Miatapower List Archive

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Colin Fiedler" <(email redacted)>

Ok, my car is a 90 and it has a small oil leak back by the firewall, I can't
see where it is comign out though. I am thinking it is either the CAS seal
or the valve cover gasket, I did have a slight leak with the valve cover a
while ago so I put a new gasket in, but I don't know if I put enough of the
sealant on the rear, maybe that is where it is leaking? Not sure, how can I
tell? Also, I don't know if it is because of the leak, but I was racing
tonight, the car has a Greddy kit on it running like 5ish psi, so not much,
I have the 1.6 liter ACT clutch, so it should EASILY hold this power, but I
slipped the clutch from about 5500 rpm on a launch tonight and once I
released the clutch all the way the tach was redlined and something was
slipping, and it must of been the clutch, because it smelled real bad
afterwards, now this clutch is new, I don't think it should be slipping like
this, is there something wrong? Could oil be getting into the bell housing
onto the clutch? Right after I noticed something slipping I let off then
got back on it and it didn't slip again, but it just smelled for a good 30
minutes at least afterwards. Please let me know, this car would piss me off
a lot less without the oil leak, but then again this clutch slipping I am
not liking either....ideas?
Thanks,
Colin
90 Turbo

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Larry Alster <(email redacted)>

The leak could be either but if you replaced a Cam Cover Gasket already
without replacing a CAS Oring, my money is on the Oring. You would need a
hellva CAS leak for it to get on the clutch. If you do have oil on the
clutch my bet is a rear main seal is leaking.

Try this. Drive on the highway at about 40 in 5th gear and slam the
throttle open. Slipping clutches will slip easily in 56th gear under this
type of load. If it is okay I would suspect your 5k launch was a little
severe for the clutch. I don't know why you would launch a turbo car at 5k
since I can spin the tires on my NA car pretty bad if I launch like that.

You said the clutch is new. Did you give it 500 miles of normal driving
before you tried a banzi launch??

Larry

White Knight 1991 Crystal White #99 CSP
Silver Bullet 1992 Silverstone #17 EM BEGI System IV Turbo +
Honey B 1992 Sunburst Yellow

LowCountry Miata miata.net/lowcountry
Masters Miata
RAGS 074

----- Original Message -----
From: "Colin Fiedler" <(email redacted)>
To: "Miata Club Newslist" <(email redacted)>
Cc: <(email redacted)>
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 4:26 AM
Subject: [Miata] Small oil leak and clutch slip questions (long, sorry)


> charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Ok, my car is a 90 and it has a small oil leak back by the firewall, I
can't
> see where it is comign out though. I am thinking it is either the CAS
seal
> or the valve cover gasket, I did have a slight leak with the valve cover a
> while ago so I put a new gasket in, but I don't know if I put enough of
the
> sealant on the rear, maybe that is where it is leaking? Not sure, how can
I
> tell? Also, I don't know if it is because of the leak, but I was racing
> tonight, the car has a Greddy kit on it running like 5ish psi, so not
much,
> I have the 1.6 liter ACT clutch, so it should EASILY hold this power, but
I
> slipped the clutch from about 5500 rpm on a launch tonight and once I
> released the clutch all the way the tach was redlined and something was
> slipping, and it must of been the clutch, because it smelled real bad
> afterwards, now this clutch is new, I don't think it should be slipping
like
> this, is there something wrong? Could oil be getting into the bell
housing
> onto the clutch? Right after I noticed something slipping I let off then
> got back on it and it didn't slip again, but it just smelled for a good 30
> minutes at least afterwards. Please let me know, this car would piss me
off
> a lot less without the oil leak, but then again this clutch slipping I am
> not liking either....ideas?
> Thanks,
> Colin
> 90 Turbo
>
> _______________________________________________
> Miata mailing list
> (email redacted)
> realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Colin Fiedler" <(email redacted)>

Yeah, I waited the 500 miles.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Alster" <(email redacted)>
To: "Colin Fiedler" <(email redacted)>; "Miata Club Newslist"
<(email redacted)>
Cc: <(email redacted)>
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 5:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Miata] Small oil leak and clutch slip questions (long, sorry)


