Miatapower List Archive

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Mel Hoagland" <(email redacted)>

Small wheels and tires are fine for autocross, but are NOT a good idea for =
the track - Yes, larger wheels are heavier, but the tires are lighter (alri=
ght - marginally) and most important of all you cannot fit adequate brakes =
inside small wheels. At speed, the Miata's stock brakes are not up to the t=
ask if you're interested in keeping up with (and passing) Ferraris, NSX's a=
nd the occasional race-prepped 911. Unsprung weight, while clearly an impor=
tant issue, is far less of an issue than a lot of people think, especially =
at the higher speeds of a track event. There the most important component i=
s driver smoooothness. I just got back from a great day at Lime Rock, where=
there were 14 NSX's, 2 race-prepped 911's, 2 Ferrari 355 Challenges, 3 Fer=
rari 355's, a race-prepped 3rd gen RX-7 and several other exotics.

In my best session I kept a Ferrari 360 Modena at bay for an entire 25-minu=
te run. He couldn't keep up with me in the corners, but managed to stay pre=
tty even in the straights. I talked to him later - his name is Andy Kaufman=
- and he said he thought he could have taken me in the straights, but with=
the way I was handling the corners, what would be the point? He said he pr=
eferred to hold back and learn from following me and watching my driving. I=
consider this high praise indeed, and it's a technique I use too. If someo=
ne's faster than you through the corners, then this is someone you can lear=
n a lot from. I've used this very technique with Les Seal at Lime Rock.

The other huge difference are my new tires - Toyo RA-1s. From where I was s=
itting they perform far above the Hoosiers I ran last year and they look to=
give me significantly higher mileage. I'm running them on my street wheels=
(the 17" ones), so I've got the low profile size - 205-40/17. The extra we=
ight of the wheels doesn't seem to be a problem. There wasn't a single corn=
er on Saturday I couldn't dial in more steering in the middle of and on the=
downhill I was finally able to run at full power, including fully accelera=
ting long before the apex - no braking whatsoever, not even the nerve-settl=
ing brake tap I have needed on nearly every previous lap at LRP. I was able=
to outdistance anybody I wanted to through every corner - this includes th=
e 355 Challenge in my run group, the above-mentioned 360, a race-equipped N=
SX and a race-equipped 911. Those cars were just barely able to bonzai me o=
n the front straight, but it wasn't easy for them. I'd give them a point-by=
and then glue myself to their bumpers for the next lap. What a day. Wish y=
ou were there.

Unsprung weight is on the list of factors to consider when designing and bu=
ilding a race car, but with all other things in this universe, compromises =
are necessary and not every factor of race car prep is at the top of the li=
st. The most important factor of all is driver skill. If you really want to=
drive with better and better skill, get yourself to high speed driving sch=
ools, even if you have to drive your dad's old Buick Skyliner. You'll learn=
much faster on a slow car than on a fast one, so spend your money on impro=
ving yourself first, then go for the $300 SSR's. Before I even conceived of=
getting Wheezy out on a racetrack I had built the suspension and engine. T=
rying to learn with a car this fast slowed down my progress. It took me at =
least a year to get comfortable with really letting her go and only now, af=
ter 3 years of doing this stuff, am I really making serious progress.

Mel

__________o~`o
Mel Hoagland
Hemisphere Racing Team
Wheezy 96 black FMII/III vrrooommmm

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Regie L Bryant" <(email redacted)>


Mel said: "If you really want to drive with better and better skill, get
yourself to high speed driving schools, even if you have to drive your
dad's old Buick Skyliner. You'll learn much faster on a slow car than on a
fast one, so spend your money on improving yourself first, then go for the
$300 SSR's. "


BINGO. Ditto. Right on. True. Well said!

If you go to the track, leave your Miata stock until *YOU* are capable of
keeping up with (at least for a lap or two) other stock Miatas driven by
instructors. It has been my literal observation that you will save lots of
money and time to obtain the same goals. Until the drivers reach the
higher levels of skill, the car makes *very little* contribution to lap
times.

