Miatapower List Archive

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>

Hey all,

I'm helping out a friend get his JRSC working properly, and having some fuel problems, it runs lean under boost. Had the injectors (stock 1.6) sent away for cleaning. They came back damaged (grrr). Lent him my old 1.6 injectors last night, and they work properly. So now at least that problem is solved. However, it still runs lean.

Symptoms are o2 sensor voltage of about 0.7-0.75v at WOT and spark plug elbow are *clean*, i.e. not white, not sandy, not matte, just clean and a little shiny with a hint of bluish almost, as if they were new out of the box. Around the base of the threads it's black as it should be, and up inside the isolator is also black. There's no difference switching to other hotter or colder plugs. Fuel pressure is around 80psi dropping to 75psi by redline. So there's pressure at least. Other weird symptoms are a fluctuating fuel pressure. I've leant him my old Greddy Vortec fpr (functionally similar to Begi AFPR) and pressure fluctates still maybe +-5 psi or so, JR fpr was fluctuating +-30psi...It never did that while on my car. FPR signal comes from the little nipple on the rear of the intake manifold (same place as my map sensor is hooked to on my car).

I'm really stumped.

Anyone have any clues as to what could be causing it to run lean? There's enough fuel, there's spark, I don't get it. There's no audible pinging and base timing iirc is around 8. All little band-aid black boxes and "crap" is removed to simplify things.

Mike
91 Link'd Greddy in Sweden

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Larry Alster <(email redacted)>

You say fuel pressure is fine but then say it varies and drops. First in
line is a new filter. Then a new pump. It shouldn't be varying or
dropping.


Larry

White Knight 1991 Crystal White #99 CSP
Silver Bullet 1992 Silverstone #17 EM BEGI System IV Turbo +
Honey B 1992 Sunburst Yellow

LowCountry Miata miata.net/lowcountry
Masters Miata
RAGS 074

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>
To: <(email redacted)>
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 3:42 AM
Subject: ...this darn AFPR business


> Hey all,
>
> I'm helping out a friend get his JRSC working properly, and having some
fuel problems, it runs lean under boost. Had the injectors (stock 1.6) sent
away for cleaning. They came back damaged (grrr). Lent him my old 1.6
injectors last night, and they work properly. So now at least that problem
is solved. However, it still runs lean.
>
> Symptoms are o2 sensor voltage of about 0.7-0.75v at WOT and spark plug
elbow are *clean*, i.e. not white, not sandy, not matte, just clean and a
little shiny with a hint of bluish almost, as if they were new out of the
box. Around the base of the threads it's black as it should be, and up
inside the isolator is also black. There's no difference switching to other
hotter or colder plugs. Fuel pressure is around 80psi dropping to 75psi by
redline. So there's pressure at least. Other weird symptoms are a
fluctuating fuel pressure. I've leant him my old Greddy Vortec fpr
(functionally similar to Begi AFPR) and pressure fluctates still maybe +-5
psi or so, JR fpr was fluctuating +-30psi...It never did that while on my
car. FPR signal comes from the little nipple on the rear of the intake
manifold (same place as my map sensor is hooked to on my car).
>
> I'm really stumped.
>
> Anyone have any clues as to what could be causing it to run lean? There's
enough fuel, there's spark, I don't get it. There's no audible pinging and
base timing iirc is around 8. All little band-aid black boxes and "crap" is
removed to simplify things.
>
> Mike
> 91 Link'd Greddy in Sweden
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>

It drops a little, but is that indicative of a bad filter or pump? Hm, I'll check when the filter was last changed. Thanks for the tip, didn't think of that. Still 75 psi should be enough for 6 psi boost, shouldn't it?

Can a fuel pump really go bad all on its own? The car is a 1990 with iirc 50-60k miles or so. US imported.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Alster" <(email redacted)>
To: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business


> You say fuel pressure is fine but then say it varies and drops. First in
> line is a new filter. Then a new pump. It shouldn't be varying or
> dropping.
>
>
> Larry
>
> White Knight 1991 Crystal White #99 CSP
> Silver Bullet 1992 Silverstone #17 EM BEGI System IV Turbo +
> Honey B 1992 Sunburst Yellow
>
> LowCountry Miata miata.net/lowcountry
> Masters Miata
> RAGS 074
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>
> To: <(email redacted)>
> Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 3:42 AM
> Subject: ...this darn AFPR business
>
>
> > Hey all,
> >
> > I'm helping out a friend get his JRSC working properly, and having some
> fuel problems, it runs lean under boost. Had the injectors (stock 1.6) sent
> away for cleaning. They came back damaged (grrr). Lent him my old 1.6
> injectors last night, and they work properly. So now at least that problem
> is solved. However, it still runs lean.
> >
> > Symptoms are o2 sensor voltage of about 0.7-0.75v at WOT and spark plug
> elbow are *clean*, i.e. not white, not sandy, not matte, just clean and a
> little shiny with a hint of bluish almost, as if they were new out of the
> box. Around the base of the threads it's black as it should be, and up
> inside the isolator is also black. There's no difference switching to other
> hotter or colder plugs. Fuel pressure is around 80psi dropping to 75psi by
> redline. So there's pressure at least. Other weird symptoms are a
> fluctuating fuel pressure. I've leant him my old Greddy Vortec fpr
> (functionally similar to Begi AFPR) and pressure fluctates still maybe +-5
> psi or so, JR fpr was fluctuating +-30psi...It never did that while on my
> car. FPR signal comes from the little nipple on the rear of the intake
> manifold (same place as my map sensor is hooked to on my car).
> >
> > I'm really stumped.
> >
> > Anyone have any clues as to what could be causing it to run lean? There's
> enough fuel, there's spark, I don't get it. There's no audible pinging and
> base timing iirc is around 8. All little band-aid black boxes and "crap" is
> removed to simplify things.
> >
> > Mike
> > 91 Link'd Greddy in Sweden
> >
>
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>

Fuel filter was changed when sc was installed, last fall and very few miles inbetween then and now. He even changed filter twice to make sure.

What can cause the fluctuations in pressure, i.e. that it swings back and forth while using the afprs, almost like a self-resonance somehow? Is that the pump that's bad, any other way of checking this?

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Alster" <(email redacted)>
To: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business


> You say fuel pressure is fine but then say it varies and drops. First in
> line is a new filter. Then a new pump. It shouldn't be varying or
> dropping.
>
>
> Larry
>
> White Knight 1991 Crystal White #99 CSP
> Silver Bullet 1992 Silverstone #17 EM BEGI System IV Turbo +
> Honey B 1992 Sunburst Yellow
>
> LowCountry Miata miata.net/lowcountry
> Masters Miata
> RAGS 074
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>
> To: <(email redacted)>
> Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 3:42 AM
> Subject: ...this darn AFPR business
>
>
> > Hey all,
> >
> > I'm helping out a friend get his JRSC working properly, and having some
> fuel problems, it runs lean under boost. Had the injectors (stock 1.6) sent
> away for cleaning. They came back damaged (grrr). Lent him my old 1.6
> injectors last night, and they work properly. So now at least that problem
> is solved. However, it still runs lean.
> >
> > Symptoms are o2 sensor voltage of about 0.7-0.75v at WOT and spark plug
> elbow are *clean*, i.e. not white, not sandy, not matte, just clean and a
> little shiny with a hint of bluish almost, as if they were new out of the
> box. Around the base of the threads it's black as it should be, and up
> inside the isolator is also black. There's no difference switching to other
> hotter or colder plugs. Fuel pressure is around 80psi dropping to 75psi by
> redline. So there's pressure at least. Other weird symptoms are a
> fluctuating fuel pressure. I've leant him my old Greddy Vortec fpr
> (functionally similar to Begi AFPR) and pressure fluctates still maybe +-5
> psi or so, JR fpr was fluctuating +-30psi...It never did that while on my
> car. FPR signal comes from the little nipple on the rear of the intake
> manifold (same place as my map sensor is hooked to on my car).
> >
> > I'm really stumped.
> >
> > Anyone have any clues as to what could be causing it to run lean? There's
> enough fuel, there's spark, I don't get it. There's no audible pinging and
> base timing iirc is around 8. All little band-aid black boxes and "crap" is
> removed to simplify things.
> >
> > Mike
> > 91 Link'd Greddy in Sweden
> >
>
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)

You say the fuel pressure is dropping at redline. How
are you measuring this? Gauge taped to the windshield
or some cockpit mounted gauge?

