Miatapower List Archive

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Daniel Godelfer" <(email redacted)>

Check the link below. My friend is on this forum and told me about =
this. Scroll down and you will find what I am talking about.

sr20deforum.com/NonCGI/Forum10/HTML/000381.html

Suppose to be for a street car, but seems impractical to me. They move =
the battery to the back (not bad idea as we have that stock), but all of =
that manifold pluming must make it hot as hell under the hood. Seems =
easy to crack.

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Daniel Godelfer" <(email redacted)>

Scroll down till you get to the 2nd manifold.... Forgot to mention =
that.
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Daniel Godelfer=20
To: (email redacted)=20
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 2:01 PM
Subject: Tubular Manifold from Hell!!! (NMC)


Check the link below. My friend is on this forum and told me =
about this. Scroll down and you will find what I am talking about.

sr20deforum.com/NonCGI/Forum10/HTML/000381.html

Suppose to be for a street car, but seems impractical to me. They =
move the battery to the back (not bad idea as we have that stock), but =
all of that manifold pluming must make it hot as hell under the hood. =
Seems easy to crack.

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "ER" <(email redacted)>

Ok, I got the 1st gen Mitsu BOV and spent a good afternoon trying to fit =
the bugger on my system. I have an Aerodyne System and like the BEGI =
system the original BOV location is a pita to work with. My problem is =
with the flange adapter "wings" are hitting other parts of the engine =
which won't allow me to line up the hoses. Does anyone have this =
problem? How do I make this thing fit without relocating the BOV? Should =
I just send this thing back and just get a different one?=20

Erwin
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Daniel Godelfer=20
To: (email redacted)=20
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 3:01 PM
Subject: Tubular Manifold from Hell!!! (NMC)


Check the link below. My friend is on this forum and told me =
about this. Scroll down and you will find what I am talking about.

sr20deforum.com/NonCGI/Forum10/HTML/000381.html

Suppose to be for a street car, but seems impractical to me. They =
move the battery to the back (not bad idea as we have that stock), but =
all of that manifold pluming must make it hot as hell under the hood. =
Seems easy to crack.

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Daniel Godelfer" <(email redacted)>

Looks like the Nissan guys did not pay their bill on the webpage. I =
will re post later when They paid their bill. =20

BTW the manifold went all the way to where the battery is and put the =
turbo there. It is just plain nuts. =20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: David Bennett=20
To: Daniel Godelfer=20
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 11:05 PM
Subject: Re: Tubular Manifold from Hell!!! (NMC)


I've tried and I've tried, but I can't get that site to respond. I =
keep timing out. Any suggestions?=20
Daniel Godelfer wrote:=20

Check the link below. My friend is on this forum and told me =
about this. Scroll down and you will find what I am talking about. =
sr20deforum.com/NonCGI/Forum10/HTML/000381.html Suppose to be =
for a street car, but seems impractical to me. They move the battery to =
the back (not bad idea as we have that stock), but all of that manifold =
pluming must make it hot as hell under the hood. Seems easy to crack.

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Espen Tandberg" <(email redacted)>


This manifold isn't too bad either:

datsuns.com/projects/1200/engine1(1-01).jpg

datsuns.com/projects/1200/engine_assy1(1-01).jpg

datsuns.com/projects/1200/exh-manifold/near-complete-1.jpg

datsuns.com/projects/1200/exh-manifold/near-complete-2.jpg

datsuns.com/projects/1200/exh-manifold/assembly-1.jpg

- Espen

-----Original Message-----
From: (email redacted)
[mailto:(email redacted)] On Behalf Of Daniel Godelfer
Sent: 27. august 2001 21:02
To: (email redacted)
Subject: Tubular Manifold from Hell!!! (NMC)


Check the link below. My friend is on this forum and told me about
this. Scroll down and you will find what I am talking about.

sr20deforum.com/NonCGI/Forum10/HTML/000381.html

Suppose to be for a street car, but seems impractical to me. They move
the battery to the back (not bad idea as we have that stock), but all of
that manifold pluming must make it hot as hell under the hood. Seems
easy to crack.

