Miatapower List Archive

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)

Chris,

You may want to check out the test and tune session with Boston BMW

boston-bmwcca.org/events/2004/646.asp

I agree with Mel.

Sign up for a school, get the correct equipment on the car.

Another local club that runs quite a few Cobra replicas and is less BMW
oriented (not that there's anything wrong with that) :)
COM Sports Car Club Home Page (they will insist on arm restraints for a
convertible and a drivers suite for your class)

There is also
SCDA

Have an instructor drive your car the first few laps.

By the end of the day you will have a good idea what needs to be done to the
car.

Les
apexautoeng.com

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)

It's different when driving. You won't feel sick. :)
I went to a Miata Auto-X once and took a spin in a participants turbo porche.
I got a bit motion sick in that approx 65sec run! But I'll get used to it I'm
sure.

Les
apexautoeng.com

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "William Howell" <(email redacted)>

That is completely true. I can drive my car around a track all day long, but
when I went for a 20 minute session in a Spec RX7, I was about to toss my lunch
on the dash at the end of the session! Same goes for doing multiple runs in
high HP cars at autocrosses.

Many instructors I have talked to say they battle the same ailment. Some
people get sick, some don't. I think it's similar to flying.

Billy


Quoting (email redacted):

> It's different when driving. You won't feel sick. :)
> I went to a Miata Auto-X once and took a spin in a participants turbo porche.
>
> I got a bit motion sick in that approx 65sec run! But I'll get used to it I'm
>
> sure.
>
> Les
> apexautoeng.com
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Chris P" <(email redacted)>

Tell me about the flying thing. I have 300 flight hours and never got sick
until I started to do aerobatics on a hot little Decathlon. First time was
"ok" second time I made it through 3 dutch rolls, 2 loops, and half a
hammerhead before the stomach took over... it was no fun as the plane was
momentarily tumbling to the ground with me clutching the stomach and mouth
and trying to tell the guy in back to take it without ltting anything more
than words coming out. (It was a new plane worth over $100k and I was TOLD
to "make sure it stays clean". He took us back but needed me to call off
the airspeed by tens on approach which I could barely do that. Funny thing
is, as SOON as we stopped I was fine and wanted to go back up.

He was older guy with thousands of hours and did say I would get used to it.
Someday I'll go finish the course.

Anyway thanks for all the good advice, I'll be saving these posts for
reference. I also still wouldn't mind someone checking out the handling on
this car, or go to auto-x with me to see. I definately have no frame of
reference beyong street performance. With the turbo setup, I was getting
very confident. Thats all been thrown off now and there is no confidence.
One issue was the stock sways and am adding a FM front at the suggestion of
Martin Wilson at Panache www.v8miata.com who races his at the track
regularly. In fact he sent me a cd with some footage from "Laguna Seca"
whatever that is, looks cool and that V8 winding up on the straights sure
sounds cool.

I def can relate to the power issue vs skill. A neighbor races a mint '94
RS911 and gets beat by one guy in basically a stock 100hp Miata. he was
talking about his great brakes allowing him to drive deep into turns, and
hios great torque powering out, but that Miata just stays on the power all
the way through and lap by lap, little by little, gets past him. So he
bought a Miata and is doing it over as a Spec Miata.

Anyway once the car is together, and I'll get Les to align it, then see what
the auto-x schedules look like form the various links in these posts.

Thx,
Chris



----- Original Message -----
From: "William Howell" <(email redacted)>
To: <(email redacted)>
Cc: <(email redacted)>
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed


> That is completely true. I can drive my car around a track all day long,
but
> when I went for a 20 minute session in a Spec RX7, I was about to toss my
lunch
> on the dash at the end of the session! Same goes for doing multiple runs
in
> high HP cars at autocrosses.
>
> Many instructors I have talked to say they battle the same ailment. Some
> people get sick, some don't. I think it's similar to flying.
>
> Billy
>
>
> Quoting (email redacted):
>
> > It's different when driving. You won't feel sick. :)
> > I went to a Miata Auto-X once and took a spin in a participants turbo
porche.
> >
> > I got a bit motion sick in that approx 65sec run! But I'll get used to
it I'm
> >
> > sure.
> >
> > Les
> > apexautoeng.com
> >
>
>
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Ian McCloghrie <(email redacted)>

On Feb 25, 2004 "Larry Alster" wrote:
> It would be 2" to the top of the helmet. The technical measurement =
> would be 2" under a line drawn from the top of the rollbar to the top of =
> the windshield frame.

Some people, paranoid about windshield collapses, draw a line from the
top of the rollbar to the front/top of the head.

--Ian

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)


Couple of quick thoughts:

Put a yard stick across the rollbar to the windshield frame and measure 2"
below that. I am going to do Mel's seat mod (once I get the info!) for the
same reason, I'm 6'3". This is the only reason I have NOT bought
harnesses, I would be hosed in a rollover until I get the seat lowered (see
last note).

SFI helmets are (IIRC) every 5 years, and you can usually use 2 batches
back.. I.E. 95 and newer is generally accepted now, but each DE/track has
their own requirements. Drag racing has different requirements than road
track, generally (for us non-pros) it's less strict.

Belts are generally 5 year lifespan, IIRC as well.. so at minimum replace
them every 5 years.. I think there is an SCCA erg for that, right guys?

Ditto on used, for $115 for a set? Buy new. I bought a set of Schrothe
Ralleye4's for my Saturn, street legal 2" 4 point, and loved them. IIRC
$180 for the pair.

Street Legal, 3" webbing is NOT legal here in Michigan, probably not
elsewhere too.. 2" is.. so if you plan on using them on the street,
something to think about. I'd rather run illegal 3's than legal 2's. ;)

DE's can be had for $150 or less, if you can find someone willing to rent
the track themselves.. Personally paying $250 for a day of track is a bit
nutty, but I've been spoiled by years of Gingerman for $100-125 I guess.
If I had more time, I'd setup track days with only enough profit I drive
for free... just takes time and up-front money.

In reference to line from head to bar vs. windshield to bar.. this is the
perfect argument for the head to bar measurement:
harddog.com/images/crash/crash_m2sport6.gif

No way I'd make it under that line, tho.

One last thought, I would NEVER use a harness without a rollbar, if you
flip you are screwed.. with 3 point stock belts you can flop to the side, a
4 point turns you into a nice lawn dart with your head being the highest
point and a perfect turf-catcher.

All IMNSHO, YMMV, etc etc.

Wallyman




"Will Martins"
<will-lists@miata To: "Chris P" <(email redacted)>, <(email redacted)>
.tv> cc:
Subject: Re: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed
02/25/2004 07:05
PM






G-Force 6-point camlock harnesses at ~$115/ea from racerwholesale.com are
probably the best bang/buck around. They also sell G-Force arm restraints
for $20. I prefer the M&R arm restraints (~$30) which have velcro on the
arm bands, making them easier to put on & adjust than the G-Force's
double-hoop & pull tab system. Actually, the best bang/buck would probably
be the G-Force L&L harnesses, but personally I'd rather spend the extra $40
for a camlock than deal with the latches.

I would be wary of used harnesses, especially those coming out of an open
car (Miata). Sun, sweat, soil, and stress degrade the strength of the
belts, which should be replaced every few years. Belts do 'expire', but
most clubs would never check the dates (which are sewn into the belts). I
forget what the SFI standard is (maybe 2 years?), but I would recommend
keeping the belts in good condition and replacing old ones. To get the
most life out of the belts, take them out of the car and store out of
sunlight when not in use.

I've had 2 sets of G-Force 6-point belts between my 2 Miatas for about 2
1/2 years now. They were black, but the sun has faded & dried them and
left them grey in some spots. I plan on replacing or rewebbing these belts
before this season starts. Either that, or one of the belts will get
regulated to auto-x only duty. Safety first!