80 psi at what level of boost? What's the static
pressure at idle with the signal line off?

Where are your fluctuations occurring? Idle, non-boost
cruise, under constant level of boost during
acceleration or when stabbing the throttle and making a
WOT run with the boost starting lower and raising to
max, then dropping off?

I'd have to double check, but base pressure for the
stock fpr is around 45 psi and I used to run 54 with the
AFPR on the Aerodyne system, measured at idle with the
signal line off, (for reference).

If you're running a static pressure of 80 at idle, then
it's got to be going way too high at WOT.

Eric
> Fuel filter was changed when sc was installed, last fall and very few miles
> inbetween then and now. He even changed filter twice to make sure.
>
> What can cause the fluctuations in pressure, i.e. that it swings back and forth
> while using the afprs, almost like a self-resonance somehow? Is that the pump
> that's bad, any other way of checking this?
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Alster" <(email redacted)>
> To: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
> Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 12:07 PM
> Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business
>
>
> > You say fuel pressure is fine but then say it varies and drops. First in
> > line is a new filter. Then a new pump. It shouldn't be varying or
> > dropping.
> >
> >
> > Larry
> >
> > White Knight 1991 Crystal White #99 CSP
> > Silver Bullet 1992 Silverstone #17 EM BEGI System IV Turbo +
> > Honey B 1992 Sunburst Yellow
> >
> > LowCountry Miata miata.net/lowcountry
> > Masters Miata
> > RAGS 074
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>
> > To: <(email redacted)>
> > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 3:42 AM
> > Subject: ...this darn AFPR business
> >
> >
> > > Hey all,
> > >
> > > I'm helping out a friend get his JRSC working properly, and having some
> > fuel problems, it runs lean under boost. Had the injectors (stock 1.6) sent
> > away for cleaning. They came back damaged (grrr). Lent him my old 1.6
> > injectors last night, and they work properly. So now at least that problem
> > is solved. However, it still runs lean.
> > >
> > > Symptoms are o2 sensor voltage of about 0.7-0.75v at WOT and spark plug
> > elbow are *clean*, i.e. not white, not sandy, not matte, just clean and a
> > little shiny with a hint of bluish almost, as if they were new out of the
> > box. Around the base of the threads it's black as it should be, and up
> > inside the isolator is also black. There's no difference switching to other
> > hotter or colder plugs. Fuel pressure is around 80psi dropping to 75psi by
> > redline. So there's pressure at least. Other weird symptoms are a
> > fluctuating fuel pressure. I've leant him my old Greddy Vortec fpr
> > (functionally similar to Begi AFPR) and pressure fluctates still maybe +-5
> > psi or so, JR fpr was fluctuating +-30psi...It never did that while on my
> > car. FPR signal comes from the little nipple on the rear of the intake
> > manifold (same place as my map sensor is hooked to on my car).
> > >
> > > I'm really stumped.
> > >
> > > Anyone have any clues as to what could be causing it to run lean? There's
> > enough fuel, there's spark, I don't get it. There's no audible pinging and
> > base timing iirc is around 8. All little band-aid black boxes and "crap" is
> > removed to simplify things.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 91 Link'd Greddy in Sweden
> > >
> >
> >
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>

No no no ;) Sorry for being a little unclear.

Idle and "static" (i.e. 0 boost) is stock since AFPR (it's not really adjustable) is invisible unless boosting (no internal spring in Vortec fpr). That is, idle is just above 30 psi and static pressure around 45. Fuel pressure is measured with gauge stuck to window. It goes to 80 psi over about 4-5 psi boost (WOT boost is 6 psi) and drops to 75 between say 6-6500rpm or thereabouts, this seems to be the pump's maximum operating pressure at these conditions. Fluctuations are occuring as soon as fuel pressure goes above stock, i.e. as soon as the extra FPR starts working. Vortec fpr is very sensitive to boost and is almost "digital" in that little boost sends fuel pressure very high very quickly. Fluctuations are at perhaps 1-2Hz in frequency or so, not very fast but noticeable and "stable" as in even frequency and amplitude of about 5 psi. JR supplied FPR would fluctuate with higher amplitude (perhaps 30 psi) but similar frequency I believe.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: <(email redacted)>
To: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>
Cc: "Larry Alster" <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business


> You say the fuel pressure is dropping at redline. How
> are you measuring this? Gauge taped to the windshield
> or some cockpit mounted gauge?
>
> 80 psi at what level of boost? What's the static
> pressure at idle with the signal line off?
>
> Where are your fluctuations occurring? Idle, non-boost
> cruise, under constant level of boost during
> acceleration or when stabbing the throttle and making a
> WOT run with the boost starting lower and raising to
> max, then dropping off?
>
> I'd have to double check, but base pressure for the
> stock fpr is around 45 psi and I used to run 54 with the
> AFPR on the Aerodyne system, measured at idle with the
> signal line off, (for reference).
>
> If you're running a static pressure of 80 at idle, then
> it's got to be going way too high at WOT.
>
> Eric
> > Fuel filter was changed when sc was installed, last fall and very few miles
> > inbetween then and now. He even changed filter twice to make sure.
> >
> > What can cause the fluctuations in pressure, i.e. that it swings back and forth
> > while using the afprs, almost like a self-resonance somehow? Is that the pump
> > that's bad, any other way of checking this?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Larry Alster" <(email redacted)>
> > To: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
> > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 12:07 PM
> > Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business
> >
> >
> > > You say fuel pressure is fine but then say it varies and drops. First in
> > > line is a new filter. Then a new pump. It shouldn't be varying or
> > > dropping.
> > >
> > >
> > > Larry
> > >
> > > White Knight 1991 Crystal White #99 CSP
> > > Silver Bullet 1992 Silverstone #17 EM BEGI System IV Turbo +
> > > Honey B 1992 Sunburst Yellow
> > >
> > > LowCountry Miata miata.net/lowcountry
> > > Masters Miata
> > > RAGS 074
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>
> > > To: <(email redacted)>
> > > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 3:42 AM
> > > Subject: ...this darn AFPR business
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hey all,
> > > >
> > > > I'm helping out a friend get his JRSC working properly, and having some
> > > fuel problems, it runs lean under boost. Had the injectors (stock 1.6) sent
> > > away for cleaning. They came back damaged (grrr). Lent him my old 1.6
> > > injectors last night, and they work properly. So now at least that problem
> > > is solved. However, it still runs lean.
> > > >
> > > > Symptoms are o2 sensor voltage of about 0.7-0.75v at WOT and spark plug
> > > elbow are *clean*, i.e. not white, not sandy, not matte, just clean and a
> > > little shiny with a hint of bluish almost, as if they were new out of the
> > > box. Around the base of the threads it's black as it should be, and up
> > > inside the isolator is also black. There's no difference switching to other
> > > hotter or colder plugs. Fuel pressure is around 80psi dropping to 75psi by
> > > redline. So there's pressure at least. Other weird symptoms are a
> > > fluctuating fuel pressure. I've leant him my old Greddy Vortec fpr
> > > (functionally similar to Begi AFPR) and pressure fluctates still maybe +-5
> > > psi or so, JR fpr was fluctuating +-30psi...It never did that while on my
> > > car. FPR signal comes from the little nipple on the rear of the intake
> > > manifold (same place as my map sensor is hooked to on my car).
> > > >
> > > > I'm really stumped.
> > > >
> > > > Anyone have any clues as to what could be causing it to run lean? There's
> > > enough fuel, there's spark, I don't get it. There's no audible pinging and
> > > base timing iirc is around 8. All little band-aid black boxes and "crap" is
> > > removed to simplify things.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 91 Link'd Greddy in Sweden
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Barry Klein <(email redacted)>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Klein" <(email redacted)>
To: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 7:05 AM
Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business


