than anyone else's, but I know there are also the
> Bosal & Racing Beat headers. I am leaning toward the JR units, as I love
> their exhaust, but if any of you can sway me, go for it.
>
> BTW, I am probably buying these this evening, or tomorrow morning, so just
> give me a heads up. This is for a 94R w/ no AC, so there is NOTHING in the
> way over there.
>
> _alex_
> 1994 MX-5 Miata R-pkg w/ Sebring SC (still at 6psi...for now)
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at hotmail.com
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at auctions.yahoo.com

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: The Dealer Alternative <(email redacted)>


I have a set on my n/a car, they're beautiful, but in its present mild state of
tune (header, cai,ecu, exhaust) they gave me no benefit. Once it has the new
11/1 pistons, etc they may help more.

Tom Graham wrote:

> Gibb got an extra 10 hp on his Autorotor when he installed headers by Bob
> Boing (sp?). I believe they are 4 into 1. I have no idea where to get a set
> but if you find some please tell me.
>
> Tom
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: Alexander J Pierce <(email redacted)>
> Reply-To: Alexander J Pierce <(email redacted)>
> To: (email redacted), (email redacted)
> Subject: [SSCOR] [LPC] New Headers
> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:59:38 -0600
>
> I am buying new headers tonight... that entire side of the engine is
> stripped of everything else at the moment, so might as well do it while the
> labor is easier.... rather not have to install & remove the Sebring too
> many times.
>
> So, I have the 1.8 Sebring / Moss / Jackson Racing SC, and I want to know
> what header is the 'best'. Dyno results would be great. I have heard
> more about the JR headers than anyone else's, but I know there are also the
> Bosal & Racing Beat headers. I am leaning toward the JR units, as I love
> their exhaust, but if any of you can sway me, go for it.
>
> BTW, I am probably buying these this evening, or tomorrow morning, so just
> give me a heads up. This is for a 94R w/ no AC, so there is NOTHING in the
> way over there.
>
> _alex_
> 1994 MX-5 Miata R-pkg w/ Sebring SC (still at 6psi...for now)
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at hotmail.com

--
Bill Cardell
The Dealer Alternative, Inc.
Grand Junction, CO
dlralt.com
200mphmiata.net
970-242-3800 tech inquiries
1-800-FLY-MX5S orders only

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)





But one hell of a supercharger ......





"Mel Hoagland" <(email redacted)> on 09/27/99 06:59:36 PM

Please respond to "Mel Hoagland" <(email redacted)>

To: (email redacted)
cc: (bcc: Dan W Thorpe/WLGORE)
Subject: Re: [SSCOR] [LPC] New Headers





And didn't have a turbocharger...
------------------------------------------------------------
Mel Hoagland ((email redacted))
----- Original Message -----
From: Beau Randall <(email redacted)>
To: Tom Graham <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>;
<(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
Sent: Monday, September 27, 1999 7:14 PM
Subject: Re: [SSCOR] [LPC] New Headers


>
>
> IIRC, that was a header designed by Lester Seal (Apex) for Bob Boig,
> and actually gave Gibb about a 15 hp bump. Gibb had said it wouldn't do
> much good unless your car is pushing over 200hp. - Beau
>
> --- Tom Graham <(email redacted)> wrote:
> >
> > Gibb got an extra 10 hp on his Autorotor when he installed headers by
Bob
> > Boing (sp?). I believe they are 4 into 1. I have no idea where to get a
set
> > but if you find some please tell me.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> > ----Original Message Follows----
> > From: Alexander J Pierce <(email redacted)>
> > Reply-To: Alexander J Pierce <(email redacted)>
> > To: (email redacted), (email redacted)
> > Subject: [SSCOR] [LPC] New Headers
> > Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:59:38 -0600
> >
> >
> > I am buying new headers tonight... that entire side of the engine is
> > stripped of everything else at the moment, so might as well do it while
the
> > labor is easier.... rather not have to install & remove the Sebring too
> > many times.
> >
> > So, I have the 1.8 Sebring / Moss / Jackson Racing SC, and I want to
know
> > what header is the 'best'. Dyno results would be great. I have heard
> > more about the JR headers than anyone else's, but I know there are also
the
> > Bosal & Racing Beat headers. I am leaning toward the JR units, as I
love
> > their exhaust, but if any of you can sway me, go for it.
> >
> > BTW, I am probably buying these this evening, or tomorrow morning, so
just
> > give me a heads up. This is for a 94R w/ no AC, so there is NOTHING in
the
> > way over there.
> >
> > _alex_
> > 1994 MX-5 Miata R-pkg w/ Sebring SC (still at 6psi...for now)
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________
> > Get Your Private, Free Email at hotmail.com
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Bid and sell for free at auctions.yahoo.com

