Miatapower List Archive

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)



In a message dated 4/2/2006 2:30:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
(email redacted) writes:

All of the light-weight tires (varying brands) that I've owned have leaked
air much faster than heavier tires on the very same wheels. Is that just
coincidence or have others noticed the same thing? My sample isn't large enough
to have statistical value. To be more specific, the lighter-weight tires
seem to drop from 35 psi to 30psi in two weeks or less while the heavier ones
will do the same in about 4-6 months. I'm wondering if the extra weight is due
to an extra internal coating of some kind of sealing compund.



Ray, do you have a tire valve wrench/tightening tool? Perhaps the valves
are working loose.
Seems unlikely that it would happen uniformly though.
At what time of day do you check your tires? In the early morning they
should register lower PSI than later in the day (yeah, I know that you know
that...)
As for greater PSI loss with lighter tires, I can't say that I've noticed
any difference between the heavier and the lighter tires, winter or summer, or
between brands.
Do you change valve stems with each new set of tires?

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Ray" <(email redacted)>

Always new stems each tire change. The air loss is consistent among all fo=
ur tires.


----- Original Message -----=20
From: (email redacted)=20
To: (email redacted)=20
Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 1:35 PM
Subject: Re: Tire air seepage question.


In a message dated 4/2/2006 2:30:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, r-ayala@san=
.rr.com writes:
All of the light-weight tires (varying brands) that I've owned have leake=
d air much faster than heavier tires on the very same wheels. Is that just=
coincidence or have others noticed the same thing? My sample isn't large =
enough to have statistical value. To be more specific, the lighter-weight =
tires seem to drop from 35 psi to 30psi in two weeks or less while the heav=
ier ones will do the same in about 4-6 months. I'm wondering if the extra =
weight is due to an extra internal coating of some kind of sealing compund.
Ray, do you have a tire valve wrench/tightening tool? Perhaps the valves a=
re working loose.
Seems unlikely that it would happen uniformly though.=20=20
At what time of day do you check your tires? In the early morning they sho=
uld register lower PSI than later in the day (yeah, I know that you know th=
at...)
As for greater PSI loss with lighter tires, I can't say that I've noticed a=
ny difference between the heavier and the lighter tires, winter or summer, =
or between brands.=20=20
Do you change valve stems with each new set of tires?=20=20=

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)


In a message dated 4/2/2006 4:48:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
(email redacted) writes:

The air loss is consistent among all four tires.


I have no idea then. Barometric pressure drops do that, of course, but
that's not what's happening with your tires, 'cause you'd probably note the
increas in PSI when the pressure rose. I replied that I hadn't noted any similar
pressure drops, but then, what you've noted isn't something that most folks
notice. If I discover I'm down 4 PSI, I add air and that's that, unless I
continuously loose air in a single tire, and then I'd look for a nail.
I don't know.

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Mail From: (email redacted)


I can't speak to other tires on the Miata as I've only had Toyo's since
Sleepy was new. I'm on my third set of T1-Ss and will most likely be going to a
set if T1-Rs in a few weeks.

The Toyo T1-S tires have always needed air to be added every couple of
weeks. I've never had heaver tires on the Miata, however, on previous Mustang I
don't remember the Dunlops leaking are nearly as fast as the Toyos.

Jim in Tucson


In a message dated 4/2/2006 11:30:15 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
(email redacted) writes:

All of the light-weight tires (varying brands) that I've owned have leaked
air much faster than heavier tires on the very same wheels. Is that just
coincidence or have others noticed the same thing? My sample isn't large enough
to have statistical value. To be more specific, the lighter-weight tires
seem to drop from 35 psi to 30psi in two weeks or less while the heavier ones
will do the same in about 4-6 months. I'm wondering if the extra weight is due
to an extra internal coating of some kind of sealing compund.

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Matt Yates" <(email redacted)>

Ray,
I don't know the root of your problem... but! Nitrogen is not only more
temperature stable (and will rule out your time-of-day measurements for at
least a sanity check), but by itself is less likely to "seep" over time
than air (specifically the 21% or so that is oxygen) due to larger
molecule size.