G-Force also makes reasonably-priced SA approved helments. The "Pro Force
1" is $250. Best advice is to try them out locally and see what fits you
best. HMS Motorsports in Peabody, MA stocks G-Force, Bieffe, Bell and
another brand. I'm leaning toward a Bieffe helmet, which is significantly
more expensive, but I don't plan on skimping when it comes to protecting my
skull & its contents. Again, safety first!

Also, I see you are in New England. Track events seem to be getting more
and more popular around here, and club events at NHIS & Lime Rock sell out
quickly. I would look into the clubs that travel to Watkins Glen, Mosport,
VIR, Summit, Mt Tremblant, etc., and join them for their 'away' events. In
my experience, we get about 4 25-30 minute run sessions/day locally. At
the away events, I've seen open track sessions all day long. That's 8
hours, baby!

Welcome to the addiction...

- Will


-----
From: Chris P
To: Will Martins ; (email redacted)
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed

Thanks guys for all the info. I'm saving all the posts...

Good source and product name for retraints? Helmet source? Thx

Oh yeah, do the retraints have a expiration date (in case I find some
used, maybe someone wants to change color or something)

Thx,
Chris

----- Original Message -----
From: Will Martins
To: Chris P ; (email redacted)
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 5:15 PM
Subject: Re: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed

2" to the helmet. Don't forget to install some good SFI rollbar padding
too. Also, when buying restraints, make sure you get a set (harnesses &
arm restraints) for your instructor too. Not only required, but usually
appreciated!

- Will


----- Original Message -----
From: Chris P
To: (email redacted) ; Tim South
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed

I'd probably have to lower my seat like Mel did. Is that 2" to the
helmet, or to the persons actual head (assuming he has one)...?


----- Original Message -----
From: Tim South
To: Chris P ; mel hoagland ; (email redacted)
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed

Chris,

Before purhasing harnesses, make sure you have enough head clearance
below the roll bar. The accepted standard seems to be 2".

Track Events usually cost from $275-$350 per weekend (entry fee only).
Gas, hotels, travel, etc. pushes the total over $500 at least. At some
of the Porsche Club races they have lapping days in conjunction with
race weekends and those are very affordable, usually around $100.
However, some experience at that respective track and other overall
track experience is required to enter these as there are no instructors.

Don't a few other V8 guys track their cars? Get some spring rate/shock
combo ideas from them and go from there.

----- Original Message -----
From: Chris P
To: mel hoagland ; (email redacted)
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed

Thats all good information, thanks. Yes it's got a V8 with positive
displacement whipplecharger, so turning down the power is not easy.
That's why I was hoping for someone experienced to drive it a few laps
and give some feedback on oversteer/understeer, etc etc. I'm sure I'll
be doing some auto-x, and in fact I'm even intimidated by that. The
main reason for this is to get the suspension evaluated and fixed if
need be, and then later so I can learn how to drive. I dont have a lot
of funds. I would bet auto-x is relatively affordable, and track
participation is going to require a lot more resources. Can you give me
any idea on costs? How much is a helpmet for example and how much for
restraints? Do they have expiration dates? Is it possible to get the
car on a track with an experienced driver on an off day to se how the
suspension works or doesnt work?

As far as the pads, they are hawk,

1 Set Hawk HB100-F480 Pads

1 Set Hawk HB158-F515 Pads

They wee reccommended as a street/light
comp pad that would get me by without
having to swap them and without beating up
on the rotors.

Like I said, I just intially would like
ton get the car checked out, and get a
taste of what its like at 100mph in turns
or whatever.

I went to a Miata Auto-X once and took a
spin in a participants turbo porche. I got
a bit motion sick in that approx 65sec
run! But I'll get used to it I'm sure.

Chris








----- Original Message -----
From: mel hoagland
To: (email redacted)
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 9:10 AM
Subject: Re: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed

Chris,

I recommend getting involved in autocross events before you take your
car out on the track, to get the true feel of the handling in a safe
situation. Local for you would be some of the BMWCCA events -
www.boston-bmwcca.org. Go to events. You will need a Snell 95 or
better helmet and definitely a restraint system on both seats - 5 or 6
point. I wouldn't drive the car on the street without the harnesses. I
also wouldn't use the track for suspension evaluation, especially with
that much power on hand. Is this the V8? Can you reduce the power for
your first few times on the track? 400 lb/ft could prove to be
dangerous, especially if you haven't got the suspension all worked
out. Spec Miatas, with their stock power levels, keep up with me and
can sometimes pass me, with Wheezy's outrageous power. Driving on a
race track, other than dragstrips and NASCAR, is not about raw power,
but rather about handling, and with that much power, you could find
yourself in a lot of trouble very quickly. Remember, in real racing
(not NASCAR), the tracks have off-camber turns, elevation changes and
lots of surprises. Combine those conditions with the total
unpredictability of other drivers, and you've got to get your handling
to be as predictable as possible. The brakes you have are a good
thing, but make sure you've got good, high-temp pads (my favorites are
Carbotech Panther Plus's), and remember - they're for occasional use
only - they just slow you down.

If you attend one of the events I instruct at, I'd be glad to be your
instructor, but we won't be doing a lot of high speed runs - you'll
probably be plenty happy with the speeds anyway - the first time on a
track is usually damn intimidating.

Remember - above all, HAVE FUN.

Mel

...........................o~`o
WHEEZY
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris P
To: (email redacted) ; mel hoagland
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 5:32 PM
Subject: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed

hey mel (and anyone else in N.E.),

this year my car will finally have at least a decent
suspension/brakes combo. i also have a roll bar too. is there a track
you can meet me at and take a couple laps to evaluate my car in terms
of handling? i want to start the track thing, and have no baseline
experience to judge even the basic handling situation. i also know
nothing about tracks, track times, rules, etc. i do know my car has
400lbs of torque at 2000rpm. and (will be) 375whp at 4500rpm.

the brakes are 11" Panacahe big brake kit all the way around so at
leats it will stop good.

also, do i need a restraint harness system?

thx,
chris



----- Original Message -----
From: mel hoagland
To: Miata Power List
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 9:35 AM
Subject: Re: Missing person

Always causing trouble, ain'tcha, Crispy?

Mel

...........................o~`o
WHEEZY
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris P
To: Jean-Marie Anthonis ; Miata Power List
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: Missing person

He is sailing the Carribean with Eric Quimby and Russ Rudez... he
sends many thanks!

LOL

(just joking, i saw his quick response already)



----- Original Message -----
From: Jean-Marie Anthonis
To: Miata Power List
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 2:09 AM
Subject: Missing person

Does anybody of you know what happened with Edward Dudlik? He
still owes me some money for goods that he never sent to me.
Haven't been able to get any reply to my emails either.

Jm

______________________
mx-5club.be/
users.skynet.be/mx5turbo/

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Steve Patterson <(email redacted)>

SCCA now has a 2 year rule on SFI belts and 4 years for FIA belts.
Steve


(email redacted) wrote:

>Couple of quick thoughts:
>
>Put a yard stick across the rollbar to the windshield frame and measure 2"
>below that. I am going to do Mel's seat mod (once I get the info!) for the
>same reason, I'm 6'3". This is the only reason I have NOT bought
>harnesses, I would be hosed in a rollover until I get the seat lowered (see
>last note).
>
>SFI helmets are (IIRC) every 5 years, and you can usually use 2 batches
>back.. I.E. 95 and newer is generally accepted now, but each DE/track has
>their own requirements. Drag racing has different requirements than road
>track, generally (for us non-pros) it's less strict.
>
>Belts are generally 5 year lifespan, IIRC as well.. so at minimum replace
>them every 5 years.. I think there is an SCCA erg for that, right guys?
>
>Ditto on used, for $115 for a set? Buy new. I bought a set of Schrothe
>Ralleye4's for my Saturn, street legal 2" 4 point, and loved them. IIRC
>$180 for the pair.
>
>Street Legal, 3" webbing is NOT legal here in Michigan, probably not
>elsewhere too.. 2" is.. so if you plan on using them on the street,
>something to think about. I'd rather run illegal 3's than legal 2's. ;)
>
>DE's can be had for $150 or less, if you can find someone willing to rent
>the track themselves.. Personally paying $250 for a day of track is a bit
>nutty, but I've been spoiled by years of Gingerman for $100-125 I guess.
>If I had more time, I'd setup track days with only enough profit I drive
>for free... just takes time and up-front money.
>
>In reference to line from head to bar vs. windshield to bar.. this is the
>perfect argument for the head to bar measurement:
>harddog.com/images/crash/crash_m2sport6.gif
>
>No way I'd make it under that line, tho.
>
>One last thought, I would NEVER use a harness without a rollbar, if you
>flip you are screwed.. with 3 point stock belts you can flop to the side, a
>4 point turns you into a nice lawn dart with your head being the highest
>point and a perfect turf-catcher.
>
>All IMNSHO, YMMV, etc etc.
>
>Wallyman
>
>
>
>
> "Will Martins"
> <will-lists@miata To: "Chris P" <(email redacted)>, <(email redacted)>
> .tv> cc:
> Subject: Re: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed
> 02/25/2004 07:05
> PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>G-Force 6-point camlock harnesses at ~$115/ea from racerwholesale.com are
>probably the best bang/buck around. They also sell G-Force arm restraints
>for $20. I prefer the M&R arm restraints (~$30) which have velcro on the
>arm bands, making them easier to put on & adjust than the G-Force's
>double-hoop & pull tab system. Actually, the best bang/buck would probably
>be the G-Force L&L harnesses, but personally I'd rather spend the extra $40
>for a camlock than deal with the latches.
>
>I would be wary of used harnesses, especially those coming out of an open
>car (Miata). Sun, sweat, soil, and stress degrade the strength of the
>belts, which should be replaced every few years. Belts do 'expire', but
>most clubs would never check the dates (which are sewn into the belts). I
>forget what the SFI standard is (maybe 2 years?), but I would recommend
>keeping the belts in good condition and replacing old ones. To get the
>most life out of the belts, take them out of the car and store out of
>sunlight when not in use.
>
>I've had 2 sets of G-Force 6-point belts between my 2 Miatas for about 2
>1/2 years now. They were black, but the sun has faded & dried them and
>left them grey in some spots. I plan on replacing or rewebbing these belts
>before this season starts. Either that, or one of the belts will get
>regulated to auto-x only duty. Safety first!
>
>G-Force also makes reasonably-priced SA approved helments. The "Pro Force
>1" is $250. Best advice is to try them out locally and see what fits you
>best. HMS Motorsports in Peabody, MA stocks G-Force, Bieffe, Bell and
>another brand. I'm leaning toward a Bieffe helmet, which is significantly
>more expensive, but I don't plan on skimping when it comes to protecting my
>skull & its contents. Again, safety first!
>
>Also, I see you are in New England. Track events seem to be getting more
>and more popular around here, and club events at NHIS & Lime Rock sell out
>quickly. I would look into the clubs that travel to Watkins Glen, Mosport,
>VIR, Summit, Mt Tremblant, etc., and join them for their 'away' events. In
>my experience, we get about 4 25-30 minute run sessions/day locally. At
>the away events, I've seen open track sessions all day long. That's 8
>hours, baby!
>
>Welcome to the addiction...
>
> - Will
>
>
>-----
> From: Chris P
> To: Will Martins ; (email redacted)
> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 5:45 PM
> Subject: Re: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed
>
> Thanks guys for all the info. I'm saving all the posts...
>
> Good source and product name for retraints? Helmet source? Thx
>
> Oh yeah, do the retraints have a expiration date (in case I find some
> used, maybe someone wants to change color or something)
>
> Thx,
> Chris
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Will Martins
> To: Chris P ; (email redacted)
> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 5:15 PM
> Subject: Re: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed
>
> 2" to the helmet. Don't forget to install some good SFI rollbar padding
> too. Also, when buying restraints, make sure you get a set (harnesses &
> arm restraints) for your instructor too. Not only required, but usually
> appreciated!
>
> - Will
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Chris P
> To: (email redacted) ; Tim South
> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 4:42 PM
> Subject: Re: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed
>
> I'd probably have to lower my seat like Mel did. Is that 2" to the
> helmet, or to the persons actual head (assuming he has one)...?
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tim South
> To: Chris P ; mel hoagland ; (email redacted)
> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 3:54 PM
> Subject: Re: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed
>
> Chris,
>
> Before purhasing harnesses, make sure you have enough head clearance
> below the roll bar. The accepted standard seems to be 2".
>
> Track Events usually cost from $275-$350 per weekend (entry fee only).
> Gas, hotels, travel, etc. pushes the total over $500 at least. At some
> of the Porsche Club races they have lapping days in conjunction with
> race weekends and those are very affordable, usually around $100.
> However, some experience at that respective track and other overall
> track experience is required to enter these as there are no instructors.
>
> Don't a few other V8 guys track their cars? Get some spring rate/shock
> combo ideas from them and go from there.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Chris P
> To: mel hoagland ; (email redacted)
> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 9:42 AM
> Subject: Re: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed
>
> Thats all good information, thanks. Yes it's got a V8 with positive
> displacement whipplecharger, so turning down the power is not easy.
> That's why I was hoping for someone experienced to drive it a few laps
> and give some feedback on oversteer/understeer, etc etc. I'm sure I'll
> be doing some auto-x, and in fact I'm even intimidated by that. The
> main reason for this is to get the suspension evaluated and fixed if
> need be, and then later so I can learn how to drive. I dont have a lot
> of funds. I would bet auto-x is relatively affordable, and track
> participation is going to require a lot more resources. Can you give me
> any idea on costs? How much is a helpmet for example and how much for
> restraints? Do they have expiration dates? Is it possible to get the
> car on a track with an experienced driver on an off day to se how the
> suspension works or doesnt work?
>
>As far as the pads, they are hawk,
>
> 1 Set Hawk HB100-F480 Pads
>
> 1 Set Hawk HB158-F515 Pads
>
> They wee reccommended as a street/light
> comp pad that would get me by without
> having to swap them and without beating up
> on the rotors.
>
> Like I said, I just intially would like
> ton get the car checked out, and get a
> taste of what its like at 100mph in turns
> or whatever.
>
> I went to a Miata Auto-X once and took a
> spin in a participants turbo porche. I got
> a bit motion sick in that approx 65sec
> run! But I'll get used to it I'm sure.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: mel hoagland
> To: (email redacted)
> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 9:10 AM
> Subject: Re: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed
>
> Chris,
>
> I recommend getting involved in autocross events before you take your
> car out on the track, to get the true feel of the handling in a safe
> situation. Local for you would be some of the BMWCCA events -
> www.boston-bmwcca.org. Go to events. You will need a Snell 95 or
> better helmet and definitely a restraint system on both seats - 5 or 6
> point. I wouldn't drive the car on the street without the harnesses. I
> also wouldn't use the track for suspension evaluation, especially with
> that much power on hand. Is this the V8? Can you reduce the power for
> your first few times on the track? 400 lb/ft could prove to be
> dangerous, especially if you haven't got the suspension all worked
> out. Spec Miatas, with their stock power levels, keep up with me and
> can sometimes pass me, with Wheezy's outrageous power. Driving on a
> race track, other than dragstrips and NASCAR, is not about raw power,
> but rather about handling, and with that much power, you could find
> yourself in a lot of trouble very quickly. Remember, in real racing
> (not NASCAR), the tracks have off-camber turns, elevation changes and
> lots of surprises. Combine those conditions with the total
> unpredictability of other drivers, and you've got to get your handling
> to be as predictable as possible. The brakes you have are a good
> thing, but make sure you've got good, high-temp pads (my favorites are
> Carbotech Panther Plus's), and remember - they're for occasional use
> only - they just slow you down.
>
> If you attend one of the events I instruct at, I'd be glad to be your
> instructor, but we won't be doing a lot of high speed runs - you'll
> probably be plenty happy with the speeds anyway - the first time on a
> track is usually damn intimidating.
>
> Remember - above all, HAVE FUN.
>
> Mel
>
> ...........................o~`o
> WHEEZY
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Chris P
> To: (email redacted) ; mel hoagland
> Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 5:32 PM
> Subject: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed
>
> hey mel (and anyone else in N.E.),
>
> this year my car will finally have at least a decent
> suspension/brakes combo. i also have a roll bar too. is there a track
> you can meet me at and take a couple laps to evaluate my car in terms
> of handling? i want to start the track thing, and have no baseline
> experience to judge even the basic handling situation. i also know
> nothing about tracks, track times, rules, etc. i do know my car has
> 400lbs of torque at 2000rpm. and (will be) 375whp at 4500rpm.
>
> the brakes are 11" Panacahe big brake kit all the way around so at
> leats it will stop good.
>
> also, do i need a restraint harness system?
>
> thx,
> chris
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: mel hoagland
> To: Miata Power List
> Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 9:35 AM
> Subject: Re: Missing person
>
> Always causing trouble, ain'tcha, Crispy?
>
> Mel
>
> ...........................o~`o
> WHEEZY
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Chris P
> To: Jean-Marie Anthonis ; Miata Power List
> Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 9:25 AM
> Subject: Re: Missing person
>
> He is sailing the Carribean with Eric Quimby and Russ Rudez... he
> sends many thanks!
>
> LOL
>
> (just joking, i saw his quick response already)
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jean-Marie Anthonis
> To: Miata Power List
> Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 2:09 AM
> Subject: Missing person
>
> Does anybody of you know what happened with Edward Dudlik? He
> still owes me some money for goods that he never sent to me.
> Haven't been able to get any reply to my emails either.
>
> Jm
>
> ______________________
> mx-5club.be/
> users.skynet.be/mx5turbo/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Ian McCloghrie <(email redacted)>