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Frank Mowry <(email redacted)>


Speaking of headers, check out the "header shootout" for Hondas in the latest Sport
Compact mag (or maybe it was last months). Pretty sad how that much money gives
you less than 5 hp for the most part on an NA car.

Frank Mowry

The Dealer Alternative wrote:

> I have a set on my n/a car, they're beautiful, but in its present mild state of
> tune (header, cai,ecu, exhaust) they gave me no benefit. Once it has the new
> 11/1 pistons, etc they may help more.
>
> Tom Graham wrote:
>
> > Gibb got an extra 10 hp on his Autorotor when he installed headers by Bob
> > Boing (sp?). I believe they are 4 into 1. I have no idea where to get a set
> > but if you find some please tell me.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> > ----Original Message Follows----
> > From: Alexander J Pierce <(email redacted)>
> > Reply-To: Alexander J Pierce <(email redacted)>
> > To: (email redacted), (email redacted)
> > Subject: [SSCOR] [LPC] New Headers
> > Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:59:38 -0600
> >
> > I am buying new headers tonight... that entire side of the engine is
> > stripped of everything else at the moment, so might as well do it while the
> > labor is easier.... rather not have to install & remove the Sebring too
> > many times.
> >
> > So, I have the 1.8 Sebring / Moss / Jackson Racing SC, and I want to know
> > what header is the 'best'. Dyno results would be great. I have heard
> > more about the JR headers than anyone else's, but I know there are also the
> > Bosal & Racing Beat headers. I am leaning toward the JR units, as I love
> > their exhaust, but if any of you can sway me, go for it.
> >
> > BTW, I am probably buying these this evening, or tomorrow morning, so just
> > give me a heads up. This is for a 94R w/ no AC, so there is NOTHING in the
> > way over there.
> >
> > _alex_
> > 1994 MX-5 Miata R-pkg w/ Sebring SC (still at 6psi...for now)
> >
> > ______________________________________________________
> > Get Your Private, Free Email at hotmail.com
>
> --
> Bill Cardell
> The Dealer Alternative, Inc.
> Grand Junction, CO
> dlralt.com
> 200mphmiata.net
> 970-242-3800 tech inquiries
> 1-800-FLY-MX5S orders only

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)


It looked like those 4 into 1's really worked on the top end. Wasn't it about
15 hp?

Les.

<< Speaking of headers, check out the "header shootout" for Hondas in the
latest Sport
Compact mag (or maybe it was last months). Pretty sad how that much money
gives
you less than 5 hp for the most part on an NA car. >>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Frank Mowry <(email redacted)>


I didn't read the whole article, but looked at the graphs and notes that came
with them. I think the race headers that dumped exhaust before the cat might
have gained 15. I'll have to check it again. SCC didn't test the stock headers
without the cat and catback though. I'd guess they might have found some hp
there too. I'll check the mag again today. I didn't buy the mag so I'll have to
swing by the store again and check it out.

