Miatapower List Archive

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Robert Mangas" <(email redacted)>


Hosted by a forum member:

images.geekazoids.net/instbtmpass.jpg
images.geekazoids.net/instmouthdrvr.jpg
images.geekazoids.net/instmouthpass.jpg
images.geekazoids.net/instsidedrvr.jpg
images.geekazoids.net/instsidepass.jpg
images.geekazoids.net/partbottom.jpg
images.geekazoids.net/partdriverside.jpg
images.geekazoids.net/partpassside.jpg

The partXXX files have a 6" rule on the part to give an idea of size.

R


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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Sonny" <(email redacted)>

Thanks for the photos!!! Is this a temporary solution? As in, what are you
going to do when the cardboard gets wet? I guess the cardboard pieces you
have now would be a good starting point for a template you can use to cut
out plastic pieces -- a big ole plastic garbage can comes to mind. (Think
cottage industry or you could just share the template with the PowerList
community.) OTOH, you could duct tape over the cardboard & it'd be
waterproof...

Sonny

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Mangas [mailto:(email redacted)]
> Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 8:38 AM
> To: (email redacted)
> Subject: Shroud pics on the web
>
>
>
> Hosted by a forum member:
>
> images.geekazoids.net/instbtmpass.jpg
> images.geekazoids.net/instmouthdrvr.jpg
> images.geekazoids.net/instmouthpass.jpg
> images.geekazoids.net/instsidedrvr.jpg
> images.geekazoids.net/instsidepass.jpg
> images.geekazoids.net/partbottom.jpg
> images.geekazoids.net/partdriverside.jpg
> images.geekazoids.net/partpassside.jpg
>
> The partXXX files have a 6" rule on the part to give an idea of size.
>
> R

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Jess Gypin" <(email redacted)>

Something built out of sheet aluminum would be the cats ass!

Jess
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sonny" <(email redacted)>
To: "Robert Mangas" <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 13:33 PM
Subject: RE: Shroud pics on the web


> Thanks for the photos!!! Is this a temporary solution? As in, what are
you
> going to do when the cardboard gets wet? I guess the cardboard pieces you
> have now would be a good starting point for a template you can use to cut
> out plastic pieces -- a big ole plastic garbage can comes to mind. (Think
> cottage industry or you could just share the template with the PowerList
> community.) OTOH, you could duct tape over the cardboard & it'd be
> waterproof...
>
> Sonny
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Robert Mangas [mailto:(email redacted)]
> > Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 8:38 AM
> > To: (email redacted)
> > Subject: Shroud pics on the web
> >
> >
> >
> > Hosted by a forum member:
> >
> > images.geekazoids.net/instbtmpass.jpg
> > images.geekazoids.net/instmouthdrvr.jpg
> > images.geekazoids.net/instmouthpass.jpg
> > images.geekazoids.net/instsidedrvr.jpg
> > images.geekazoids.net/instsidepass.jpg
> > images.geekazoids.net/partbottom.jpg
> > images.geekazoids.net/partdriverside.jpg
> > images.geekazoids.net/partpassside.jpg
> >
> > The partXXX files have a 6" rule on the part to give an idea of size.
> >
> > R
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "David N. Woolery" <(email redacted)>

Something like this made of sheet aluminum? I'd definitely buy it. FM?

BTW, "cats ass" was some very funny shiznit, Jess!

-David W.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jess Gypin [mailto:(email redacted)]
> Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 12:41 PM
> To: (email redacted); Robert Mangas; (email redacted)
> Subject: Re: Shroud pics on the web
>
>
> Something built out of sheet aluminum would be the cats ass!
>
> Jess
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sonny" <(email redacted)>
> To: "Robert Mangas" <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
> Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 13:33 PM
> Subject: RE: Shroud pics on the web
>
>
> > Thanks for the photos!!! Is this a temporary solution? As in, what are
> you
> > going to do when the cardboard gets wet? I guess the cardboard
> pieces you
> > have now would be a good starting point for a template you can
> use to cut
> > out plastic pieces -- a big ole plastic garbage can comes to
> mind. (Think
> > cottage industry or you could just share the template with the PowerList
> > community.) OTOH, you could duct tape over the cardboard & it'd be
> > waterproof...
> >
> > Sonny
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Robert Mangas [mailto:(email redacted)]
> > > Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 8:38 AM
> > > To: (email redacted)
> > > Subject: Shroud pics on the web
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hosted by a forum member:
> > >
> > > images.geekazoids.net/instbtmpass.jpg
> > > images.geekazoids.net/instmouthdrvr.jpg
> > > images.geekazoids.net/instmouthpass.jpg
> > > images.geekazoids.net/instsidedrvr.jpg
> > > images.geekazoids.net/instsidepass.jpg
> > > images.geekazoids.net/partbottom.jpg
> > > images.geekazoids.net/partdriverside.jpg
> > > images.geekazoids.net/partpassside.jpg
> > >
> > > The partXXX files have a 6" rule on the part to give an
> idea of size.
> > >
> > > R
> >
>
>
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Jerry Malsam" <(email redacted)>