On Feb 26, 2004 (email redacted) wrote:
> DE's can be had for $150 or less, if you can find someone willing to rent
> the track themselves.. Personally paying $250 for a day of track is a bit

Heh. This varies widely, depending on the track. $300/day is average
for Laguna Seca these days.

--Ian

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)


Well, Gingerman is no Laguna Seca. ;) Not by a long shot.

Very true, I would bet the Midwest ones around here could be had in the
<$200 range. Blackhawk, Mid-Ohio, Gingerman, Grattan, Puttnam,
Mid-america... I can probably hit any of those for under 2 bills, less if
the track is rented by a group of drivers and not a company making profit.
The thing that boggles my mind is the Lexington dudes shelling out, what,
$275? for Puttnam when I am SURE it could be done far cheaper on your own..
again, I am probably just spoiled by years of cheap Gingerman time. In
order to save cash, you need time to set up that kind of event, and if I
had more time, I certainly would try.. Eric (a Detroit guy) does Grattan,
and last year was $108 each, total of <40 cars & bikes in 3 groups... I was
sooo sick of driving by the end of the day... :) I'm in again for this
years on that too.. should be fun with the Sub.

Wallyman




Ian McCloghrie
<(email redacted)> To: (email redacted)
cc: "Will Martins" <(email redacted)>, (email redacted),
02/26/2004 12:09 (email redacted)
PM Subject: Re: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed
Please respond to
ian






On Feb 26, 2004 (email redacted) wrote:
> DE's can be had for $150 or less, if you can find someone willing to rent
> the track themselves.. Personally paying $250 for a day of track is a bit

Heh. This varies widely, depending on the track. $300/day is average
for Laguna Seca these days.

--Ian

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "mel hoagland" <(email redacted)>

Yeah - and some of the best-run events, by the BMWCCA Boston chapter, avera=
ge $125 a day. COM was, until recently, charging as little as $90.

Mel

...........................o~`o
WHEEZY

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Ian McCloghrie=20
To: (email redacted)=20
Cc: Will Martins ; (email redacted) ; (email redacted)=20
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed


On Feb 26, 2004 (email redacted) wrote:
> DE's can be had for $150 or less, if you can find someone willing to re=
nt
> the track themselves.. Personally paying $250 for a day of track is a b=
it

Heh. This varies widely, depending on the track. $300/day is average
for Laguna Seca these days.

--Ian

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Tom Reynolds" <(email redacted)>

Here open lapping runs about $65/day for the private groups of 20,
$100/day with the SCCA, and $150/day for SCCA with instruction. While
our little track is nice, it's no Laguna Seca.



Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: mel hoagland [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 10:18 AM
To: (email redacted)
Subject: Re: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed

Yeah - and some of the best-run events, by the BMWCCA Boston chapter,
average $125 a day. COM was, until recently, charging as little as $90.

Mel

...........................o~`o
WHEEZY
----- Original Message -----
From: Ian McCloghrie <mailto:(email redacted)>
To: (email redacted)
Cc: Will Martins <mailto:(email redacted)> ; (email redacted) ;
(email redacted)
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed

On Feb 26, 2004 (email redacted) wrote:
> DE's can be had for $150 or less, if you can find someone willing to
rent
> the track themselves.. Personally paying $250 for a day of track is a
bit

Heh. This varies widely, depending on the track. $300/day is average
for Laguna Seca these days.

--Ian

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Bill Cardell <(email redacted)>

But did they let the cars and bikes run together? *That's* when it's fun.

Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad)
(email redacted)
Flyin' Miata
1-800-359-6957 (sales only)
970-242-3800 (tech support)
flyinmiata.com
flyinprotege.com

-----Original Message-----
From: (email redacted) [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 10:16 AM
To: (email redacted)
Cc: (email redacted); (email redacted); (email redacted)
Subject: Re: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed



Well, Gingerman is no Laguna Seca. ;) Not by a long shot.

Very true, I would bet the Midwest ones around here could be had in the
<$200 range. Blackhawk, Mid-Ohio, Gingerman, Grattan, Puttnam,
Mid-america... I can probably hit any of those for under 2 bills, less if
the track is rented by a group of drivers and not a company making profit.
The thing that boggles my mind is the Lexington dudes shelling out, what,
$275? for Puttnam when I am SURE it could be done far cheaper on your own..
again, I am probably just spoiled by years of cheap Gingerman time. In
order to save cash, you need time to set up that kind of event, and if I
had more time, I certainly would try.. Eric (a Detroit guy) does Grattan,
and last year was $108 each, total of <40 cars & bikes in 3 groups... I was
sooo sick of driving by the end of the day... :) I'm in again for this
years on that too.. should be fun with the Sub.

Wallyman





Ian McCloghrie

<(email redacted)> To:
(email redacted)

cc: "Will Martins"
<(email redacted)>, (email redacted),
02/26/2004 12:09 (email redacted)

PM Subject: Re: Tracking the
car - suspension eval needed
Please respond to

ian









On Feb 26, 2004 (email redacted) wrote:
> DE's can be had for $150 or less, if you can find someone willing to rent
> the track themselves.. Personally paying $250 for a day of track is a bit

Heh. This varies widely, depending on the track. $300/day is average
for Laguna Seca these days.

--Ian

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Bill Bowser" <(email redacted)>

A couple of years ago I checked with Mid Ohio to find out what it cost to r=
ent the track for a day. It was $6,000 with no extras like corner workers,=
ambulance, etc.

Bil Bowser
Cincinnati
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Tom Reynolds=20
To: (email redacted)=20
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 12:22 PM
Subject: RE: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed


Here open lapping runs about $65/day for the private groups of 20, $100/d=
ay with the SCCA, and $150/day for SCCA with instruction. While our little =
track is nice, it's no Laguna Seca.