Frank

(email redacted) wrote:

> It looked like those 4 into 1's really worked on the top end. Wasn't it about
> 15 hp?
>
> Les.
>
> << Speaking of headers, check out the "header shootout" for Hondas in the
> latest Sport
> Compact mag (or maybe it was last months). Pretty sad how that much money
> gives
> you less than 5 hp for the most part on an NA car. >>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)


Yes, it was the race headers that developed all that power. Simple muffler
(if you want to call it that) that was a press fit onto the end of the
header, dumping the exhaust under the car. No cat, and obviously, no
catback.

This brings me to a question. Could a set of headers be designed that
flatten out the torque curve of a N/A 1.8 in the higher rpms? Given
"standard" bolt on mods, (and a legal exhaust) I'd like to see something
that makes the engine rev a little nicer, keeping the torque curve from nose
diving so much. It looks to me that most of the headers on the market
complement the normal Miata torque curve by enhancing mid-range torque. Are
there any other designs out there?

George

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Frank Mowry [mailto:(email redacted)]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 6:23 AM
> Cc: (email redacted)
> Subject: Re: [SSCOR] [LPC] New Headers
>
>
>
> I didn't read the whole article, but looked at the graphs and
> notes that came
> with them. I think the race headers that dumped exhaust
> before the cat might
> have gained 15. I'll have to check it again. SCC didn't
> test the stock headers
> without the cat and catback though. I'd guess they might
> have found some hp
> there too. I'll check the mag again today. I didn't buy the
> mag so I'll have to
> swing by the store again and check it out.
>
> Frank
>
> (email redacted) wrote:
>
> > It looked like those 4 into 1's really worked on the top
> end. Wasn't it about
> > 15 hp?
> >
> > Les.
> >
> > << Speaking of headers, check out the "header shootout" for
> Hondas in the
> > latest Sport
> > Compact mag (or maybe it was last months). Pretty sad how
> that much money
> > gives
> > you less than 5 hp for the most part on an NA car. >>
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)


There are only two over-the counter header designs; 4-2-1 and 4-1. There
are trade-offs and there is no utopia. If you use a 4-1 (assuming equivalent
intake and cam airflow mods to take advantage of the header) the torque will
increase in the high rpms and be less at lower rpms. Generally speaking a
4-2-1 design gives just the opposite with more torque lower and less higher.

I personally wouldn't tune the engine characteristics with a header, just
make sure it flows well so as to not impede flow. The currently available
Miata headers will only change about 1-2 ft lbs between designs, I dyno'd my
4-2-1 and 4-1 and that was the only difference in a NA car (a supercharged
motor can probably benefit more from the 4-1 than the NA because of the
larger airflow).

What you are describing can probably be better addressed with adjustable cam
sprockets. Retarding cam timing produces more high rpm torque and advancing
produces more low rpm, this will give much larger results than header tuning.

Randy
(FYI, the Bosel produces the best low rpm torque of any of the existing 4-2-1
designs in a NA car)


<< This brings me to a question. Could a set of headers be designed that
flatten out the torque curve of a N/A 1.8 in the higher rpms? Given
"standard" bolt on mods, (and a legal exhaust) I'd like to see something
that makes the engine rev a little nicer, keeping the torque curve from nose
diving so much. It looks to me that most of the headers on the market
complement the normal Miata torque curve by enhancing mid-range torque. Are
there any other designs out there?
>>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)


> What you are describing can probably be better addressed with
> adjustable cam
> sprockets. Retarding cam timing produces more high rpm
> torque and advancing
> produces more low rpm, this will give much larger results
> than header tuning.
>

Interesting insight Randy, thanks. Has anybody been able to quantify the
effects? How much torque can you shift up and down the rpm scale using only
shifts in cam timing?

Also, I've noticed that some people leave these sprockets exposed. Are
there any foul weather issues here?