> I'm seeing about 95 psi at full throttle, mixture is slightly on the rich
> side. I have a 1.8 with "Big Boost Kit", 10psi on the gauge. I'm using a
> high volume/pressure fuel pump, GSS342. This may be too much for a 1.6,
> check with Jackson Racing or others on the list. I was way too lean with
the
> original pump supplied with the JR kit, maxed out at about 75 psi.
>
> Regards,
> Barry
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>
> To: <(email redacted)>
> Cc: <(email redacted)>
> Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 5:59 AM
> Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business
>
>
> > No no no ;) Sorry for being a little unclear.
> >
> > Idle and "static" (i.e. 0 boost) is stock since AFPR (it's not really
> adjustable) is invisible unless boosting (no internal spring in Vortec
fpr).
> That is, idle is just above 30 psi and static pressure around 45. Fuel
> pressure is measured with gauge stuck to window. It goes to 80 psi over
> about 4-5 psi boost (WOT boost is 6 psi) and drops to 75 between say
> 6-6500rpm or thereabouts, this seems to be the pump's maximum operating
> pressure at these conditions. Fluctuations are occuring as soon as fuel
> pressure goes above stock, i.e. as soon as the extra FPR starts working.
> Vortec fpr is very sensitive to boost and is almost "digital" in that
little
> boost sends fuel pressure very high very quickly. Fluctuations are at
> perhaps 1-2Hz in frequency or so, not very fast but noticeable and
"stable"
> as in even frequency and amplitude of about 5 psi. JR supplied FPR would
> fluctuate with higher amplitude (perhaps 30 psi) but similar frequency I
> believe.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <(email redacted)>
> > To: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>
> > Cc: "Larry Alster" <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
> > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 2:41 PM
> > Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business
> >
> >
> > > You say the fuel pressure is dropping at redline. How
> > > are you measuring this? Gauge taped to the windshield
> > > or some cockpit mounted gauge?
> > >
> > > 80 psi at what level of boost? What's the static
> > > pressure at idle with the signal line off?
> > >
> > > Where are your fluctuations occurring? Idle, non-boost
> > > cruise, under constant level of boost during
> > > acceleration or when stabbing the throttle and making a
> > > WOT run with the boost starting lower and raising to
> > > max, then dropping off?
> > >
> > > I'd have to double check, but base pressure for the
> > > stock fpr is around 45 psi and I used to run 54 with the
> > > AFPR on the Aerodyne system, measured at idle with the
> > > signal line off, (for reference).
> > >
> > > If you're running a static pressure of 80 at idle, then
> > > it's got to be going way too high at WOT.
> > >
> > > Eric
> > > > Fuel filter was changed when sc was installed, last fall and very
few
> miles
> > > > inbetween then and now. He even changed filter twice to make sure.
> > > >
> > > > What can cause the fluctuations in pressure, i.e. that it swings
back
> and forth
> > > > while using the afprs, almost like a self-resonance somehow? Is that
> the pump
> > > > that's bad, any other way of checking this?
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Larry Alster" <(email redacted)>
> > > > To: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>;
> <(email redacted)>
> > > > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 12:07 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > You say fuel pressure is fine but then say it varies and drops.
> First in
> > > > > line is a new filter. Then a new pump. It shouldn't be varying
or
> > > > > dropping.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Larry
> > > > >
> > > > > White Knight 1991 Crystal White #99 CSP
> > > > > Silver Bullet 1992 Silverstone #17 EM BEGI System IV
Turbo
> +
> > > > > Honey B 1992 Sunburst Yellow
> > > > >
> > > > > LowCountry Miata miata.net/lowcountry
> > > > > Masters Miata
> > > > > RAGS 074
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>
> > > > > To: <(email redacted)>
> > > > > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 3:42 AM
> > > > > Subject: ...this darn AFPR business
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hey all,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm helping out a friend get his JRSC working properly, and
having
> some
> > > > > fuel problems, it runs lean under boost. Had the injectors (stock
> 1.6) sent
> > > > > away for cleaning. They came back damaged (grrr). Lent him my old
> 1.6
> > > > > injectors last night, and they work properly. So now at least that
> problem
> > > > > is solved. However, it still runs lean.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Symptoms are o2 sensor voltage of about 0.7-0.75v at WOT and
spark
> plug
> > > > > elbow are *clean*, i.e. not white, not sandy, not matte, just
clean
> and a
> > > > > little shiny with a hint of bluish almost, as if they were new out
> of the
> > > > > box. Around the base of the threads it's black as it should be,
and
> up
> > > > > inside the isolator is also black. There's no difference switching
> to other
> > > > > hotter or colder plugs. Fuel pressure is around 80psi dropping to
> 75psi by
> > > > > redline. So there's pressure at least. Other weird symptoms are a
> > > > > fluctuating fuel pressure. I've leant him my old Greddy Vortec fpr
> > > > > (functionally similar to Begi AFPR) and pressure fluctates still
> maybe +-5
> > > > > psi or so, JR fpr was fluctuating +-30psi...It never did that
while
> on my
> > > > > car. FPR signal comes from the little nipple on the rear of the
> intake
> > > > > manifold (same place as my map sensor is hooked to on my car).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm really stumped.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anyone have any clues as to what could be causing it to run
lean?
> There's
> > > > > enough fuel, there's spark, I don't get it. There's no audible
> pinging and
> > > > > base timing iirc is around 8. All little band-aid black boxes and
> "crap" is
> > > > > removed to simplify things.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 91 Link'd Greddy in Sweden
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Chris P" <(email redacted)>

The Greddy supplied Vortech Ratio is 12:1, perhaps same for jr, and you
really want 6:1. You can get a kit from Vortech to change that ratio. 75 -
80psi is the correct max for the stock pump (approximately).