=20=20=20

=20=20=20

=20=20=20

Tom

=20=20=20

-----Original Message-----
From: mel hoagland [mailto:(email redacted)]=20
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 10:18 AM
To: (email redacted)
Subject: Re: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed

=20=20=20

Yeah - and some of the best-run events, by the BMWCCA Boston chapter, ave=
rage $125 a day. COM was, until recently, charging as little as $90.

=20=20=20

Mel


...........................o~`o
WHEEZY

----- Original Message -----=20

From: Ian McCloghrie=20

To: (email redacted)=20

Cc: Will Martins ; (email redacted) ; (email redacted)=20

Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 12:09 PM

Subject: Re: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed

=20=20=20=20=20

On Feb 26, 2004 (email redacted) wrote:
> DE's can be had for $150 or less, if you can find someone willing to =
rent
> the track themselves.. Personally paying $250 for a day of track is a=
bit

Heh. This varies widely, depending on the track. $300/day is average
for Laguna Seca these days.

--Ian

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Shepherd, Mike" <(email redacted)>

Wallyman,

Working us Lexington guys over....now that hurts. ;-) Yes, we are paying $=
250 for a day at Putnam, but it's a 30-35 car field of mostly Miatas. We'l=
l get a lot of seat time at kind of a unique event. I think its worth it. =
I'll run Putnam in the fall for $250 for 2 days, but its a 90-100 car fiel=
d with the typical 10% or less Miatas, so its not quite the same thing.

As for your comment about getting on Mid-Ohio for less than 2 bills, I'd li=
ke to see you pull that one off. :-) It's fairly difficult to get on that=
track at all, much less cheaply. I'm paying $500 for a 2 day event there =
in May. I suppose it might be different if you went during the week, but f=
or us, since we don't have any track less than 180 miles away or so, we hav=
e to take what we can get on the weekends.=20=20

Color yourself lucky for living close to quite a few tracks. Course the do=
wnside of that is you have to live in Michigan. :-P

Mike
Lexington, KY

-----Original Message-----
From: (email redacted) [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 12:16 PM
To: (email redacted)
Cc: (email redacted); (email redacted); (email redacted)
Subject: Re: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed



Well, Gingerman is no Laguna Seca. ;) Not by a long shot.

Very true, I would bet the Midwest ones around here could be had in the
<$200 range. Blackhawk, Mid-Ohio, Gingerman, Grattan, Puttnam,
Mid-america... I can probably hit any of those for under 2 bills, less if
the track is rented by a group of drivers and not a company making profit.
The thing that boggles my mind is the Lexington dudes shelling out, what,
$275? for Puttnam when I am SURE it could be done far cheaper on your own..
again, I am probably just spoiled by years of cheap Gingerman time. In
order to save cash, you need time to set up that kind of event, and if I
had more time, I certainly would try.. Eric (a Detroit guy) does Grattan,
and last year was $108 each, total of <40 cars & bikes in 3 groups... I was
sooo sick of driving by the end of the day... :) I'm in again for this
years on that too.. should be fun with the Sub.

Wallyman



=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
Ian McCloghrie=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
<(email redacted)> To: Walt_Helsel@urscor=
p.com=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
cc: "Will Martins" <wi=
(email redacted)>, (email redacted),=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
02/26/2004 12:09 (email redacted)=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
PM Subject: Re: Tracking the c=
ar - suspension eval needed=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
Please respond to=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
ian=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20




On Feb 26, 2004 (email redacted) wrote:
> DE's can be had for $150 or less, if you can find someone willing to rent
> the track themselves.. Personally paying $250 for a day of track is a bit

Heh. This varies widely, depending on the track. $300/day is average
for Laguna Seca these days.

--Ian

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Chris P" <(email redacted)>

when u guys say $250/day, is that per participant with a min participants?
also where are the tracks in the northeast and do i need a club affiliation
to get on? i know i have a few specific steps to get through before getting
on a track, starting with putting my car back together, adding safety
equipment, learning to "drive", doing some auto-x, tweaking the car some
more, etc etc and even going and watching a track from the side. but just
learning here, what is required to "track" a car. i'm guessing safety equipt
and some kind of documented driving proficiency, but what would that be?

thanks from a new victim... :)

chris



----- Original Message -----
From: "Shepherd, Mike" <(email redacted)>
To: <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
Cc: <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 12:54 PM
Subject: RE: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed


Wallyman,

Working us Lexington guys over....now that hurts. ;-) Yes, we are paying
$250 for a day at Putnam, but it's a 30-35 car field of mostly Miatas.
We'll get a lot of seat time at kind of a unique event. I think its worth
it. I'll run Putnam in the fall for $250 for 2 days, but its a 90-100 car
field with the typical 10% or less Miatas, so its not quite the same thing.

As for your comment about getting on Mid-Ohio for less than 2 bills, I'd
like to see you pull that one off. :-) It's fairly difficult to get on
that track at all, much less cheaply. I'm paying $500 for a 2 day event
there in May. I suppose it might be different if you went during the week,
but for us, since we don't have any track less than 180 miles away or so, we
have to take what we can get on the weekends.

Color yourself lucky for living close to quite a few tracks. Course the
downside of that is you have to live in Michigan. :-P

Mike
Lexington, KY

-----Original Message-----
From: (email redacted) [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 12:16 PM
To: (email redacted)
Cc: (email redacted); (email redacted); (email redacted)
Subject: Re: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed



Well, Gingerman is no Laguna Seca. ;) Not by a long shot.

Very true, I would bet the Midwest ones around here could be had in the
<$200 range. Blackhawk, Mid-Ohio, Gingerman, Grattan, Puttnam,
Mid-america... I can probably hit any of those for under 2 bills, less if
the track is rented by a group of drivers and not a company making profit.
The thing that boggles my mind is the Lexington dudes shelling out, what,
$275? for Puttnam when I am SURE it could be done far cheaper on your own..
again, I am probably just spoiled by years of cheap Gingerman time. In
order to save cash, you need time to set up that kind of event, and if I
had more time, I certainly would try.. Eric (a Detroit guy) does Grattan,
and last year was $108 each, total of <40 cars & bikes in 3 groups... I was
sooo sick of driving by the end of the day... :) I'm in again for this
years on that too.. should be fun with the Sub.

Wallyman




Ian McCloghrie
<(email redacted)> To:
(email redacted)
cc: "Will Martins"
<(email redacted)>, (email redacted),
02/26/2004 12:09 (email redacted)
PM Subject: Re: Tracking the
car - suspension eval needed
Please respond to

ian






On Feb 26, 2004 (email redacted) wrote:
> DE's can be had for $150 or less, if you can find someone willing to rent
> the track themselves.. Personally paying $250 for a day of track is a bit

Heh. This varies widely, depending on the track. $300/day is average
for Laguna Seca these days.

--Ian

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Chris P" <(email redacted)>

when u guys say $250/day, is that per participant with a min participants?
also where are the tracks in the northeast and do i need a club affiliation
to get on? i know i have a few specific steps to get through before getting
on a track, starting with putting my car back together, adding safety
equipment, learning to "drive", doing some auto-x, tweaking the car some
more, etc etc and even going and watching a track from the side. but just
learning here, what is required to "track" a car. i'm guessing safety equipt
and some kind of documented driving proficiency, but what would that be?

thanks from a new victim... :)

chris


----- Original Message -----
From: "Shepherd, Mike" <(email redacted)>
To: <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
Cc: <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 12:54 PM
Subject: RE: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed


Wallyman,

Working us Lexington guys over....now that hurts. ;-) Yes, we are paying
$250 for a day at Putnam, but it's a 30-35 car field of mostly Miatas.
We'll get a lot of seat time at kind of a unique event. I think its worth
it. I'll run Putnam in the fall for $250 for 2 days, but its a 90-100 car
field with the typical 10% or less Miatas, so its not quite the same thing.

As for your comment about getting on Mid-Ohio for less than 2 bills, I'd
like to see you pull that one off. :-) It's fairly difficult to get on
that track at all, much less cheaply. I'm paying $500 for a 2 day event
there in May. I suppose it might be different if you went during the week,
but for us, since we don't have any track less than 180 miles away or so, we
have to take what we can get on the weekends.