Very nice! I've been kicking around this idea for quite a while, but you
make it look pretty simple. It seems to me a small downturned lip just aft
of the radiator would make a low pressure zone behind the rad, thus forcing
even more air through. I think 'Vettes use something like this. Of course,
it'd have to be made of aluminum or something more stout than cardboard. If
any vendors are listening, I'd expect a nice, affordable ABS plastic shroud
kit would be a real popular item.

Silly question -- I assume the cardboard is just a mockup or at most a
short-term prototype? It's especially amazing if you got those great cooling
results on the track with friggin cardboard!!

--Jerry
'97 FM2 @ 15psi "Squeaky"
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Mangas
To: (email redacted)
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 8:37 AM
Subject: Shroud pics on the web



Hosted by a forum member:

images.geekazoids.net/instbtmpass.jpg
images.geekazoids.net/instmouthdrvr.jpg
images.geekazoids.net/instmouthpass.jpg
images.geekazoids.net/instsidedrvr.jpg
images.geekazoids.net/instsidepass.jpg
images.geekazoids.net/partbottom.jpg
images.geekazoids.net/partdriverside.jpg
images.geekazoids.net/partpassside.jpg

The partXXX files have a 6" rule on the part to give an idea of size.

R


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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Wendy Lovell" <(email redacted)>

Why not go all the way and fabricate the shrouds out of graphite cloth (ok a
bit of resin) or thin wall Ti sheet?? Remember we are dealing with a Miata
here, we need CLASS!!

Red Sonja

-----Original Message-----
From: Jess Gypin [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 12:41 PM
To: (email redacted); Robert Mangas; (email redacted)
Subject: Re: Shroud pics on the web

Something built out of sheet aluminum would be the cats ass!

Jess
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sonny" <(email redacted)>
To: "Robert Mangas" <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 13:33 PM
Subject: RE: Shroud pics on the web


> Thanks for the photos!!! Is this a temporary solution? As in, what are
you
> going to do when the cardboard gets wet? I guess the cardboard pieces you
> have now would be a good starting point for a template you can use to cut
> out plastic pieces -- a big ole plastic garbage can comes to mind. (Think
> cottage industry or you could just share the template with the PowerList
> community.) OTOH, you could duct tape over the cardboard & it'd be
> waterproof...
>
> Sonny

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Robert Mangas" <(email redacted)>


Thanks, but give the duct tape the credit it deserves :)

Cardboard is a prototype material only, I'm done with it and will be
moving to 1/16" black nylon.

It really was simple. I was dreading it but it took about an hour or so
to make a first one, fit it, mark it up and make this one. I'd looked at it
about 10 times before that coming up with the basic concept; there are still
several aspects I'm not happy with.

I do agree about the flange though- what I envision now is that the rear
edge will be mounted to and seal to the flat rad bottom by a piece of
aluminum angle, and to the vertical leg of that angle I'll mount a plastic
spoiler of some sort. It'll be interesting to see the difference that
makes.

Robert



>From: "Jerry Malsam" <(email redacted)>
>To: "Robert Mangas" <(email redacted)>, "Miata Power"
><(email redacted)>
>Subject: Re: Shroud pics on the web
>Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 17:18:07 -0400
>
>Very nice! I've been kicking around this idea for quite a while, but you
>make it look pretty simple. It seems to me a small downturned lip just aft
>of the radiator would make a low pressure zone behind the rad, thus forcing
>even more air through. I think 'Vettes use something like this. Of course,
>it'd have to be made of aluminum or something more stout than cardboard. If
>any vendors are listening, I'd expect a nice, affordable ABS plastic shroud
>kit would be a real popular item.
>
>Silly question -- I assume the cardboard is just a mockup or at most a
>short-term prototype? It's especially amazing if you got those great
>cooling
>results on the track with friggin cardboard!!
>
>--Jerry
>'97 FM2 @ 15psi "Squeaky"
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Robert Mangas
> To: (email redacted)
> Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 8:37 AM
> Subject: Shroud pics on the web
>
>
>
> Hosted by a forum member:
>
> images.geekazoids.net/instbtmpass.jpg
> images.geekazoids.net/instmouthdrvr.jpg
> images.geekazoids.net/instmouthpass.jpg
> images.geekazoids.net/instsidedrvr.jpg
> images.geekazoids.net/instsidepass.jpg
> images.geekazoids.net/partbottom.jpg
> images.geekazoids.net/partdriverside.jpg
> images.geekazoids.net/partpassside.jpg
>
> The partXXX files have a 6" rule on the part to give an idea of size.
>
> R
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> hotmail.com




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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Robert Mangas" <(email redacted)>


From the place I'll buy the material to make the first one a sheet of
nylon is less than $20. A similarly sized Al sheet costs nearly $50.
Aluminum... I dunno. Why is it better than plastic? Plastic will be
quieter, easier to work with, more tolerant of shape change, totally
corrosion proof, won't crumple.... What more could you want?