>From: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>
>To: <(email redacted)>
>CC: <(email redacted)>
>Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business
>Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 14:59:57 +0200
>
>No no no ;) Sorry for being a little unclear.
>
>Idle and "static" (i.e. 0 boost) is stock since AFPR (it's not really
>adjustable) is invisible unless boosting (no internal spring in Vortec
>fpr). That is, idle is just above 30 psi and static pressure around 45.
>Fuel pressure is measured with gauge stuck to window. It goes to 80 psi
>over about 4-5 psi boost (WOT boost is 6 psi) and drops to 75 between say
>6-6500rpm or thereabouts, this seems to be the pump's maximum operating
>pressure at these conditions. Fluctuations are occuring as soon as fuel
>pressure goes above stock, i.e. as soon as the extra FPR starts working.
>Vortec fpr is very sensitive to boost and is almost "digital" in that
>little boost sends fuel pressure very high very quickly. Fluctuations are
>at perhaps 1-2Hz in frequency or so, not very fast but noticeable and
>"stable" as in even frequency and amplitude of about 5 psi. JR supplied FPR
>would fluctuate with higher amplitude (perhaps 30 psi) but similar
>frequency I believe.
>
>Mike
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <(email redacted)>
>To: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>
>Cc: "Larry Alster" <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
>Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 2:41 PM
>Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business
>
>
> > You say the fuel pressure is dropping at redline. How
> > are you measuring this? Gauge taped to the windshield
> > or some cockpit mounted gauge?
> >
> > 80 psi at what level of boost? What's the static
> > pressure at idle with the signal line off?
> >
> > Where are your fluctuations occurring? Idle, non-boost
> > cruise, under constant level of boost during
> > acceleration or when stabbing the throttle and making a
> > WOT run with the boost starting lower and raising to
> > max, then dropping off?
> >
> > I'd have to double check, but base pressure for the
> > stock fpr is around 45 psi and I used to run 54 with the
> > AFPR on the Aerodyne system, measured at idle with the
> > signal line off, (for reference).
> >
> > If you're running a static pressure of 80 at idle, then
> > it's got to be going way too high at WOT.
> >
> > Eric
> > > Fuel filter was changed when sc was installed, last fall and very few
>miles
> > > inbetween then and now. He even changed filter twice to make sure.
> > >
> > > What can cause the fluctuations in pressure, i.e. that it swings back
>and forth
> > > while using the afprs, almost like a self-resonance somehow? Is that
>the pump
> > > that's bad, any other way of checking this?
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Larry Alster" <(email redacted)>
> > > To: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>;
><(email redacted)>
> > > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 12:07 PM
> > > Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business
> > >
> > >
> > > > You say fuel pressure is fine but then say it varies and drops.
>First in
> > > > line is a new filter. Then a new pump. It shouldn't be varying or
> > > > dropping.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Larry
> > > >
> > > > White Knight 1991 Crystal White #99 CSP
> > > > Silver Bullet 1992 Silverstone #17 EM BEGI System IV Turbo
>+
> > > > Honey B 1992 Sunburst Yellow
> > > >
> > > > LowCountry Miata miata.net/lowcountry
> > > > Masters Miata
> > > > RAGS 074
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>
> > > > To: <(email redacted)>
> > > > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 3:42 AM
> > > > Subject: ...this darn AFPR business
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hey all,
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm helping out a friend get his JRSC working properly, and having
>some
> > > > fuel problems, it runs lean under boost. Had the injectors (stock
>1.6) sent
> > > > away for cleaning. They came back damaged (grrr). Lent him my old
>1.6
> > > > injectors last night, and they work properly. So now at least that
>problem
> > > > is solved. However, it still runs lean.
> > > > >
> > > > > Symptoms are o2 sensor voltage of about 0.7-0.75v at WOT and spark
>plug
> > > > elbow are *clean*, i.e. not white, not sandy, not matte, just clean
>and a
> > > > little shiny with a hint of bluish almost, as if they were new out
>of the
> > > > box. Around the base of the threads it's black as it should be, and
>up
> > > > inside the isolator is also black. There's no difference switching
>to other
> > > > hotter or colder plugs. Fuel pressure is around 80psi dropping to
>75psi by
> > > > redline. So there's pressure at least. Other weird symptoms are a
> > > > fluctuating fuel pressure. I've leant him my old Greddy Vortec fpr
> > > > (functionally similar to Begi AFPR) and pressure fluctates still
>maybe +-5
> > > > psi or so, JR fpr was fluctuating +-30psi...It never did that while
>on my
> > > > car. FPR signal comes from the little nipple on the rear of the
>intake
> > > > manifold (same place as my map sensor is hooked to on my car).
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm really stumped.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyone have any clues as to what could be causing it to run lean?
>There's
> > > > enough fuel, there's spark, I don't get it. There's no audible
>pinging and
> > > > base timing iirc is around 8. All little band-aid black boxes and
>"crap" is
> > > > removed to simplify things.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 91 Link'd Greddy in Sweden
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >




_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
hotmail.com

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>

At this point, it doesn't really matter what the ratio is, since it only goes up to the max of the pump anyway, it would be the same end-result if (I guess) just clamping some pliers on the return hose. It might make for a funny scene running along trying to hold on to those pliers but I've been through more embarrassing situations ... ;)

I guess a new pump might be in order since this seems to be the consensus both on- and off the list. Thanks for all the suggestions, keep 'em comin!

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris P" <(email redacted)>
To: <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
Cc: <(email redacted)>
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business


> The Greddy supplied Vortech Ratio is 12:1, perhaps same for jr, and you
> really want 6:1. You can get a kit from Vortech to change that ratio. 75 -
> 80psi is the correct max for the stock pump (approximately).
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>
> >To: <(email redacted)>
> >CC: <(email redacted)>
> >Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business
> >Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 14:59:57 +0200
> >
> >No no no ;) Sorry for being a little unclear.
> >
> >Idle and "static" (i.e. 0 boost) is stock since AFPR (it's not really
> >adjustable) is invisible unless boosting (no internal spring in Vortec
> >fpr). That is, idle is just above 30 psi and static pressure around 45.
> >Fuel pressure is measured with gauge stuck to window. It goes to 80 psi
> >over about 4-5 psi boost (WOT boost is 6 psi) and drops to 75 between say
> >6-6500rpm or thereabouts, this seems to be the pump's maximum operating
> >pressure at these conditions. Fluctuations are occuring as soon as fuel
> >pressure goes above stock, i.e. as soon as the extra FPR starts working.
> >Vortec fpr is very sensitive to boost and is almost "digital" in that
> >little boost sends fuel pressure very high very quickly. Fluctuations are
> >at perhaps 1-2Hz in frequency or so, not very fast but noticeable and
> >"stable" as in even frequency and amplitude of about 5 psi. JR supplied FPR
> >would fluctuate with higher amplitude (perhaps 30 psi) but similar
> >frequency I believe.
> >
> >Mike
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <(email redacted)>
> >To: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>
> >Cc: "Larry Alster" <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
> >Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 2:41 PM
> >Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business
> >
> >
> > > You say the fuel pressure is dropping at redline. How
> > > are you measuring this? Gauge taped to the windshield
> > > or some cockpit mounted gauge?
> > >
> > > 80 psi at what level of boost? What's the static
> > > pressure at idle with the signal line off?
> > >
> > > Where are your fluctuations occurring? Idle, non-boost
> > > cruise, under constant level of boost during
> > > acceleration or when stabbing the throttle and making a
> > > WOT run with the boost starting lower and raising to
> > > max, then dropping off?
> > >
> > > I'd have to double check, but base pressure for the
> > > stock fpr is around 45 psi and I used to run 54 with the
> > > AFPR on the Aerodyne system, measured at idle with the
> > > signal line off, (for reference).
> > >
> > > If you're running a static pressure of 80 at idle, then
> > > it's got to be going way too high at WOT.
> > >
> > > Eric
> > > > Fuel filter was changed when sc was installed, last fall and very few
> >miles
> > > > inbetween then and now. He even changed filter twice to make sure.
> > > >
> > > > What can cause the fluctuations in pressure, i.e. that it swings back
> >and forth
> > > > while using the afprs, almost like a self-resonance somehow? Is that
> >the pump
> > > > that's bad, any other way of checking this?
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Larry Alster" <(email redacted)>
> > > > To: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>;
> ><(email redacted)>
> > > > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 12:07 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > You say fuel pressure is fine but then say it varies and drops.
> >First in
> > > > > line is a new filter. Then a new pump. It shouldn't be varying or
> > > > > dropping.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Larry
> > > > >
> > > > > White Knight 1991 Crystal White #99 CSP
> > > > > Silver Bullet 1992 Silverstone #17 EM BEGI System IV Turbo
> >+
> > > > > Honey B 1992 Sunburst Yellow
> > > > >
> > > > > LowCountry Miata miata.net/lowcountry
> > > > > Masters Miata
> > > > > RAGS 074
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>
> > > > > To: <(email redacted)>
> > > > > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 3:42 AM
> > > > > Subject: ...this darn AFPR business
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hey all,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm helping out a friend get his JRSC working properly, and having
> >some
> > > > > fuel problems, it runs lean under boost. Had the injectors (stock
> >1.6) sent
> > > > > away for cleaning. They came back damaged (grrr). Lent him my old
> >1.6
> > > > > injectors last night, and they work properly. So now at least that
> >problem
> > > > > is solved. However, it still runs lean.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Symptoms are o2 sensor voltage of about 0.7-0.75v at WOT and spark
> >plug
> > > > > elbow are *clean*, i.e. not white, not sandy, not matte, just clean
> >and a
> > > > > little shiny with a hint of bluish almost, as if they were new out
> >of the
> > > > > box. Around the base of the threads it's black as it should be, and
> >up
> > > > > inside the isolator is also black. There's no difference switching
> >to other
> > > > > hotter or colder plugs. Fuel pressure is around 80psi dropping to
> >75psi by
> > > > > redline. So there's pressure at least. Other weird symptoms are a
> > > > > fluctuating fuel pressure. I've leant him my old Greddy Vortec fpr
> > > > > (functionally similar to Begi AFPR) and pressure fluctates still
> >maybe +-5
> > > > > psi or so, JR fpr was fluctuating +-30psi...It never did that while
> >on my
> > > > > car. FPR signal comes from the little nipple on the rear of the
> >intake
> > > > > manifold (same place as my map sensor is hooked to on my car).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm really stumped.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anyone have any clues as to what could be causing it to run lean?
> >There's
> > > > > enough fuel, there's spark, I don't get it. There's no audible
> >pinging and
> > > > > base timing iirc is around 8. All little band-aid black boxes and
> >"crap" is
> > > > > removed to simplify things.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 91 Link'd Greddy in Sweden
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> hotmail.com
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Eric Vaillancourt" <(email redacted)>