Color yourself lucky for living close to quite a few tracks. Course the
downside of that is you have to live in Michigan. :-P

Mike
Lexington, KY

-----Original Message-----
From: (email redacted) [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 12:16 PM
To: (email redacted)
Cc: (email redacted); (email redacted); (email redacted)
Subject: Re: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed



Well, Gingerman is no Laguna Seca. ;) Not by a long shot.

Very true, I would bet the Midwest ones around here could be had in the
<$200 range. Blackhawk, Mid-Ohio, Gingerman, Grattan, Puttnam,
Mid-america... I can probably hit any of those for under 2 bills, less if
the track is rented by a group of drivers and not a company making profit.
The thing that boggles my mind is the Lexington dudes shelling out, what,
$275? for Puttnam when I am SURE it could be done far cheaper on your own..
again, I am probably just spoiled by years of cheap Gingerman time. In
order to save cash, you need time to set up that kind of event, and if I
had more time, I certainly would try.. Eric (a Detroit guy) does Grattan,
and last year was $108 each, total of <40 cars & bikes in 3 groups... I was
sooo sick of driving by the end of the day... :) I'm in again for this
years on that too.. should be fun with the Sub.

Wallyman




Ian McCloghrie
<(email redacted)> To:
(email redacted)
cc: "Will Martins"
<(email redacted)>, (email redacted),
02/26/2004 12:09 (email redacted)
PM Subject: Re: Tracking the
car - suspension eval needed
Please respond to

ian






On Feb 26, 2004 (email redacted) wrote:
> DE's can be had for $150 or less, if you can find someone willing to rent
> the track themselves.. Personally paying $250 for a day of track is a bit

Heh. This varies widely, depending on the track. $300/day is average
for Laguna Seca these days.

--Ian

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Aaron Lee" <(email redacted)>

Here in Southern California, we're spoiled by cheap track days.

Willow Springs big track and Streets of Willow can be had for $100-$150 at =
least twice a month from various groups. Buttonwillow runs $130-$175 from =
varioous groups. California Speedway is also cheap, at abotu $130-160.

One day I'll splurge and go to Laguna Seca for $300.=20=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Ian McCloghrie [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 9:09 AM
To: (email redacted)
Cc: Will Martins; (email redacted); (email redacted)
Subject: Re: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed=20


On Feb 26, 2004 (email redacted) wrote:
> DE's can be had for $150 or less, if you can find someone willing to rent
> the track themselves.. Personally paying $250 for a day of track is a bit

Heh. This varies widely, depending on the track. $300/day is average
for Laguna Seca these days.

--Ian

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)


My track experience costs in the Mid-West are along the lines of Walt's.
I've been to Brainerd Intl twice with the Corvette club for <$150 and could
drive until I couldn't anymore. There is a local MN outfit that runs track
days at the Minnesota Highway Safety Center. It is about a 1.25 mi course,
plenty of fun. A day there can be as little as $60. In this case I may only
get an hour on track, sometimes more, sometimes less. I'd like to get over
the Gingerman with you some time Wally. Looks like Mid-America, near Omaha
may be possible this year too.

Steve



Walt_Helsel@URSCo
rp.com To: (email redacted)
cc: (email redacted), (email redacted), (email redacted)
02/26/2004 11:16 Subject: Re: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed
AM







Well, Gingerman is no Laguna Seca. ;) Not by a long shot.

Very true, I would bet the Midwest ones around here could be had in the
<$200 range. Blackhawk, Mid-Ohio, Gingerman, Grattan, Puttnam,
Mid-america... I can probably hit any of those for under 2 bills, less if
the track is rented by a group of drivers and not a company making profit.
The thing that boggles my mind is the Lexington dudes shelling out, what,
$275? for Puttnam when I am SURE it could be done far cheaper on your own..
again, I am probably just spoiled by years of cheap Gingerman time. In
order to save cash, you need time to set up that kind of event, and if I
had more time, I certainly would try.. Eric (a Detroit guy) does Grattan,
and last year was $108 each, total of <40 cars & bikes in 3 groups... I was
sooo sick of driving by the end of the day... :) I'm in again for this
years on that too.. should be fun with the Sub.

Wallyman




Ian McCloghrie

<(email redacted)> To:
(email redacted)

cc: "Will Martins"
<(email redacted)>, (email redacted),
02/26/2004 12:09 (email redacted)

PM Subject: Re: Tracking the
car - suspension eval needed
Please respond to

ian







On Feb 26, 2004 (email redacted) wrote:
> DE's can be had for $150 or less, if you can find someone willing to rent
> the track themselves.. Personally paying $250 for a day of track is a bit

Heh. This varies widely, depending on the track. $300/day is average
for Laguna Seca these days.

--Ian








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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Ackley, Ray (R.A.)" <(email redacted)>

I'm sure cheap track days aren't the only thing you're spoiled by in SoCal :-)

Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: Aaron Lee [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 2:06 PM
To: (email redacted); (email redacted)
Cc: Will Martins; (email redacted); (email redacted)
Subject: RE: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed

Here in Southern California, we're spoiled by cheap track days.

Willow Springs big track and Streets of Willow can be had for $100-$150 at least twice a month from various groups. Buttonwillow runs $130-$175 from varioous groups. California Speedway is also cheap, at abotu $130-160.

One day I'll splurge and go to Laguna Seca for $300.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ian McCloghrie [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 9:09 AM
To: (email redacted)
Cc: Will Martins; (email redacted); (email redacted)
Subject: Re: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed


On Feb 26, 2004 (email redacted) wrote:
> DE's can be had for $150 or less, if you can find someone willing to
> rent the track themselves.. Personally paying $250 for a day of track
> is a bit

Heh. This varies widely, depending on the track. $300/day is average for Laguna Seca these days.

--Ian

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Aaron Lee" <(email redacted)>

True... We just had a "huge storm" that dropped a few inches of rain yester=
day. I think it may have dropped maybe 2 feet of snow in the mountains. =
But the clouds are clearing and the sun is out now, so we'll be okay...

-----Original Message-----
From: Ackley, Ray (R.A.) [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 11:17 AM
To: Aaron Lee; '(email redacted)'; '(email redacted)'
Cc: 'Will Martins'; '(email redacted)'; '(email redacted)'
Subject: RE: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed=20


I'm sure cheap track days aren't the only thing you're spoiled by in SoCal =
:-)

Ray=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Aaron Lee [mailto:(email redacted)]=20
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 2:06 PM
To: (email redacted); (email redacted)
Cc: Will Martins; (email redacted); (email redacted)
Subject: RE: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed=20

Here in Southern California, we're spoiled by cheap track days.

Willow Springs big track and Streets of Willow can be had for $100-$150 at =
least twice a month from various groups. Buttonwillow runs $130-$175 from =
varioous groups. California Speedway is also cheap, at abotu $130-160.

One day I'll splurge and go to Laguna Seca for $300.=20=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Ian McCloghrie [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 9:09 AM
To: (email redacted)
Cc: Will Martins; (email redacted); (email redacted)
Subject: Re: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed=20


On Feb 26, 2004 (email redacted) wrote:
> DE's can be had for $150 or less, if you can find someone willing to=20
> rent the track themselves.. Personally paying $250 for a day of track=20
> is a bit

Heh. This varies widely, depending on the track. $300/day is average for =
Laguna Seca these days.

--Ian

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)

Chris,

In this area your best bet is to join a club. That way you can preregister
for an event. Even then, some events are so popular, there maybe a waiting list.
Some driving schools are just that, and they take anyone willing to pay, but
you still need to get in early.
Most of the events include class room instruction during the day between runs.
When running, you will be with a group of similar skills and have an
instructor with you at all times.
With each event as your skills increase, you will be bumped up a group until
you get signed off to run solo.