Still, if aluminum is what people want I'll try to get some made that
way. I still say plastic is a good solution.

I'll make some drawings, and anyone that wants a copy can have it. I've
access to some production/fabrication facilities and so may make some form
of kt to take the burden off the person who's too busy to deal with pulling
all the stuff together but I want to have one I'm happy with first.

How do you seal the three pieces to each other?

How do you get the pieces to seal to the body/tubing?

Robert

>From: "Wendy Lovell" <(email redacted)>
>Reply-To: <(email redacted)>
>To: "Jess Gypin" <(email redacted)>, <(email redacted)>
>Subject: RE: Shroud pics on the web
>Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 17:00:24 -0700
>
>Why not go all the way and fabricate the shrouds out of graphite cloth (ok
>a
>bit of resin) or thin wall Ti sheet?? Remember we are dealing with a Miata
>here, we need CLASS!!
>
>Red Sonja
>
> -----Original Message-----
>From: Jess Gypin [mailto:(email redacted)]
>Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 12:41 PM
>To: (email redacted); Robert Mangas; (email redacted)
>Subject: Re: Shroud pics on the web
>
>Something built out of sheet aluminum would be the cats ass!
>
>Jess
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Sonny" <(email redacted)>
>To: "Robert Mangas" <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
>Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 13:33 PM
>Subject: RE: Shroud pics on the web
>
>
> > Thanks for the photos!!! Is this a temporary solution? As in, what are
>you
> > going to do when the cardboard gets wet? I guess the cardboard pieces
>you
> > have now would be a good starting point for a template you can use to
>cut
> > out plastic pieces -- a big ole plastic garbage can comes to mind.
>(Think
> > cottage industry or you could just share the template with the PowerList
> > community.) OTOH, you could duct tape over the cardboard & it'd be
> > waterproof...
> >
> > Sonny
>
>




_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)


>How do you seal the three pieces to each other?
>How do you get the pieces to seal to the body/tubing?

I think that simplicity is called for here. I still like holes in adjacent
pieces tied together with wire tires. Easy. Simple. Cheap. True some air will
leak out, so to speak. But, it will still be at least 80% effective. And, the
wire tied seams can easily be covered with a layer of black duct tape to make
them 100% air tight.

Does the plastics supplier carry pre-bent 90* angle nylon? (Like angle iron
or alum. except nylon. Not sure if such a thing is made or not.)

Then you could poprivet the pieces of shroud together. Or maybe drill holes
slightly smaller than small machine screws. Force the screw into the nylon
hole before installing, then slip the nylon angle piece over the exposed
screw threaded end and tighten with nuts or wing nuts. Actually they make
nylon nuts and bolts that would be perfect for this use.

Jim in Tucson


In a message dated 7/13/02 11:20:14 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
(email redacted) writes:

>
> From the place I'll buy the material to make the first one a sheet of
> nylon is less than $20. A similarly sized Al sheet costs nearly $50.
> Aluminum... I dunno. Why is it better than plastic? Plastic will be
> quieter, easier to work with, more tolerant of shape change, totally
> corrosion proof, won't crumple.... What more could you want?
>
> Still, if aluminum is what people want I'll try to get some made that
> way. I still say plastic is a good solution.
>
> I'll make some drawings, and anyone that wants a copy can have it. I've
> access to some production/fabrication facilities and so may make some form
> of kt to take the burden off the person who's too busy to deal with pulling
>
> all the stuff together but I want to have one I'm happy with first.
>
> How do you seal the three pieces to each other?
>
> How do you get the pieces to seal to the body/tubing?
>
> Robert
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Mel Hoagland" <(email redacted)>

Robert,

Another material option is sintra - expanded vinyl foam. Extremely lightwei=
ght, stiff and fireproof. It's what I used for the as-yet-not-completed mou=
th shroud on Wheezy. I have the bottom pieces in place but nothing on the s=
ides or top. I closed off the area from the edge of the mouth to the top su=
rface of the bottom tanks on both the IC and the rad - the tanks are outsid=
e the enclosure making the restricted air path as direct through the coolin=
g galleries and turbulence-free as possible. Since I can't seem to get Whee=
zy even close to overheating even on the track, I moved on to other project=
s. If anybody's interested, I'll take some pictures.