=46rom what we've covered so far on the list it sounds like a fuel volume
issue, rather than a fuel pressure issue. You can make 80 psi, but not h=
old
it at higher injector pulse widths, from your description. This might
account for some of the fluctuation you see.

The Pierburg pumps offered an increase in both, seems like the Walbro one=
s
were one a high volume and one a high pressure/high volume version. I al=
so
seem to recall someone mentioning a Bosch pump that is close to the equal=
of
the Pierburg. You might want to search the archives.

Eric
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>
To: "Chris P" <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
Cc: <(email redacted)>
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 7:21 AM
Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business


At this point, it doesn't really matter what the ratio is, since it only
goes up to the max of the pump anyway, it would be the same end-result if=
(I
guess) just clamping some pliers on the return hose. It might make for a
funny scene running along trying to hold on to those pliers but I've been
through more embarrassing situations ... ;)

I guess a new pump might be in order since this seems to be the consensus
both on- and off the list. Thanks for all the suggestions, keep 'em comin=
!

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris P" <(email redacted)>
To: <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
Cc: <(email redacted)>
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business


> The Greddy supplied Vortech Ratio is 12:1, perhaps same for jr, and you
> really want 6:1. You can get a kit from Vortech to change that ratio. 7=
5 -
> 80psi is the correct max for the stock pump (approximately).
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>
> >To: <(email redacted)>
> >CC: <(email redacted)>
> >Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business
> >Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 14:59:57 +0200
> >
> >No no no ;) Sorry for being a little unclear.
> >
> >Idle and "static" (i.e. 0 boost) is stock since AFPR (it's not really
> >adjustable) is invisible unless boosting (no internal spring in Vortec
> >fpr). That is, idle is just above 30 psi and static pressure around 45=
=2E
> >Fuel pressure is measured with gauge stuck to window. It goes to 80 ps=
i
> >over about 4-5 psi boost (WOT boost is 6 psi) and drops to 75 between =
say
> >6-6500rpm or thereabouts, this seems to be the pump's maximum operatin=
g
> >pressure at these conditions. Fluctuations are occuring as soon as fue=
l
> >pressure goes above stock, i.e. as soon as the extra FPR starts workin=
g.
> >Vortec fpr is very sensitive to boost and is almost "digital" in that
> >little boost sends fuel pressure very high very quickly. Fluctuations =
are
> >at perhaps 1-2Hz in frequency or so, not very fast but noticeable and
> >"stable" as in even frequency and amplitude of about 5 psi. JR supplie=
d
FPR
> >would fluctuate with higher amplitude (perhaps 30 psi) but similar
> >frequency I believe.
> >
> >Mike
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <(email redacted)>
> >To: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>
> >Cc: "Larry Alster" <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
> >Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 2:41 PM
> >Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business
> >
> >
> > > You say the fuel pressure is dropping at redline. How
> > > are you measuring this? Gauge taped to the windshield
> > > or some cockpit mounted gauge?
> > >
> > > 80 psi at what level of boost? What's the static
> > > pressure at idle with the signal line off?
> > >
> > > Where are your fluctuations occurring? Idle, non-boost
> > > cruise, under constant level of boost during
> > > acceleration or when stabbing the throttle and making a
> > > WOT run with the boost starting lower and raising to
> > > max, then dropping off?
> > >
> > > I'd have to double check, but base pressure for the
> > > stock fpr is around 45 psi and I used to run 54 with the
> > > AFPR on the Aerodyne system, measured at idle with the
> > > signal line off, (for reference).
> > >
> > > If you're running a static pressure of 80 at idle, then
> > > it's got to be going way too high at WOT.
> > >
> > > Eric
> > > > Fuel filter was changed when sc was installed, last fall and very
few
> >miles
> > > > inbetween then and now. He even changed filter twice to make sure=
=2E
> > > >
> > > > What can cause the fluctuations in pressure, i.e. that it swings
back
> >and forth
> > > > while using the afprs, almost like a self-resonance somehow? Is t=
hat
> >the pump
> > > > that's bad, any other way of checking this?
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Larry Alster" <(email redacted)>
> > > > To: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>;
> ><(email redacted)>
> > > > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 12:07 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > You say fuel pressure is fine but then say it varies and drops.
> >First in
> > > > > line is a new filter. Then a new pump. It shouldn't be varyin=
g
or
> > > > > dropping.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Larry
> > > > >
> > > > > White Knight 1991 Crystal White #99 CSP
> > > > > Silver Bullet 1992 Silverstone #17 EM BEGI System IV
Turbo
> >+
> > > > > Honey B 1992 Sunburst Yellow
> > > > >
> > > > > LowCountry Miata miata.net/lowcountry
> > > > > Masters Miata
> > > > > RAGS 074
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>
> > > > > To: <(email redacted)>
> > > > > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 3:42 AM
> > > > > Subject: ...this darn AFPR business
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hey all,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm helping out a friend get his JRSC working properly, and
having
> >some
> > > > > fuel problems, it runs lean under boost. Had the injectors (sto=
ck
> >1.6) sent
> > > > > away for cleaning. They came back damaged (grrr). Lent him my o=
ld
> >1.6
> > > > > injectors last night, and they work properly. So now at least t=
hat
> >problem
> > > > > is solved. However, it still runs lean.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Symptoms are o2 sensor voltage of about 0.7-0.75v at WOT and
spark
> >plug
> > > > > elbow are *clean*, i.e. not white, not sandy, not matte, just
clean
> >and a
> > > > > little shiny with a hint of bluish almost, as if they were new =
out
> >of the
> > > > > box. Around the base of the threads it's black as it should be,
and
> >up
> > > > > inside the isolator is also black. There's no difference switch=
ing
> >to other
> > > > > hotter or colder plugs. Fuel pressure is around 80psi dropping =
to
> >75psi by
> > > > > redline. So there's pressure at least. Other weird symptoms are=
a
> > > > > fluctuating fuel pressure. I've leant him my old Greddy Vortec =
fpr
> > > > > (functionally similar to Begi AFPR) and pressure fluctates stil=
l
> >maybe +-5
> > > > > psi or so, JR fpr was fluctuating +-30psi...It never did that
while
> >on my
> > > > > car. FPR signal comes from the little nipple on the rear of the
> >intake
> > > > > manifold (same place as my map sensor is hooked to on my car).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm really stumped.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anyone have any clues as to what could be causing it to run
lean?
> >There's
> > > > > enough fuel, there's spark, I don't get it. There's no audible
> >pinging and
> > > > > base timing iirc is around 8. All little band-aid black boxes a=
nd
> >"crap" is
> > > > > removed to simplify things.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 91 Link'd Greddy in Sweden
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> hotmail.com
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>

thanks, I guess you're right (just didn't want to see the obvious answer). I have a bosch sitting in a box at home. It's one noisy sucker. So I took it out since I went programmable ecu. I guess mounting it would be a way for him to test this theory. There's lots of info on the different walbro pumps at the forum btw.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Vaillancourt" <(email redacted)>
To: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>; "Chris P" <(email redacted)>
Cc: <(email redacted)>
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 4:53 PM
Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business