Matt

> In a message dated 4/2/2006 11:30:15 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
> (email redacted) writes:
>
> All of the light-weight tires (varying brands) that I've owned have
> leaked
> air much faster than heavier tires on the very same wheels. Is that just
> coincidence or have others noticed the same thing? My sample isn't large
> enough
> to have statistical value. To be more specific, the lighter-weight tires
> seem to drop from 35 psi to 30psi in two weeks or less while the heavier
> ones
> will do the same in about 4-6 months. I'm wondering if the extra weight
> is due
> to an extra internal coating of some kind of sealing compund.

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)

Nope, had various High Po tires, no seepage problems on any of them.

I bet most people will cringe but I'm a fan of the good ole' fix-a-flat
treatment.. put some in there and your leaking days will probably be gone.
I have yet to do it on the Miata but have done it successfully on other
cars (Grandma's 84 Diplomat that sees 3 miles a week, and my Intrepid that
has 2 tires with repaired nail holes.. solved all of them).

One of my S-03's leaked due to a ripped bead and as a temp fix the tire
place used some nasty black slime on it and it's held for over a year.. no
weird vibration issues as a result, either. I never got the new S-03
because the leak stopped...

Wallyman





"Ray"
<(email redacted).c
om> To
<(email redacted)>
04/02/2006 02:30 cc
PM
Subject
Tire air seepage question.










All of the light-weight tires (varying brands) that I've owned have leaked
air much faster than heavier tires on the very same wheels. Is that just
coincidence or have others noticed the same thing? My sample isn't large
enough to have statistical value. To be more specific, the lighter-weight
tires seem to drop from 35 psi to 30psi in two weeks or less while the
heavier ones will do the same in about 4-6 months. I'm wondering if the
extra weight is due to an extra internal coating of some kind of sealing
compund.

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Michael Burgess" <(email redacted)>

What would it take to fill the tires with nitrogen (no2?) Money wise?

Could you get it from a paint ball shop?

Would CO2 work as well?

I would be nice to have a small paint-ball sized tank handy for fill ups
on the road instead of carrying a large air tank or mini compressor...

-Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Yates [mailto:(email redacted)]=20
Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 5:50 PM
To: (email redacted)
Cc: (email redacted)
Subject: [new sender] - Re: Tire air seepage question. - Message is from
an unknown sender

Ray,
I don't know the root of your problem... but! Nitrogen is not only more
temperature stable (and will rule out your time-of-day measurements for
at
least a sanity check), but by itself is less likely to "seep" over time
than air (specifically the 21% or so that is oxygen) due to larger
molecule size.

Matt

> In a message dated 4/2/2006 11:30:15 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
> (email redacted) writes:
>
> All of the light-weight tires (varying brands) that I've owned have
> leaked
> air much faster than heavier tires on the very same wheels. Is that
just
> coincidence or have others noticed the same thing? My sample isn't
large
> enough
> to have statistical value. To be more specific, the lighter-weight
tires
> seem to drop from 35 psi to 30psi in two weeks or less while the
heavier
> ones
> will do the same in about 4-6 months. I'm wondering if the extra
weight
> is due
> to an extra internal coating of some kind of sealing compund.



NOTE: This e-mail message is intended only for the named recipient(s) above=
and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt=
from disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message i=
n error, or are not the named recipient(s), please immediately notify the s=
ender and delete this e-mail message.

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Larry Alster" <(email redacted)>

Costco now fills all tires they mount with it


Larry

White Knight 1991 Crystal White #99 CSP
Silver Bullet 1992 Silverstone #17 EM FM I+ Turbo
Honey B 1992 Sunburst Yellow J.R. M45
Whooosh 2004 Titanium MazdaSpeed MX5

LowCountry Miata lowcountrymiataclub.net
Masters Miata
RAGS 074

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Burgess" <(email redacted)>
To: "Matt Yates" <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
Cc: <(email redacted)>
Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: Tire air seepage question.


What would it take to fill the tires with nitrogen (no2?) Money wise?

Could you get it from a paint ball shop?

Would CO2 work as well?