> The leak could be either but if you replaced a Cam Cover Gasket already
> without replacing a CAS Oring, my money is on the Oring. You would need a
> hellva CAS leak for it to get on the clutch. If you do have oil on the
> clutch my bet is a rear main seal is leaking.
>
> Try this. Drive on the highway at about 40 in 5th gear and slam the
> throttle open. Slipping clutches will slip easily in 56th gear under this
> type of load. If it is okay I would suspect your 5k launch was a little
> severe for the clutch. I don't know why you would launch a turbo car at
5k
> since I can spin the tires on my NA car pretty bad if I launch like that.
>
> You said the clutch is new. Did you give it 500 miles of normal driving
> before you tried a banzi launch??
>
> Larry
>
> White Knight 1991 Crystal White #99 CSP
> Silver Bullet 1992 Silverstone #17 EM BEGI System IV Turbo +
> Honey B 1992 Sunburst Yellow
>
> LowCountry Miata miata.net/lowcountry
> Masters Miata
> RAGS 074
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Colin Fiedler" <(email redacted)>
> To: "Miata Club Newslist" <(email redacted)>
> Cc: <(email redacted)>
> Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 4:26 AM
> Subject: [Miata] Small oil leak and clutch slip questions (long, sorry)
>
>
> > charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > Ok, my car is a 90 and it has a small oil leak back by the firewall, I
> can't
> > see where it is comign out though. I am thinking it is either the CAS
> seal
> > or the valve cover gasket, I did have a slight leak with the valve cover
a
> > while ago so I put a new gasket in, but I don't know if I put enough of
> the
> > sealant on the rear, maybe that is where it is leaking? Not sure, how
can
> I
> > tell? Also, I don't know if it is because of the leak, but I was racing
> > tonight, the car has a Greddy kit on it running like 5ish psi, so not
> much,
> > I have the 1.6 liter ACT clutch, so it should EASILY hold this power,
but
> I
> > slipped the clutch from about 5500 rpm on a launch tonight and once I
> > released the clutch all the way the tach was redlined and something was
> > slipping, and it must of been the clutch, because it smelled real bad
> > afterwards, now this clutch is new, I don't think it should be slipping
> like
> > this, is there something wrong? Could oil be getting into the bell
> housing
> > onto the clutch? Right after I noticed something slipping I let off
then
> > got back on it and it didn't slip again, but it just smelled for a good
30
> > minutes at least afterwards. Please let me know, this car would piss me
> off
> > a lot less without the oil leak, but then again this clutch slipping I
am
> > not liking either....ideas?
> > Thanks,
> > Colin
> > 90 Turbo
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Miata mailing list
> > (email redacted)
> > realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
>
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Tom Graham" <(email redacted)>

Hi Colin,

You may have the clutch adjustment under the dash too tight. This can keep
enough pressure on the clutch that it doesn't engage all the way.

Tom

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Eric Vaillancourt" <(email redacted)>

Colin,

Do as Tom suggests and check your clutch free play, but there are a couple
of points not addressed so far.

Yes, the CAS O-ring could be leaking. If you look up from underneath the
car, (assuming you can safely support the car on stands or ramps), then you
can shine a light right at the back of the CAS area and see if it's leaking.
The easier way is to just grab the CAS with your hand, wrapping your fingers
around the bottom of the CAS. Remove your hand and let your fingers tell
the tale.

The Cam cover gasket on a 1.6 can be pinched while the cam cover is being
put back on since you are trying to tuck it under the coil pack tabs. I've
seen this on new gaskets. The gasket gets pinched out of the groove on
install, then there is a heck of a oil leak at the rear of the cover. Bonus
points for leaving this too long, you get a hose leak at the heater hose
since the hot oil deteriorates the rubber hose fast and will cause it to
swell and bubble. (More prominent on older hoses.)

You said: "...I don't know if I put enough of the
sealant on the rear..."

Ok, Put the RTV down and step away from the car! There are only 6 spots
where you need a small dab of sealant, (silicone RTV, that's Room
Temperature Vulcanizing boys), for sealing the cam cover. These spots are
where the gasket makes a tight 90* deviation rather than a smooth radius
bend. They are at the corners of each cam yoke, on either side of the yoke.
The RTV only goes on the head, NOT IN THE CAM COVER GROOVE.

Contrary to popular belief, the more RTV you use, the more likely you will
have a leak somewhere. The metal must be very clean on a flat smooth
surface for the RTV to bond. More often, a film of oil will allow oil to
weep under the RTV even with significant gasket pressure. I've spent way
too much time scraping RTV out of cam covers after the owner attempted to
stop a leak themselves. Often only a cleaning and a new gasket solved the
problem.

Another 1.6 specific issue is the small tabs on the cam cover that seat on
the head. Some gaskets are slightly thinner and when the cover is seated on
the head, firm on the tabs, there is insufficient pressure on the gasket to
seal effectively. This only happens at the rear of the cover. Find the two
tabs, one just inboard of the CAS cutout and the other at the driver's side
corner of the cover, (rear), and grind/file/dremel them down to about half
the height they are now. It's not necessary to remove them completely, or
necessarily desirable.