That's how it's done up here in the NE anyway.

The 2 local tracks are Lime Rock Park in CT and New Hampshire International
Speedway. NHIS has 3 or 4 configurations for their road course.
Both tracks are challenging and technical.
when u guys say $250/day, is that per participant with a min participants?
also where are the tracks in the northeast and do i need a club affiliation
to get on? i know i have a few specific steps to get through before getting
on a track, starting with putting my car back together, adding safety
equipment, learning to "drive", doing some auto-x, tweaking the car some
more, etc etc and even going and watching a track from the side. but just
learning here, what is required to "track" a car. i'm guessing safety equipt
and some kind of documented driving proficiency, but what would that be?

thanks from a new victim... :)

chris

Les
apexautoeng.com

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Tim South" <(email redacted)>

The Ohio Valley region PCA had a DE at Mid-OH last spring, that went for
about $320, two days of (4) twenty minute sessions.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shepherd, Mike" <(email redacted)>
To: <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
Cc: <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 12:54 PM
Subject: RE: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed


Wallyman,

Working us Lexington guys over....now that hurts. ;-) Yes, we are paying
$250 for a day at Putnam, but it's a 30-35 car field of mostly Miatas.
We'll get a lot of seat time at kind of a unique event. I think its worth
it. I'll run Putnam in the fall for $250 for 2 days, but its a 90-100 car
field with the typical 10% or less Miatas, so its not quite the same thing.

As for your comment about getting on Mid-Ohio for less than 2 bills, I'd
like to see you pull that one off. :-) It's fairly difficult to get on
that track at all, much less cheaply. I'm paying $500 for a 2 day event
there in May. I suppose it might be different if you went during the week,
but for us, since we don't have any track less than 180 miles away or so, we
have to take what we can get on the weekends.

Color yourself lucky for living close to quite a few tracks. Course the
downside of that is you have to live in Michigan. :-P

Mike
Lexington, KY

-----Original Message-----
From: (email redacted) [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 12:16 PM
To: (email redacted)
Cc: (email redacted); (email redacted); (email redacted)
Subject: Re: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed



Well, Gingerman is no Laguna Seca. ;) Not by a long shot.

Very true, I would bet the Midwest ones around here could be had in the
<$200 range. Blackhawk, Mid-Ohio, Gingerman, Grattan, Puttnam,
Mid-america... I can probably hit any of those for under 2 bills, less if
the track is rented by a group of drivers and not a company making profit.
The thing that boggles my mind is the Lexington dudes shelling out, what,
$275? for Puttnam when I am SURE it could be done far cheaper on your own..
again, I am probably just spoiled by years of cheap Gingerman time. In
order to save cash, you need time to set up that kind of event, and if I
had more time, I certainly would try.. Eric (a Detroit guy) does Grattan,
and last year was $108 each, total of <40 cars & bikes in 3 groups... I was
sooo sick of driving by the end of the day... :) I'm in again for this
years on that too.. should be fun with the Sub.

Wallyman




Ian McCloghrie
<(email redacted)> To:
(email redacted)
cc: "Will Martins"
<(email redacted)>, (email redacted),
02/26/2004 12:09 (email redacted)
PM Subject: Re: Tracking the
car - suspension eval needed
Please respond to
ian






On Feb 26, 2004 (email redacted) wrote:
> DE's can be had for $150 or less, if you can find someone willing to rent
> the track themselves.. Personally paying $250 for a day of track is a bit

Heh. This varies widely, depending on the track. $300/day is average
for Laguna Seca these days.

--Ian

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)


No, thankfully for all involved. :)

Wallyman




Bill Cardell
<bill@flyinmiata. To: "'(email redacted)'" <(email redacted)>, (email redacted)
com> cc: (email redacted), (email redacted), (email redacted)
Subject: RE: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed
02/26/2004 12:27
PM






But did they let the cars and bikes run together? *That's* when it's fun.

Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad)
(email redacted)
Flyin' Miata
1-800-359-6957 (sales only)
970-242-3800 (tech support)
flyinmiata.com
flyinprotege.com

-----Original Message-----
From: (email redacted) [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 10:16 AM
To: (email redacted)
Cc: (email redacted); (email redacted); (email redacted)
Subject: Re: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed



Well, Gingerman is no Laguna Seca. ;) Not by a long shot.

Very true, I would bet the Midwest ones around here could be had in the
<$200 range. Blackhawk, Mid-Ohio, Gingerman, Grattan, Puttnam,
Mid-america... I can probably hit any of those for under 2 bills, less if
the track is rented by a group of drivers and not a company making profit.
The thing that boggles my mind is the Lexington dudes shelling out, what,
$275? for Puttnam when I am SURE it could be done far cheaper on your own..
again, I am probably just spoiled by years of cheap Gingerman time. In
order to save cash, you need time to set up that kind of event, and if I
had more time, I certainly would try.. Eric (a Detroit guy) does Grattan,
and last year was $108 each, total of <40 cars & bikes in 3 groups... I was
sooo sick of driving by the end of the day... :) I'm in again for this
years on that too.. should be fun with the Sub.

Wallyman





Ian McCloghrie

<(email redacted)> To:
(email redacted)

cc: "Will Martins"
<(email redacted)>, (email redacted),
02/26/2004 12:09 (email redacted)

PM Subject: Re: Tracking the
car - suspension eval needed
Please respond to

ian









On Feb 26, 2004 (email redacted) wrote:
> DE's can be had for $150 or less, if you can find someone willing to rent
> the track themselves.. Personally paying $250 for a day of track is a bit

Heh. This varies widely, depending on the track. $300/day is average
for Laguna Seca these days.

--Ian

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)


Shep,

Awww, I wouldn't do it if I didn't think you could take it. :) I guess my
big question is, why don't you (or one of you) organize an event
yourselves, ALL Miatas and cheaper? Just a thought. I take s a little bit
of legwork, but with a deposit you could manage I think.. what's the going
rate for renting Puttnam on a Friday?

Agreed it's not the same, but $250/2 days isn't bad at all.. $125 a day.
And I actually like more diverse cars than all Miata's, otherwise I'd buy a
SPEC racer. :)

Ok, apparently Mid-Ohio is expensive, but jezzz.. $500? Ouch. And that
cheap Grattan day is a Friday, so weekday is cheaper I guess. Another nice
bonus is evenings at Gingerman are $60 from what I've been told.. a few
hours of open track for super cheap.

I really only live close to Grattan and Gingerman, everything else is 180+
miles too, I believe.. I know Chicago is. Michigan blows for winter.. but
the car is hopefully coming out tonight or tomorrow, wahoo! The manifold
with EGT probe is on the floor of the OTM ready to be installed tonight.

One thougth for anyone after cheap(er) track time, Speedtrial USA does
events, and are generally reasonable and nationwide. They do Gingerman for
$175 IIRC.

Wallyman




"Shepherd, Mike"
<MShepherd@deandort To: <(email redacted)>, <(email redacted)>
onford.com> cc: <(email redacted)>, <(email redacted)>, <(email redacted)>
Subject: RE: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed
02/26/2004 12:54 PM






Wallyman,

Working us Lexington guys over....now that hurts. ;-) Yes, we are paying
$250 for a day at Putnam, but it's a 30-35 car field of mostly Miatas.
We'll get a lot of seat time at kind of a unique event. I think its worth
it. I'll run Putnam in the fall for $250 for 2 days, but its a 90-100 car
field with the typical 10% or less Miatas, so its not quite the same thing.

As for your comment about getting on Mid-Ohio for less than 2 bills, I'd
like to see you pull that one off. :-) It's fairly difficult to get on
that track at all, much less cheaply. I'm paying $500 for a 2 day event
there in May. I suppose it might be different if you went during the week,
but for us, since we don't have any track less than 180 miles away or so,
we have to take what we can get on the weekends.