> From what we've covered so far on the list it sounds like a fuel volume
> issue, rather than a fuel pressure issue. You can make 80 psi, but not hold
> it at higher injector pulse widths, from your description. This might
> account for some of the fluctuation you see.
>
> The Pierburg pumps offered an increase in both, seems like the Walbro ones
> were one a high volume and one a high pressure/high volume version. I also
> seem to recall someone mentioning a Bosch pump that is close to the equal of
> the Pierburg. You might want to search the archives.
>
> Eric
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>
> To: "Chris P" <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
> Cc: <(email redacted)>
> Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 7:21 AM
> Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business
>
>
> At this point, it doesn't really matter what the ratio is, since it only
> goes up to the max of the pump anyway, it would be the same end-result if (I
> guess) just clamping some pliers on the return hose. It might make for a
> funny scene running along trying to hold on to those pliers but I've been
> through more embarrassing situations ... ;)
>
> I guess a new pump might be in order since this seems to be the consensus
> both on- and off the list. Thanks for all the suggestions, keep 'em comin!
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris P" <(email redacted)>
> To: <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
> Cc: <(email redacted)>
> Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 4:10 PM
> Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business
>
>
> > The Greddy supplied Vortech Ratio is 12:1, perhaps same for jr, and you
> > really want 6:1. You can get a kit from Vortech to change that ratio. 75 -
> > 80psi is the correct max for the stock pump (approximately).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>
> > >To: <(email redacted)>
> > >CC: <(email redacted)>
> > >Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business
> > >Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 14:59:57 +0200
> > >
> > >No no no ;) Sorry for being a little unclear.
> > >
> > >Idle and "static" (i.e. 0 boost) is stock since AFPR (it's not really
> > >adjustable) is invisible unless boosting (no internal spring in Vortec
> > >fpr). That is, idle is just above 30 psi and static pressure around 45.
> > >Fuel pressure is measured with gauge stuck to window. It goes to 80 psi
> > >over about 4-5 psi boost (WOT boost is 6 psi) and drops to 75 between say
> > >6-6500rpm or thereabouts, this seems to be the pump's maximum operating
> > >pressure at these conditions. Fluctuations are occuring as soon as fuel
> > >pressure goes above stock, i.e. as soon as the extra FPR starts working.
> > >Vortec fpr is very sensitive to boost and is almost "digital" in that
> > >little boost sends fuel pressure very high very quickly. Fluctuations are
> > >at perhaps 1-2Hz in frequency or so, not very fast but noticeable and
> > >"stable" as in even frequency and amplitude of about 5 psi. JR supplied
> FPR
> > >would fluctuate with higher amplitude (perhaps 30 psi) but similar
> > >frequency I believe.
> > >
> > >Mike
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: <(email redacted)>
> > >To: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>
> > >Cc: "Larry Alster" <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
> > >Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 2:41 PM
> > >Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business
> > >
> > >
> > > > You say the fuel pressure is dropping at redline. How
> > > > are you measuring this? Gauge taped to the windshield
> > > > or some cockpit mounted gauge?
> > > >
> > > > 80 psi at what level of boost? What's the static
> > > > pressure at idle with the signal line off?
> > > >
> > > > Where are your fluctuations occurring? Idle, non-boost
> > > > cruise, under constant level of boost during
> > > > acceleration or when stabbing the throttle and making a
> > > > WOT run with the boost starting lower and raising to
> > > > max, then dropping off?
> > > >
> > > > I'd have to double check, but base pressure for the
> > > > stock fpr is around 45 psi and I used to run 54 with the
> > > > AFPR on the Aerodyne system, measured at idle with the
> > > > signal line off, (for reference).
> > > >
> > > > If you're running a static pressure of 80 at idle, then
> > > > it's got to be going way too high at WOT.
> > > >
> > > > Eric
> > > > > Fuel filter was changed when sc was installed, last fall and very
> few
> > >miles
> > > > > inbetween then and now. He even changed filter twice to make sure.
> > > > >
> > > > > What can cause the fluctuations in pressure, i.e. that it swings
> back
> > >and forth
> > > > > while using the afprs, almost like a self-resonance somehow? Is that
> > >the pump
> > > > > that's bad, any other way of checking this?
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Larry Alster" <(email redacted)>
> > > > > To: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>;
> > ><(email redacted)>
> > > > > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 12:07 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > You say fuel pressure is fine but then say it varies and drops.
> > >First in
> > > > > > line is a new filter. Then a new pump. It shouldn't be varying
> or
> > > > > > dropping.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Larry
> > > > > >
> > > > > > White Knight 1991 Crystal White #99 CSP
> > > > > > Silver Bullet 1992 Silverstone #17 EM BEGI System IV
> Turbo
> > >+
> > > > > > Honey B 1992 Sunburst Yellow
> > > > > >
> > > > > > LowCountry Miata miata.net/lowcountry
> > > > > > Masters Miata
> > > > > > RAGS 074
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>
> > > > > > To: <(email redacted)>
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 3:42 AM
> > > > > > Subject: ...this darn AFPR business
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hey all,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm helping out a friend get his JRSC working properly, and
> having
> > >some
> > > > > > fuel problems, it runs lean under boost. Had the injectors (stock
> > >1.6) sent
> > > > > > away for cleaning. They came back damaged (grrr). Lent him my old
> > >1.6
> > > > > > injectors last night, and they work properly. So now at least that
> > >problem
> > > > > > is solved. However, it still runs lean.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Symptoms are o2 sensor voltage of about 0.7-0.75v at WOT and
> spark
> > >plug
> > > > > > elbow are *clean*, i.e. not white, not sandy, not matte, just
> clean
> > >and a
> > > > > > little shiny with a hint of bluish almost, as if they were new out
> > >of the
> > > > > > box. Around the base of the threads it's black as it should be,
> and
> > >up
> > > > > > inside the isolator is also black. There's no difference switching
> > >to other
> > > > > > hotter or colder plugs. Fuel pressure is around 80psi dropping to
> > >75psi by
> > > > > > redline. So there's pressure at least. Other weird symptoms are a
> > > > > > fluctuating fuel pressure. I've leant him my old Greddy Vortec fpr
> > > > > > (functionally similar to Begi AFPR) and pressure fluctates still
> > >maybe +-5
> > > > > > psi or so, JR fpr was fluctuating +-30psi...It never did that
> while
> > >on my
> > > > > > car. FPR signal comes from the little nipple on the rear of the
> > >intake
> > > > > > manifold (same place as my map sensor is hooked to on my car).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm really stumped.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Anyone have any clues as to what could be causing it to run
> lean?
> > >There's
> > > > > > enough fuel, there's spark, I don't get it. There's no audible
> > >pinging and
> > > > > > base timing iirc is around 8. All little band-aid black boxes and
> > >"crap" is
> > > > > > removed to simplify things.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > 91 Link'd Greddy in Sweden
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> > hotmail.com
> >
>
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Larry Alster" <(email redacted)>

I also think your expectations are a little low. Using Corky's formula of 6
lbs. of FP per LB of boost. 6x6=36 added your base of somewhere around 45
means you need at least 81 PSI and your not getting that anyway. An you
might need to be closer to 50 PSI base pressure making the end 86 PSI.