AFA your clutch goes, I have to ask, did you replace the rear main seal,
pilot bearing, release bearing and the transmission output shaft seal while
it was apart? The bearings wouldn't be issues for the slippage, per say,
but the seals could allow oil to leak onto the friction disk and ruin even a
new clutch. More likely, you glazed the surface of the friction disk with
your 5k launch and you then wore that glazing off with subsequent driving,
so now it's fine, just not quite as nice or long lasting as it would have
been before you abused it. What I'm saying is the oil leak may not be
related to the slippage, as you suspected.

Good luck, have fun and don't break anything!

Eric
----- Original Message -----
From: "Colin Fiedler" <(email redacted)>
To: "Miata Club Newslist" <(email redacted)>
Cc: <(email redacted)>
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 1:26 AM
Subject: Small oil leak and clutch slip questions (long, sorry)


> Ok, my car is a 90 and it has a small oil leak back by the firewall, I
can't
> see where it is comign out though. I am thinking it is either the CAS
seal
> or the valve cover gasket, I did have a slight leak with the valve cover a
> while ago so I put a new gasket in, but I don't know if I put enough of
the
> sealant on the rear, maybe that is where it is leaking? Not sure, how can
I
> tell? Also, I don't know if it is because of the leak, but I was racing
> tonight, the car has a Greddy kit on it running like 5ish psi, so not
much,
> I have the 1.6 liter ACT clutch, so it should EASILY hold this power, but
I
> slipped the clutch from about 5500 rpm on a launch tonight and once I
> released the clutch all the way the tach was redlined and something was
> slipping, and it must of been the clutch, because it smelled real bad
> afterwards, now this clutch is new, I don't think it should be slipping
like
> this, is there something wrong? Could oil be getting into the bell
housing
> onto the clutch? Right after I noticed something slipping I let off then
> got back on it and it didn't slip again, but it just smelled for a good 30
> minutes at least afterwards. Please let me know, this car would piss me
off
> a lot less without the oil leak, but then again this clutch slipping I am
> not liking either....ideas?
> Thanks,
> Colin
> 90 Turbo
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Colin Fiedler" <(email redacted)>

Thanks for the nice long response, I was thinking that the gasket could be
being pinched because of the coil packs being in the way, I was swearing at
the car very much trying to put it back on. Do you think I need a new
gasket if I take it off and put it back on again?

The bearings are new, the guy that did the clutch said the rear main seal
looked great, I would of replaced it if I had the money and he said it
needed it. I didn't know about the transmission output seal, so I am
assuming that was not replaced. Again, thanks for the response.
Thanks,
Colin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Vaillancourt" <(email redacted)>
To: "Colin Fiedler" <(email redacted)>; "Miata Club Newslist"
<(email redacted)>
Cc: <(email redacted)>
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: Small oil leak and clutch slip questions (long, sorry)