I would be nice to have a small paint-ball sized tank handy for fill ups
on the road instead of carrying a large air tank or mini compressor...

-Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Yates [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 5:50 PM
To: (email redacted)
Cc: (email redacted)
Subject: [new sender] - Re: Tire air seepage question. - Message is from
an unknown sender

Ray,
I don't know the root of your problem... but! Nitrogen is not only more
temperature stable (and will rule out your time-of-day measurements for
at
least a sanity check), but by itself is less likely to "seep" over time
than air (specifically the 21% or so that is oxygen) due to larger
molecule size.

Matt

> In a message dated 4/2/2006 11:30:15 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
> (email redacted) writes:
>
> All of the light-weight tires (varying brands) that I've owned have
> leaked
> air much faster than heavier tires on the very same wheels. Is that
just
> coincidence or have others noticed the same thing? My sample isn't
large
> enough
> to have statistical value. To be more specific, the lighter-weight
tires
> seem to drop from 35 psi to 30psi in two weeks or less while the
heavier
> ones
> will do the same in about 4-6 months. I'm wondering if the extra
weight
> is due
> to an extra internal coating of some kind of sealing compund.



NOTE: This e-mail message is intended only for the named recipient(s) above
and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt
from disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message in
error, or are not the named recipient(s), please immediately notify the
sender and delete this e-mail message.

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)

I'd pass on the fix-a-flat as a remedy... Much, if not all, of that stuff
stays wet and moves as the tire spins, constantly changing the balance. You
can't get a decent balance if you have liquid in the tire. Oddly, some
motorcyclists use to use it as a preventive measure, but as I recall, those were
dirt bike riders. I suppose if your typical ride is incredibly bumpy, a little
balance problem may go unnoticed.

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: John Hammer <(email redacted)>

I had a client who had this grand idea that he was going to have
nitrogen filling stations all over the country, where you could have
your air swapped for nitrogen. His claims were as outlandish as any
snake-oil vendor you've ever met: 20% better fuel economy, better safey
and a larger XXXXX to impress the women with. And then...he wants $40
to do it. Here's the thing...it's something like 93% pure nitrogen he
was selling...but isn't the air we breathe 90-some-odd percent Nitrogen
already?

If he can sell that, I'm signing up...talk about a profit margin!


John Hammer
(email redacted)



> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: Tire air seepage question.
> From: "Larry Alster" <(email redacted)>
> Date: Mon, April 03, 2006 12:25 pm
> To: "Michael Burgess" <(email redacted)>, "Matt Yates" <(email redacted)>,
> <(email redacted)>
> Cc: <(email redacted)>
>
> Costco now fills all tires they mount with it
>
>
> Larry
>
> White Knight 1991 Crystal White #99 CSP
> Silver Bullet 1992 Silverstone #17 EM FM I+ Turbo
> Honey B 1992 Sunburst Yellow J.R. M45
> Whooosh 2004 Titanium MazdaSpeed MX5
>
> LowCountry Miata lowcountrymiataclub.net
> Masters Miata
> RAGS 074
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Burgess" <(email redacted)>
> To: "Matt Yates" <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
> Cc: <(email redacted)>
> Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 9:00 AM
> Subject: Re: Tire air seepage question.
>
>
> What would it take to fill the tires with nitrogen (no2?) Money wise?
>
> Could you get it from a paint ball shop?
>
> Would CO2 work as well?
>
> I would be nice to have a small paint-ball sized tank handy for fill ups
> on the road instead of carrying a large air tank or mini compressor...
>
> -Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matt Yates [mailto:(email redacted)]
> Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 5:50 PM
> To: (email redacted)
> Cc: (email redacted)
> Subject: [new sender] - Re: Tire air seepage question. - Message is from
> an unknown sender
>
> Ray,
> I don't know the root of your problem... but! Nitrogen is not only more
> temperature stable (and will rule out your time-of-day measurements for
> at
> least a sanity check), but by itself is less likely to "seep" over time
> than air (specifically the 21% or so that is oxygen) due to larger
> molecule size.
>
> Matt
>
> > In a message dated 4/2/2006 11:30:15 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
> > (email redacted) writes:
> >
> > All of the light-weight tires (varying brands) that I've owned have
> > leaked
> > air much faster than heavier tires on the very same wheels. Is that
> just
> > coincidence or have others noticed the same thing? My sample isn't
> large
> > enough
> > to have statistical value. To be more specific, the lighter-weight
> tires
> > seem to drop from 35 psi to 30psi in two weeks or less while the
> heavier
> > ones
> > will do the same in about 4-6 months. I'm wondering if the extra
> weight
> > is due
> > to an extra internal coating of some kind of sealing compund.
>
>
>
> NOTE: This e-mail message is intended only for the named recipient(s) above
> and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt
> from disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message in
> error, or are not the named recipient(s), please immediately notify the
> sender and delete this e-mail message.