Larry Alster

1991 "White Knight" CSP #99
1992 "Silver Bullet" EM #17 BEGI System 4.2+
1992 "Honey Bee"


----- Original Message -----
From: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>
To: "Eric Vaillancourt" <(email redacted)>
Cc: <(email redacted)>
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business


> thanks, I guess you're right (just didn't want to see the obvious answer).
I have a bosch sitting in a box at home. It's one noisy sucker. So I took it
out since I went programmable ecu. I guess mounting it would be a way for
him to test this theory. There's lots of info on the different walbro pumps
at the forum btw.
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Eric Vaillancourt" <(email redacted)>
> To: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>; "Chris P"
<(email redacted)>
> Cc: <(email redacted)>
> Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 4:53 PM
> Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business
>
>
> > From what we've covered so far on the list it sounds like a fuel volume
> > issue, rather than a fuel pressure issue. You can make 80 psi, but not
hold
> > it at higher injector pulse widths, from your description. This might
> > account for some of the fluctuation you see.
> >
> > The Pierburg pumps offered an increase in both, seems like the Walbro
ones
> > were one a high volume and one a high pressure/high volume version. I
also
> > seem to recall someone mentioning a Bosch pump that is close to the
equal of
> > the Pierburg. You might want to search the archives.
> >
> > Eric
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>
> > To: "Chris P" <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
> > Cc: <(email redacted)>
> > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 7:21 AM
> > Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business
> >
> >
> > At this point, it doesn't really matter what the ratio is, since it only
> > goes up to the max of the pump anyway, it would be the same end-result
if (I
> > guess) just clamping some pliers on the return hose. It might make for a
> > funny scene running along trying to hold on to those pliers but I've
been
> > through more embarrassing situations ... ;)
> >
> > I guess a new pump might be in order since this seems to be the
consensus
> > both on- and off the list. Thanks for all the suggestions, keep 'em
comin!
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Chris P" <(email redacted)>
> > To: <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
> > Cc: <(email redacted)>
> > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 4:10 PM
> > Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business
> >
> >
> > > The Greddy supplied Vortech Ratio is 12:1, perhaps same for jr, and
you
> > > really want 6:1. You can get a kit from Vortech to change that ratio.
75 -
> > > 80psi is the correct max for the stock pump (approximately).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>
> > > >To: <(email redacted)>
> > > >CC: <(email redacted)>
> > > >Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business
> > > >Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 14:59:57 +0200
> > > >
> > > >No no no ;) Sorry for being a little unclear.
> > > >
> > > >Idle and "static" (i.e. 0 boost) is stock since AFPR (it's not really
> > > >adjustable) is invisible unless boosting (no internal spring in
Vortec
> > > >fpr). That is, idle is just above 30 psi and static pressure around
45.
> > > >Fuel pressure is measured with gauge stuck to window. It goes to 80
psi
> > > >over about 4-5 psi boost (WOT boost is 6 psi) and drops to 75 between
say
> > > >6-6500rpm or thereabouts, this seems to be the pump's maximum
operating
> > > >pressure at these conditions. Fluctuations are occuring as soon as
fuel
> > > >pressure goes above stock, i.e. as soon as the extra FPR starts
working.
> > > >Vortec fpr is very sensitive to boost and is almost "digital" in that
> > > >little boost sends fuel pressure very high very quickly. Fluctuations
are
> > > >at perhaps 1-2Hz in frequency or so, not very fast but noticeable and
> > > >"stable" as in even frequency and amplitude of about 5 psi. JR
supplied
> > FPR
> > > >would fluctuate with higher amplitude (perhaps 30 psi) but similar
> > > >frequency I believe.
> > > >
> > > >Mike
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: <(email redacted)>
> > > >To: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>
> > > >Cc: "Larry Alster" <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
> > > >Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 2:41 PM
> > > >Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > You say the fuel pressure is dropping at redline. How
> > > > > are you measuring this? Gauge taped to the windshield
> > > > > or some cockpit mounted gauge?
> > > > >
> > > > > 80 psi at what level of boost? What's the static
> > > > > pressure at idle with the signal line off?
> > > > >
> > > > > Where are your fluctuations occurring? Idle, non-boost
> > > > > cruise, under constant level of boost during
> > > > > acceleration or when stabbing the throttle and making a
> > > > > WOT run with the boost starting lower and raising to
> > > > > max, then dropping off?
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd have to double check, but base pressure for the
> > > > > stock fpr is around 45 psi and I used to run 54 with the
> > > > > AFPR on the Aerodyne system, measured at idle with the
> > > > > signal line off, (for reference).
> > > > >
> > > > > If you're running a static pressure of 80 at idle, then
> > > > > it's got to be going way too high at WOT.
> > > > >
> > > > > Eric
> > > > > > Fuel filter was changed when sc was installed, last fall and
very
> > few
> > > >miles
> > > > > > inbetween then and now. He even changed filter twice to make
sure.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What can cause the fluctuations in pressure, i.e. that it swings
> > back
> > > >and forth
> > > > > > while using the afprs, almost like a self-resonance somehow? Is
that
> > > >the pump
> > > > > > that's bad, any other way of checking this?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Larry Alster" <(email redacted)>
> > > > > > To: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>;
> > > ><(email redacted)>
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 12:07 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > You say fuel pressure is fine but then say it varies and
drops.
> > > >First in
> > > > > > > line is a new filter. Then a new pump. It shouldn't be
varying
> > or
> > > > > > > dropping.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Larry
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > White Knight 1991 Crystal White #99 CSP
> > > > > > > Silver Bullet 1992 Silverstone #17 EM BEGI System IV
> > Turbo
> > > >+
> > > > > > > Honey B 1992 Sunburst Yellow
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > LowCountry Miata miata.net/lowcountry
> > > > > > > Masters Miata
> > > > > > > RAGS 074
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>
> > > > > > > To: <(email redacted)>
> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 3:42 AM
> > > > > > > Subject: ...this darn AFPR business
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hey all,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'm helping out a friend get his JRSC working properly, and
> > having
> > > >some
> > > > > > > fuel problems, it runs lean under boost. Had the injectors
(stock
> > > >1.6) sent
> > > > > > > away for cleaning. They came back damaged (grrr). Lent him my
old
> > > >1.6
> > > > > > > injectors last night, and they work properly. So now at least
that
> > > >problem
> > > > > > > is solved. However, it still runs lean.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Symptoms are o2 sensor voltage of about 0.7-0.75v at WOT and
> > spark
> > > >plug
> > > > > > > elbow are *clean*, i.e. not white, not sandy, not matte, just
> > clean
> > > >and a
> > > > > > > little shiny with a hint of bluish almost, as if they were new
out
> > > >of the
> > > > > > > box. Around the base of the threads it's black as it should
be,
> > and
> > > >up
> > > > > > > inside the isolator is also black. There's no difference
switching
> > > >to other
> > > > > > > hotter or colder plugs. Fuel pressure is around 80psi dropping
to
> > > >75psi by
> > > > > > > redline. So there's pressure at least. Other weird symptoms
are a
> > > > > > > fluctuating fuel pressure. I've leant him my old Greddy Vortec
fpr
> > > > > > > (functionally similar to Begi AFPR) and pressure fluctates
still
> > > >maybe +-5
> > > > > > > psi or so, JR fpr was fluctuating +-30psi...It never did that
> > while
> > > >on my
> > > > > > > car. FPR signal comes from the little nipple on the rear of
the
> > > >intake
> > > > > > > manifold (same place as my map sensor is hooked to on my car).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'm really stumped.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Anyone have any clues as to what could be causing it to run
> > lean?
> > > >There's
> > > > > > > enough fuel, there's spark, I don't get it. There's no audible
> > > >pinging and
> > > > > > > base timing iirc is around 8. All little band-aid black boxes
and
> > > >"crap" is
> > > > > > > removed to simplify things.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > > 91 Link'd Greddy in Sweden
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> > > hotmail.com
> > >
> >
> >
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Barry Klein <(email redacted)>

Don't worry about the AFPR ratio with the JR supercharger. It's an on/off
situation, not like a turbo. You're either at full boost or off boost, due
to the bypass valve arrangement. Just make sure you're slightly rich at full
throttle, high rpm so the pistons are happy.

Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>
To: "Eric Vaillancourt" <(email redacted)>
Cc: <(email redacted)>
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 8:00 AM
Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business


> thanks, I guess you're right (just didn't want to see the obvious answer).
I have a bosch sitting in a box at home. It's one noisy sucker. So I took it
out since I went programmable ecu. I guess mounting it would be a way for
him to test this theory. There's lots of info on the different walbro pumps
at the forum btw.
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Eric Vaillancourt" <(email redacted)>
> To: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>; "Chris P"
<(email redacted)>
> Cc: <(email redacted)>
> Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 4:53 PM
> Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business
>
>
> > From what we've covered so far on the list it sounds like a fuel volume
> > issue, rather than a fuel pressure issue. You can make 80 psi, but not
hold
> > it at higher injector pulse widths, from your description. This might
> > account for some of the fluctuation you see.
> >
> > The Pierburg pumps offered an increase in both, seems like the Walbro
ones
> > were one a high volume and one a high pressure/high volume version. I
also
> > seem to recall someone mentioning a Bosch pump that is close to the
equal of
> > the Pierburg. You might want to search the archives.
> >
> > Eric
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>
> > To: "Chris P" <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
> > Cc: <(email redacted)>
> > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 7:21 AM
> > Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business
> >
> >
> > At this point, it doesn't really matter what the ratio is, since it only
> > goes up to the max of the pump anyway, it would be the same end-result
if (I
> > guess) just clamping some pliers on the return hose. It might make for a
> > funny scene running along trying to hold on to those pliers but I've
been
> > through more embarrassing situations ... ;)
> >
> > I guess a new pump might be in order since this seems to be the
consensus
> > both on- and off the list. Thanks for all the suggestions, keep 'em
comin!
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Chris P" <(email redacted)>
> > To: <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
> > Cc: <(email redacted)>
> > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 4:10 PM
> > Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business
> >
> >
> > > The Greddy supplied Vortech Ratio is 12:1, perhaps same for jr, and
you
> > > really want 6:1. You can get a kit from Vortech to change that ratio.
75 -
> > > 80psi is the correct max for the stock pump (approximately).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>
> > > >To: <(email redacted)>
> > > >CC: <(email redacted)>
> > > >Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business
> > > >Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 14:59:57 +0200
> > > >
> > > >No no no ;) Sorry for being a little unclear.
> > > >
> > > >Idle and "static" (i.e. 0 boost) is stock since AFPR (it's not really
> > > >adjustable) is invisible unless boosting (no internal spring in
Vortec
> > > >fpr). That is, idle is just above 30 psi and static pressure around
45.
> > > >Fuel pressure is measured with gauge stuck to window. It goes to 80
psi
> > > >over about 4-5 psi boost (WOT boost is 6 psi) and drops to 75 between
say
> > > >6-6500rpm or thereabouts, this seems to be the pump's maximum
operating
> > > >pressure at these conditions. Fluctuations are occuring as soon as
fuel
> > > >pressure goes above stock, i.e. as soon as the extra FPR starts
working.
> > > >Vortec fpr is very sensitive to boost and is almost "digital" in that
> > > >little boost sends fuel pressure very high very quickly. Fluctuations
are
> > > >at perhaps 1-2Hz in frequency or so, not very fast but noticeable and
> > > >"stable" as in even frequency and amplitude of about 5 psi. JR
supplied
> > FPR
> > > >would fluctuate with higher amplitude (perhaps 30 psi) but similar
> > > >frequency I believe.
> > > >
> > > >Mike
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: <(email redacted)>
> > > >To: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>
> > > >Cc: "Larry Alster" <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
> > > >Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 2:41 PM
> > > >Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > You say the fuel pressure is dropping at redline. How
> > > > > are you measuring this? Gauge taped to the windshield
> > > > > or some cockpit mounted gauge?
> > > > >
> > > > > 80 psi at what level of boost? What's the static
> > > > > pressure at idle with the signal line off?
> > > > >
> > > > > Where are your fluctuations occurring? Idle, non-boost
> > > > > cruise, under constant level of boost during
> > > > > acceleration or when stabbing the throttle and making a
> > > > > WOT run with the boost starting lower and raising to
> > > > > max, then dropping off?
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd have to double check, but base pressure for the
> > > > > stock fpr is around 45 psi and I used to run 54 with the
> > > > > AFPR on the Aerodyne system, measured at idle with the
> > > > > signal line off, (for reference).
> > > > >
> > > > > If you're running a static pressure of 80 at idle, then
> > > > > it's got to be going way too high at WOT.
> > > > >
> > > > > Eric
> > > > > > Fuel filter was changed when sc was installed, last fall and
very
> > few
> > > >miles
> > > > > > inbetween then and now. He even changed filter twice to make
sure.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What can cause the fluctuations in pressure, i.e. that it swings
> > back
> > > >and forth
> > > > > > while using the afprs, almost like a self-resonance somehow? Is
that
> > > >the pump
> > > > > > that's bad, any other way of checking this?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Larry Alster" <(email redacted)>
> > > > > > To: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>;
> > > ><(email redacted)>
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 12:07 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: ...this darn AFPR business
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > You say fuel pressure is fine but then say it varies and
drops.
> > > >First in
> > > > > > > line is a new filter. Then a new pump. It shouldn't be
varying
> > or
> > > > > > > dropping.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Larry
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > White Knight 1991 Crystal White #99 CSP
> > > > > > > Silver Bullet 1992 Silverstone #17 EM BEGI System IV
> > Turbo
> > > >+
> > > > > > > Honey B 1992 Sunburst Yellow
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > LowCountry Miata miata.net/lowcountry
> > > > > > > Masters Miata
> > > > > > > RAGS 074
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "Mikael Kallerman" <(email redacted)>
> > > > > > > To: <(email redacted)>
> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 3:42 AM
> > > > > > > Subject: ...this darn AFPR business
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hey all,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'm helping out a friend get his JRSC working properly, and
> > having
> > > >some
> > > > > > > fuel problems, it runs lean under boost. Had the injectors
(stock
> > > >1.6) sent
> > > > > > > away for cleaning. They came back damaged (grrr). Lent him my
old
> > > >1.6
> > > > > > > injectors last night, and they work properly. So now at least
that
> > > >problem
> > > > > > > is solved. However, it still runs lean.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Symptoms are o2 sensor voltage of about 0.7-0.75v at WOT and
> > spark
> > > >plug
> > > > > > > elbow are *clean*, i.e. not white, not sandy, not matte, just
> > clean
> > > >and a
> > > > > > > little shiny with a hint of bluish almost, as if they were new
out
> > > >of the
> > > > > > > box. Around the base of the threads it's black as it should
be,
> > and
> > > >up
> > > > > > > inside the isolator is also black. There's no difference
switching
> > > >to other
> > > > > > > hotter or colder plugs. Fuel pressure is around 80psi dropping
to
> > > >75psi by
> > > > > > > redline. So there's pressure at least. Other weird symptoms
are a
> > > > > > > fluctuating fuel pressure. I've leant him my old Greddy Vortec
fpr
> > > > > > > (functionally similar to Begi AFPR) and pressure fluctates
still
> > > >maybe +-5
> > > > > > > psi or so, JR fpr was fluctuating +-30psi...It never did that
> > while
> > > >on my
> > > > > > > car. FPR signal comes from the little nipple on the rear of
the
> > > >intake
> > > > > > > manifold (same place as my map sensor is hooked to on my car).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'm really stumped.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Anyone have any clues as to what could be causing it to run
> > lean?
> > > >There's
> > > > > > > enough fuel, there's spark, I don't get it. There's no audible
> > > >pinging and
> > > > > > > base timing iirc is around 8. All little band-aid black boxes
and
> > > >"crap" is
> > > > > > > removed to simplify things.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > > 91 Link'd Greddy in Sweden
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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