> Colin,
>
> Do as Tom suggests and check your clutch free play, but there are a couple
> of points not addressed so far.
>
> Yes, the CAS O-ring could be leaking. If you look up from underneath the
> car, (assuming you can safely support the car on stands or ramps), then
you
> can shine a light right at the back of the CAS area and see if it's
leaking.
> The easier way is to just grab the CAS with your hand, wrapping your
fingers
> around the bottom of the CAS. Remove your hand and let your fingers tell
> the tale.
>
> The Cam cover gasket on a 1.6 can be pinched while the cam cover is being
> put back on since you are trying to tuck it under the coil pack tabs.
I've
> seen this on new gaskets. The gasket gets pinched out of the groove on
> install, then there is a heck of a oil leak at the rear of the cover.
Bonus
> points for leaving this too long, you get a hose leak at the heater hose
> since the hot oil deteriorates the rubber hose fast and will cause it to
> swell and bubble. (More prominent on older hoses.)
>
> You said: "...I don't know if I put enough of the
> sealant on the rear..."
>
> Ok, Put the RTV down and step away from the car! There are only 6 spots
> where you need a small dab of sealant, (silicone RTV, that's Room
> Temperature Vulcanizing boys), for sealing the cam cover. These spots are
> where the gasket makes a tight 90* deviation rather than a smooth radius
> bend. They are at the corners of each cam yoke, on either side of the
yoke.
> The RTV only goes on the head, NOT IN THE CAM COVER GROOVE.
>
> Contrary to popular belief, the more RTV you use, the more likely you will
> have a leak somewhere. The metal must be very clean on a flat smooth
> surface for the RTV to bond. More often, a film of oil will allow oil to
> weep under the RTV even with significant gasket pressure. I've spent way
> too much time scraping RTV out of cam covers after the owner attempted to
> stop a leak themselves. Often only a cleaning and a new gasket solved the
> problem.
>
> Another 1.6 specific issue is the small tabs on the cam cover that seat on
> the head. Some gaskets are slightly thinner and when the cover is seated
on
> the head, firm on the tabs, there is insufficient pressure on the gasket
to
> seal effectively. This only happens at the rear of the cover. Find the
two
> tabs, one just inboard of the CAS cutout and the other at the driver's
side
> corner of the cover, (rear), and grind/file/dremel them down to about half
> the height they are now. It's not necessary to remove them completely, or
> necessarily desirable.
>
> AFA your clutch goes, I have to ask, did you replace the rear main seal,
> pilot bearing, release bearing and the transmission output shaft seal
while
> it was apart? The bearings wouldn't be issues for the slippage, per say,
> but the seals could allow oil to leak onto the friction disk and ruin even
a
> new clutch. More likely, you glazed the surface of the friction disk with
> your 5k launch and you then wore that glazing off with subsequent driving,
> so now it's fine, just not quite as nice or long lasting as it would have
> been before you abused it. What I'm saying is the oil leak may not be
> related to the slippage, as you suspected.
>
> Good luck, have fun and don't break anything!
>
> Eric
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Colin Fiedler" <(email redacted)>
> To: "Miata Club Newslist" <(email redacted)>
> Cc: <(email redacted)>
> Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 1:26 AM
> Subject: Small oil leak and clutch slip questions (long, sorry)
>
>
> > Ok, my car is a 90 and it has a small oil leak back by the firewall, I
> can't
> > see where it is comign out though. I am thinking it is either the CAS
> seal
> > or the valve cover gasket, I did have a slight leak with the valve cover
a
> > while ago so I put a new gasket in, but I don't know if I put enough of
> the
> > sealant on the rear, maybe that is where it is leaking? Not sure, how
can
> I
> > tell? Also, I don't know if it is because of the leak, but I was racing
> > tonight, the car has a Greddy kit on it running like 5ish psi, so not
> much,
> > I have the 1.6 liter ACT clutch, so it should EASILY hold this power,
but
> I
> > slipped the clutch from about 5500 rpm on a launch tonight and once I
> > released the clutch all the way the tach was redlined and something was
> > slipping, and it must of been the clutch, because it smelled real bad
> > afterwards, now this clutch is new, I don't think it should be slipping
> like
> > this, is there something wrong? Could oil be getting into the bell
> housing
> > onto the clutch? Right after I noticed something slipping I let off
then
> > got back on it and it didn't slip again, but it just smelled for a good
30
> > minutes at least afterwards. Please let me know, this car would piss me
> off
> > a lot less without the oil leak, but then again this clutch slipping I
am
> > not liking either....ideas?
> > Thanks,
> > Colin
> > 90 Turbo
> >
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Eric Vaillancourt" <(email redacted)>

It depends on how damaged it is. Most likely, yes, it would be prudent to
replace the gasket. Temper that with the fact that I always have a couple
of cam cover gaskets in the garage, so it's easy for me, and the $20+ for
the gasket doesn't cross my mind much. (If I made the mistake, the gasket
is free to the customer, if they made it, then they pay for it, so either
way, it needs to be done.)

The trans seal is more dependant on leakage, but the rear main is more
significant for leakage to the clutch. IMHO, I'd never forego the rear main
seal when doing a clutch that has expired through normal wear. You don't
want to separate the motor & trans, (and pay for it), if you don't need to.
With that in mind, there are a lot of leaky Rear main seals with clutches
that don't slip.

Eric
----- Original Message -----
From: "Colin Fiedler" <(email redacted)>
To: "Eric Vaillancourt" <(email redacted)>; "Miata Club Newslist"
<(email redacted)>
Cc: <(email redacted)>
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: Small oil leak and clutch slip questions (long, sorry)


> Thanks for the nice long response, I was thinking that the gasket could be
> being pinched because of the coil packs being in the way, I was swearing
at
> the car very much trying to put it back on. Do you think I need a new
> gasket if I take it off and put it back on again?
>
> The bearings are new, the guy that did the clutch said the rear main seal
> looked great, I would of replaced it if I had the money and he said it
> needed it. I didn't know about the transmission output seal, so I am
> assuming that was not replaced. Again, thanks for the response.
> Thanks,
> Colin