George

> What you are describing can probably be better addressed with
> adjustable cam
> sprockets. Retarding cam timing produces more high rpm
> torque and advancing
> produces more low rpm, this will give much larger results
> than header tuning.
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Kurt Summers <(email redacted)>


Would not try this with a *charged engine, but I am going to try -10 INT
and -2 EXH in the next couple of days. Desktop dyno says it will drop 2000
RPM torque from 125 to 118 and shift the HP curve up from 149 @ 6000 to mid
160's @6000 straight through 6500 before dropping off. Stock 1.8L cams,
built motor. We'll see if it idles or not.



Kurt Summers '91 Silver with hi-comp 1929cc motor
NOT ALL HORSEPOWER IS CREATED EQUAL... STAY TUNED
miataclubs.com/1929cc

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Kurt Summers <(email redacted)>


DAMN! Oh well, I guess I'll just go install the bigger brakes that came in
today's mail instead. IMHO, my setup currently has *too* much throttle
input sensitivity coupled with *too* much low RPM torque. Maybe I can find
a happy medium somewhere in between on the cam settings to get rid of some
of the lurching with mild throttle input.

Kurt


At 05:46 PM 9/28/99 EDT, you wrote:
>
>Been there. I found the high rpm HP gain (from 165 to 181, 6000 rpm+)
wasn't
>worth the poor idle quality or the loss of torque from 2000-4000. I just
>leave mine set for torque now, much more fun to drive. Hopefully with my new
>intake cam I can experience both worlds, we'll see.
>
>-Randy
>
><< Would not try this with a *charged engine, but I am going to try -10 INT
> and -2 EXH in the next couple of days. Desktop dyno says it will drop 2000
> RPM torque from 125 to 118 and shift the HP curve up from 149 @ 6000 to mid
> 160's @6000 straight through 6500 before dropping off. Stock 1.8L cams,
> built motor. We'll see if it idles or not. >>
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)


Been there. I found the high rpm HP gain (from 165 to 181, 6000 rpm+) wasn't
worth the poor idle quality or the loss of torque from 2000-4000. I just
leave mine set for torque now, much more fun to drive. Hopefully with my new
intake cam I can experience both worlds, we'll see.

-Randy

<< Would not try this with a *charged engine, but I am going to try -10 INT
and -2 EXH in the next couple of days. Desktop dyno says it will drop 2000
RPM torque from 125 to 118 and shift the HP curve up from 149 @ 6000 to mid
160's @6000 straight through 6500 before dropping off. Stock 1.8L cams,
built motor. We'll see if it idles or not. >>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)


In a message dated 09/27/1999 6:40:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
(email redacted) writes:

<<
Gibb got an extra 10 hp on his Autorotor when he installed headers by Bob
Boing (sp?). I believe they are 4 into 1. I have no idea where to get a set
but if you find some please tell me.

Tom >>

Well.....a lot of the things that Mazda Comp sells are Bob's designs. As far
as I know, they sell an uncoated version of the headers I used on my
1.6.....and I'm still waiting for my new 1.8 headers.....:)

Gibb Phenegar

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)


In a message dated 09/27/1999 7:01:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
(email redacted) writes:

<<
IIRC, that was a header designed by Lester Seal (Apex) for Bob Boig,
and actually gave Gibb about a 15 hp bump. Gibb had said it wouldn't do
much good unless your car is pushing over 200hp. - Beau
>>

Actually, Bob designed them and Les installed them ( no mean feat!). They are
tuned to work over 6k and man do they flow!

Gibb

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)


In a message dated 09/28/1999 11:43:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
(email redacted) writes:

<<
This brings me to a question. Could a set of headers be designed that
flatten out the torque curve of a N/A 1.8 in the higher rpms? Given
"standard" bolt on mods, (and a legal exhaust) I'd like to see something
that makes the engine rev a little nicer, keeping the torque curve from nose
diving so much. It looks to me that most of the headers on the market
complement the normal Miata torque curve by enhancing mid-range torque. Are
there any other designs out there?
>>

Yep! They're out there, and hopefully will be on my NA 1.8 SOON!!! I'll let
you know what the numbers look like when I get it on the dyno.

Gibb