Regie

(Cars I've passed on the track with a stock 1.6 Miata: M Coupes, various
and sundry 911's (including stuff like new Carrera 4wd's), FD Rx-7's,
three-rotor 2nd Gen RX-7, M3's, M5's, Corvettes, Mustangs, a Testarossa,
Camaros, Integra R-types, various race-prepped stuff like 2002's, 1st gen
RX-7's, Alfa's, blah blah blah. Also have been passed by plenty of stuff
too (stock four-door VW jetta sedan with skinny tires, that had to jettison
baby seats before owner went to the track, was particularly embarressing,
but an indicator I needed to keep learning), just pointing out it is the
*driver*, not the car, until you get up to the higher experience/skill
levels.)



"Mel
Hoagland" To: <(email redacted)>
<mhoagland@rc cc:
n.com> bcc:
Subject: The argument for BIG brakes - LRP
07/05/2002
09:49 AM






Small wheels and tires are fine for autocross, but are NOT a good idea for
the track - Yes, larger wheels are heavier, but the tires are lighter
(alright - marginally) and most important of all you cannot fit adequate
brakes inside small wheels. At speed, the Miata's stock brakes are not up
to the task if you're interested in keeping up with (and passing) Ferraris,
NSX's and the occasional race-prepped 911. Unsprung weight, while clearly
an important issue, is far less of an issue than a lot of people think,
especially at the higher speeds of a track event. There the most important
component is driver smoooothness. I just got back from a great day at Lime
Rock, where there were 14 NSX's, 2 race-prepped 911's, 2 Ferrari 355
Challenges, 3 Ferrari 355's, a race-prepped 3rd gen RX-7 and several other
exotics.

In my best session I kept a Ferrari 360 Modena at bay for an entire
25-minute run. He couldn't keep up with me in the corners, but managed to
stay pretty even in the straights. I talked to him later - his name is Andy
Kaufman - and he said he thought he could have taken me in the straights,
but with the way I was handling the corners, what would be the point? He
said he preferred to hold back and learn from following me and watching my
driving. I consider this high praise indeed, and it's a technique I use
too. If someone's faster than you through the corners, then this is someone
you can learn a lot from. I've used this very technique with Les Seal at
Lime Rock.

The other huge difference are my new tires - Toyo RA-1s. From where I was
sitting they perform far above the Hoosiers I ran last year and they look
to give me significantly higher mileage. I'm running them on my street
wheels (the 17" ones), so I've got the low profile size - 205-40/17. The
extra weight of the wheels doesn't seem to be a problem. There wasn't a
single corner on Saturday I couldn't dial in more steering in the middle of
and on the downhill I was finally able to run at full power, including
fully accelerating long before the apex - no braking whatsoever, not even
the nerve-settling brake tap I have needed on nearly every previous lap at
LRP. I was able to outdistance anybody I wanted to through every corner -
this includes the 355 Challenge in my run group, the above-mentioned 360, a
race-equipped NSX and a race-equipped 911. Those cars were just barely able
to bonzai me on the front straight, but it wasn't easy for them. I'd give
them a point-by and then glue myself to their bumpers for the next lap.
What a day. Wish you were there.

Unsprung weight is on the list of factors to consider when designing and
building a race car, but with all other things in this universe,
compromises are necessary and not every factor of race car prep is at the
top of the list. The most important factor of all is driver skill. If you
really want to drive with better and better skill, get yourself to high
speed driving schools, even if you have to drive your dad's old Buick
Skyliner. You'll learn much faster on a slow car than on a fast one, so
spend your money on improving yourself first, then go for the $300 SSR's.
Before I even conceived of getting Wheezy out on a racetrack I had built
the suspension and engine. Trying to learn with a car this fast slowed down
my progress. It took me at least a year to get comfortable with really
letting her go and only now, after 3 years of doing this stuff, am I really
making serious progress.

Mel

__________o~`o
Mel Hoagland
Hemisphere Racing Team
Wheezy 96 black FMII/III vrrooommmm