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Brad Franks <(email redacted)>


Looking at this manifold got me wondering about some things. Things that
actually would apply to both a tubular turbo manifold as well as an NA
manifold/header.

Designers go to great lengths to tune runner length for equalized pressure
behind the exhaust port on all four cylinders. You see headers that look
like this (linked below), what some refer to as a nest of snakes. In this
particular design and a number of other Turbo and NA designs, you have some
runners that are straight and others that are curved, solely relying on the
principle of equalized length.

My question is this: In the #1 cylinder runner in these pictures you can see
that while it is the same length, it is significantly convoluted as compared
to the #4 runner which is almost a straight shot to the turbo flange.
Wouldn't the curved #1 runner pose more air resistance than the #4 runner?
Wouldn't that #1 cylinder then loose the natural tendency to move air and
create more back pressure than #4? Plus, with the turbo being on the other
end of this, the air in #1 makes significantly more contact with the runner
which will absorb more heat. As I've heard in the past, keeping the heat up
in the exhaust is the key to getting a turbo to spin, more heat means more
energy and higher exhaust speeds through the system to the turbo.

The same would apply to NA as well. Some runners are convoluted while others
are a straight shot. Even though they are all the same length, they are not
necessarily tuned to each other to provide identical flow characteristics
across all four cylinders.

I remember speaking with Rod Letcher about air flow through confined spaces
with bends. He said something like every 90 degrees worth of bend equals a
10 percent loss in flow. Wouldn't it then be prudent to calculate flow by
runner length *and* amount of bend to better tune a header for equalized
flow?

Just trying to learn...

Brad



-----Original Message-----
From: (email redacted)
[mailto:(email redacted)]On Behalf Of Espen Tandberg
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 3:30 AM
To: 'Daniel Godelfer'; (email redacted)
Subject: Re: Tubular Manifold from Hell!!! (NMC)



This manifold isn't too bad either:

datsuns.com/projects/1200/engine1(1-01).jpg

datsuns.com/projects/1200/engine_assy1(1-01).jpg

datsuns.com/projects/1200/exh-manifold/near-complete-1.jpg

datsuns.com/projects/1200/exh-manifold/near-complete-2.jpg

datsuns.com/projects/1200/exh-manifold/assembly-1.jpg

- Espen

-----Original Message-----
From: (email redacted)
[mailto:(email redacted)] On Behalf Of Daniel Godelfer
Sent: 27. august 2001 21:02
To: (email redacted)
Subject: Tubular Manifold from Hell!!! (NMC)


Check the link below. My friend is on this forum and told me about
this. Scroll down and you will find what I am talking about.

sr20deforum.com/NonCGI/Forum10/HTML/000381.html

Suppose to be for a street car, but seems impractical to me. They move
the battery to the back (not bad idea as we have that stock), but all of
that manifold pluming must make it hot as hell under the hood. Seems
easy to crack.

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Mark Peugeot <(email redacted)>



every 90 degrees is a 1% loss not 10%.

Mark


On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, Brad Franks wrote:

>
> Looking at this manifold got me wondering about some things. Things that
> actually would apply to both a tubular turbo manifold as well as an NA
> manifold/header.
>
> Designers go to great lengths to tune runner length for equalized pressure
> behind the exhaust port on all four cylinders. You see headers that look
> like this (linked below), what some refer to as a nest of snakes. In this
> particular design and a number of other Turbo and NA designs, you have some
> runners that are straight and others that are curved, solely relying on the
> principle of equalized length.
>
> My question is this: In the #1 cylinder runner in these pictures you can see
> that while it is the same length, it is significantly convoluted as compared
> to the #4 runner which is almost a straight shot to the turbo flange.
> Wouldn't the curved #1 runner pose more air resistance than the #4 runner?
> Wouldn't that #1 cylinder then loose the natural tendency to move air and
> create more back pressure than #4? Plus, with the turbo being on the other
> end of this, the air in #1 makes significantly more contact with the runner
> which will absorb more heat. As I've heard in the past, keeping the heat up
> in the exhaust is the key to getting a turbo to spin, more heat means more
> energy and higher exhaust speeds through the system to the turbo.
>
> The same would apply to NA as well. Some runners are convoluted while others
> are a straight shot. Even though they are all the same length, they are not
> necessarily tuned to each other to provide identical flow characteristics
> across all four cylinders.
>
> I remember speaking with Rod Letcher about air flow through confined spaces
> with bends. He said something like every 90 degrees worth of bend equals a
> 10 percent loss in flow. Wouldn't it then be prudent to calculate flow by
> runner length *and* amount of bend to better tune a header for equalized
> flow?
>
> Just trying to learn...
>
> Brad
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: (email redacted)
> [mailto:(email redacted)]On Behalf Of Espen Tandberg
> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 3:30 AM
> To: 'Daniel Godelfer'; (email redacted)
> Subject: Re: Tubular Manifold from Hell!!! (NMC)
>
>
>
> This manifold isn't too bad either:
>
> datsuns.com/projects/1200/engine1(1-01).jpg
>
> datsuns.com/projects/1200/engine_assy1(1-01).jpg
>
> datsuns.com/projects/1200/exh-manifold/near-complete-1.jpg
>
> datsuns.com/projects/1200/exh-manifold/near-complete-2.jpg
>
> datsuns.com/projects/1200/exh-manifold/assembly-1.jpg
>
> - Espen
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: (email redacted)
> [mailto:(email redacted)] On Behalf Of Daniel Godelfer
> Sent: 27. august 2001 21:02
> To: (email redacted)
> Subject: Tubular Manifold from Hell!!! (NMC)
>
>
> Check the link below. My friend is on this forum and told me about
> this. Scroll down and you will find what I am talking about.
>
> sr20deforum.com/NonCGI/Forum10/HTML/000381.html
>
> Suppose to be for a street car, but seems impractical to me. They move
> the battery to the back (not bad idea as we have that stock), but all of
> that manifold pluming must make it hot as hell under the hood. Seems
> easy to crack.
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Martin Eby <(email redacted)>


It isn't quite that simple. It depends on the ratio of the radius of the
turn to the radius of the pipe and the velocity of the gasses. I can
believe that it is as low as 1% in a well made tubular header, but I think
it will be considerably more than that for a square turn in a small manifold.

Martin -- who barely remembers the fluid flow courses he took 25 years ago.

At 12:05 PM 8/28/01 -0700, Mark Peugeot wrote:
>
>
>every 90 degrees is a 1% loss not 10%.
>
>Mark


Martin S. Eby
Source Code Systems, Inc.
(email redacted)
316.220.4090
316.220.4089(fax)
1040 N Waco
Wichita KS 67203

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Mark Peugeot <(email redacted)>



We are talking smooth radius header bends... I agree that other designs
will flow significantly less.

Mark


On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, Martin Eby wrote:

>
> It isn't quite that simple. It depends on the ratio of the radius of the
> turn to the radius of the pipe and the velocity of the gasses. I can
> believe that it is as low as 1% in a well made tubular header, but I think
> it will be considerably more than that for a square turn in a small manifold.
>
> Martin -- who barely remembers the fluid flow courses he took 25 years ago.
>
> At 12:05 PM 8/28/01 -0700, Mark Peugeot wrote:
> >
> >
> >every 90 degrees is a 1% loss not 10%.
> >
> >Mark
>
>
> Martin S. Eby
> Source Code Systems, Inc.
> (email redacted)
> 316.220.4090
> 316.220.4089(fax)
> 1040 N Waco
> Wichita KS 67203
>