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Abraham Mara" <(email redacted)>

Wow, 93 is nothing impressive. I'm pretty sure regular air is in the 21-22%
range, though. I believe normal air is ~70% nitrogen.

As others have said, some places do it for more or less free. Maybe $5 a
tire, tops?
-Abe.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hammer" <(email redacted)>


>I had a client who had this grand idea that he was going to have
> nitrogen filling stations all over the country, where you could have
> your air swapped for nitrogen. His claims were as outlandish as any
> snake-oil vendor you've ever met: 20% better fuel economy, better safey
> and a larger XXXXX to impress the women with. And then...he wants $40
> to do it. Here's the thing...it's something like 93% pure nitrogen he
> was selling...but isn't the air we breathe 90-some-odd percent Nitrogen
> already?
>
> If he can sell that, I'm signing up...talk about a profit margin!
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Joe Perez <(email redacted)>

When CO2 comes out of a paintball tank it's rather cold. I'd think this
would cause problems trying to get an accurate pressure reading as one
tire would suddenly be measureably cooler than the rest. It's actually
somewhat amusing to see somebody trigger-walking an electronic marker
with CO2- before long the regulator turns into a solid block of ice.

These days, a lot of folks use HPA (high pressure air) tanks such as
this one tinyurl.com/lazgb instead of CO2. The systems are often
refered to as nitrogen, N2, or nitro, but in reality it's just plain
ole' compressed air, albeit at somewhat higher then normal pressure. I
use a 68 cubic inch tank at 4,500 PSI (fiber-wrapped, lighter than the
all-aluminum ones) which, if the marker is in a good mood, will usually
last for about half a case of paint.

Average cost to fill is about $3-$5 at most shops, so while the initial
cost is a little steep, it's quite economical in the long run. (A lot of
places charge $1 per 1,000 PSI, regardless of bottle capacity.) For tire
filling you'd probably need a second regulator as well, the tanks'
internal regulators are usually pre-set for either 800 PSI (same as CO2)
or 450 PSI (used by higher-end "low-pressure" markers)


Michael Burgess wrote:

>What would it take to fill the tires with nitrogen (no2?) Money wise?
>
>Could you get it from a paint ball shop?
>
>Would CO2 work as well?
>
>I would be nice to have a small paint-ball sized tank handy for fill ups
>on the road instead of carrying a large air tank or mini compressor...
>
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)

Well, to each their own I guess. :) I compress springs with big-arse
tywraps too, not exactly "normal".

FWIW, I didn't use a whole can per tire on the Intrepid, I put some in each
of 3 tires that kept leaking out (would go from 32 to 10 psi in 3 days) and
they are much better a week later. The can is still 1/3 or more full as
well. A Light coating is what I envision inside there.

Wallyman





(email redacted)
m
To
04/03/2006 04:48 (email redacted)
PM cc

Subject
Re: Tire air seepage question.










I'd pass on the fix-a-flat as a remedy... Much, if not all, of that stuff
stays wet and moves as the tire spins, constantly changing the balance.
You can't get a decent balance if you have liquid in the tire. Oddly, some
motorcyclists use to use it as a preventive measure, but as I recall, those
were dirt bike riders. I suppose if your typical ride is incredibly bumpy,
a little balance problem may go unnoticed.