Color yourself lucky for living close to quite a few tracks. Course the
downside of that is you have to live in Michigan. :-P

Mike
Lexington, KY

-----Original Message-----
From: (email redacted) [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 12:16 PM
To: (email redacted)
Cc: (email redacted); (email redacted); (email redacted)
Subject: Re: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed



Well, Gingerman is no Laguna Seca. ;) Not by a long shot.

Very true, I would bet the Midwest ones around here could be had in the
<$200 range. Blackhawk, Mid-Ohio, Gingerman, Grattan, Puttnam,
Mid-america... I can probably hit any of those for under 2 bills, less if
the track is rented by a group of drivers and not a company making profit.
The thing that boggles my mind is the Lexington dudes shelling out, what,
$275? for Puttnam when I am SURE it could be done far cheaper on your own..
again, I am probably just spoiled by years of cheap Gingerman time. In
order to save cash, you need time to set up that kind of event, and if I
had more time, I certainly would try.. Eric (a Detroit guy) does Grattan,
and last year was $108 each, total of <40 cars & bikes in 3 groups... I was
sooo sick of driving by the end of the day... :) I'm in again for this
years on that too.. should be fun with the Sub.

Wallyman




Ian McCloghrie

<(email redacted)> To:
(email redacted)

cc: "Will Martins"
<(email redacted)>, (email redacted),
02/26/2004 12:09 (email redacted)

PM Subject: Re: Tracking the
car - suspension eval needed
Please respond to

ian







On Feb 26, 2004 (email redacted) wrote:
> DE's can be had for $150 or less, if you can find someone willing to rent
> the track themselves.. Personally paying $250 for a day of track is a bit

Heh. This varies widely, depending on the track. $300/day is average
for Laguna Seca these days.

--Ian

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Shepherd, Mike" <(email redacted)>

Wally,

Yes, that's what we should do is organize something ourselves at Putnam. W=
hy don't you help me talk Jim, Lee, Mark, Casey or Kerry into doing that an=
d I'll be set. We can bring a dozen forced induction Miatas from Lexington=
alone. Better yet, why don't you organize something? :-) You are as close=
to Putnam as we are, right? As for me, I'd pay extra to NOT have to organ=
ize it! :-)

As for Mid-Ohio, yep its pricey, but its a well run event through Todd Sero=
ta at www.tracquest.com. I really like the track too.

Mike
Lexington, KY

-----Original Message-----
From: (email redacted) [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 9:13 AM
To: Shepherd, Mike
Cc: (email redacted); (email redacted); (email redacted);
(email redacted)
Subject: RE: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed



Shep,

Awww, I wouldn't do it if I didn't think you could take it. :) I guess my
big question is, why don't you (or one of you) organize an event
yourselves, ALL Miatas and cheaper? Just a thought. I take s a little bit
of legwork, but with a deposit you could manage I think.. what's the going
rate for renting Puttnam on a Friday?

Agreed it's not the same, but $250/2 days isn't bad at all.. $125 a day.
And I actually like more diverse cars than all Miata's, otherwise I'd buy a
SPEC racer. :)

Ok, apparently Mid-Ohio is expensive, but jezzz.. $500? Ouch. And that
cheap Grattan day is a Friday, so weekday is cheaper I guess. Another nice
bonus is evenings at Gingerman are $60 from what I've been told.. a few
hours of open track for super cheap.

I really only live close to Grattan and Gingerman, everything else is 180+
miles too, I believe.. I know Chicago is. Michigan blows for winter.. but
the car is hopefully coming out tonight or tomorrow, wahoo! The manifold
with EGT probe is on the floor of the OTM ready to be installed tonight.

One thougth for anyone after cheap(er) track time, Speedtrial USA does
events, and are generally reasonable and nationwide. They do Gingerman for
$175 IIRC.

Wallyman



=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
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"Shepherd, Mike"=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
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=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
<MShepherd@deandort To: <Walt_Helsel@urs=
corp.com>, <(email redacted)>=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
onford.com> cc: <(email redacted)=
m>, <(email redacted)>, <(email redacted)>=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20
Subject: RE: Tracking the=
car - suspension eval needed=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
02/26/2004 12:54 PM=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
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=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20




Wallyman,

Working us Lexington guys over....now that hurts. ;-) Yes, we are paying
$250 for a day at Putnam, but it's a 30-35 car field of mostly Miatas.
We'll get a lot of seat time at kind of a unique event. I think its worth
it. I'll run Putnam in the fall for $250 for 2 days, but its a 90-100 car
field with the typical 10% or less Miatas, so its not quite the same thing.

As for your comment about getting on Mid-Ohio for less than 2 bills, I'd
like to see you pull that one off. :-) It's fairly difficult to get on
that track at all, much less cheaply. I'm paying $500 for a 2 day event
there in May. I suppose it might be different if you went during the week,
but for us, since we don't have any track less than 180 miles away or so,
we have to take what we can get on the weekends.

Color yourself lucky for living close to quite a few tracks. Course the
downside of that is you have to live in Michigan. :-P

Mike
Lexington, KY

-----Original Message-----
From: (email redacted) [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 12:16 PM
To: (email redacted)
Cc: (email redacted); (email redacted); (email redacted)
Subject: Re: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed



Well, Gingerman is no Laguna Seca. ;) Not by a long shot.

Very true, I would bet the Midwest ones around here could be had in the
<$200 range. Blackhawk, Mid-Ohio, Gingerman, Grattan, Puttnam,
Mid-america... I can probably hit any of those for under 2 bills, less if
the track is rented by a group of drivers and not a company making profit.
The thing that boggles my mind is the Lexington dudes shelling out, what,
$275? for Puttnam when I am SURE it could be done far cheaper on your own..
again, I am probably just spoiled by years of cheap Gingerman time. In
order to save cash, you need time to set up that kind of event, and if I
had more time, I certainly would try.. Eric (a Detroit guy) does Grattan,
and last year was $108 each, total of <40 cars & bikes in 3 groups... I was
sooo sick of driving by the end of the day... :) I'm in again for this
years on that too.. should be fun with the Sub.

Wallyman




Ian McCloghrie

<(email redacted)> To:
(email redacted)

cc: "Will Martins"
<(email redacted)>, (email redacted),
02/26/2004 12:09 (email redacted)

PM Subject: Re: Tracking the
car - suspension eval needed
Please respond to

ian







On Feb 26, 2004 (email redacted) wrote:
> DE's can be had for $150 or less, if you can find someone willing to rent
> the track themselves.. Personally paying $250 for a day of track is a bit

Heh. This varies widely, depending on the track. $300/day is average
for Laguna Seca these days.

--Ian

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Regie L Bryant <(email redacted)>






I had never been carsick in my life until after a student had a bad off
with me in the car.

Now it is something I'm really battling with. (I've actually had to get
students to pit and let me out of the car.)

I can ride around with other instructors/advanced students all day long at
speed without any problem.

Intermediate students are the worst. They are jerky in their movements
and/or off-line, and go fast enough to really screw up.

Green students don't make me sick, primarily because they generally go
slower and with more caution.

And if I get sick, I can get in my car and drive and it will go away in
about 1/2 a lap.

Regie




"William Howell"
<(email redacted)> To: (email redacted)
cc: (email redacted)
02/25/2004 10:45 Subject: Re: Tracking the car - suspension eval needed
AM






That is completely true. I can drive my car around a track all day long,
but
when I went for a 20 minute session in a Spec RX7, I was about to toss my
lunch
on the dash at the end of the session! Same goes for doing multiple runs
in
high HP cars at autocrosses.

Many instructors I have talked to say they battle the same ailment. Some
people get sick, some don't. I think it's similar to flying.

Billy


Quoting (email redacted):

> It's different when driving. You won't feel sick. :)
> I went to a Miata Auto-X once and took a spin in a participants turbo
porche.
>
> I got a bit motion sick in that approx 65sec run! But I'll get used to it
I'm
>
> sure.
>
> Les
> apexautoeng.com
>