The other projects include installing a Pierburg, a new fuel filter and a V=
ishnu fuel rail. SOTP says 30 additional hp (weee!), and the rest of my run=
group at LRP would agree, as would two brave (and foolish) super-bike ride=
rs on routes 2 & 495 recently. There is a strong possibility the fuel filte=
r accounts for a major part of this power increase - I recommend doing at l=
east this much more often than you might have been planning to. Fuel starva=
tion at the higher rpms, especially with F/I, could be deadly for your engi=
ne. If you've been doing a lot of track miles, your filter will be getting =
dirtier quicker - typically I get around 7 mpg in the track, meaning my fil=
ter is passing between 3 and 4 times as much fuel per mile driven.

To avoid taking a gas bath when you change the filter, I recommend getting =
a set of fuel line clamps - they work great and you'll only need to deal wi=
th the fuel inside the filter.

Robert - nice start for your project.

Mel

__________o~`o
Mel Hoagland
Hemisphere Racing Team
Wheezy 96 black FMII/III vrrooommmm


----- Original Message -----=20
From: Robert Mangas=20
To: (email redacted) ; (email redacted)=20
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2002 1:46 AM
Subject: Re: Shroud pics on the web



Thanks, but give the duct tape the credit it deserves :)

Cardboard is a prototype material only, I'm done with it and will be=
=20
moving to 1/16" black nylon.

It really was simple. I was dreading it but it took about an hour or =
so=20
to make a first one, fit it, mark it up and make this one. I'd looked at=
it=20
about 10 times before that coming up with the basic concept; there are st=
ill=20
several aspects I'm not happy with.

I do agree about the flange though- what I envision now is that the re=
ar=20
edge will be mounted to and seal to the flat rad bottom by a piece of=20
aluminum angle, and to the vertical leg of that angle I'll mount a plasti=
c=20
spoiler of some sort. It'll be interesting to see the difference that=20
makes.

Robert

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Mel Hoagland" <(email redacted)>

One more thing - sintra is used by sign makers. I got enough 1/8" black for=
all the shroud pieces for about $10. Total weight couldn't be more than 1/=
2 lb.

Mel
__________o~`o
Mel Hoagland
Hemisphere Racing Team
Wheezy 96 black FMII/III vrrooommmm

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Robert Mangas" <(email redacted)>


I looked into Sintra, all because of your post last year on the topic.
The problems I saw with it were that it's got poor impact resistance that
gets worse in cold temps and that it's _too_ ridid. To get the passenger
side side shield in requires some complex flexing (as designed currently)
and the required temporary shape change would probably crack the foam. It'd
kink aluminum, which makes me like that less as well. Cardboard was ideal
from that standpoint :).

It may well be possible to make the shield in a way that doesn't require
this bending; I'll have a look.

R


>From: "Mel Hoagland" <(email redacted)>
>To: <(email redacted)>
>Subject: Re: Shroud pics on the web
>Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 03:28:29 -0400
>
>Robert,
>
>Another material option is sintra - expanded vinyl foam. Extremely
>lightweight, stiff and fireproof. It's what I used for the
>as-yet-not-completed mouth shroud on Wheezy. I have the bottom pieces in
>place but nothing on the sides or top. I closed off the area from the edge
>of the mouth to the top surface of the bottom tanks on both the IC and the
>rad - the tanks are outside the enclosure making the restricted air path as
>direct through the cooling galleries and turbulence-free as possible. Since
>I can't seem to get Wheezy even close to overheating even on the track, I
>moved on to other projects. If anybody's interested, I'll take some
>pictures.
>
>The other projects include installing a Pierburg, a new fuel filter and a
>Vishnu fuel rail. SOTP says 30 additional hp (weee!), and the rest of my
>run group at LRP would agree, as would two brave (and foolish) super-bike
>riders on routes 2 & 495 recently. There is a strong possibility the fuel
>filter accounts for a major part of this power increase - I recommend doing
>at least this much more often than you might have been planning to. Fuel
>starvation at the higher rpms, especially with F/I, could be deadly for
>your engine. If you've been doing a lot of track miles, your filter will be
>getting dirtier quicker - typically I get around 7 mpg in the track,
>meaning my filter is passing between 3 and 4 times as much fuel per mile
>driven.
>
>To avoid taking a gas bath when you change the filter, I recommend getting
>a set of fuel line clamps - they work great and you'll only need to deal
>with the fuel inside the filter.
>
>Robert - nice start for your project.
>
>Mel
>
>__________o~`o
>Mel Hoagland
>Hemisphere Racing Team
>Wheezy 96 black FMII/III vrrooommmm
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Robert Mangas
> To: (email redacted) ; (email redacted)
> Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2002 1:46 AM
> Subject: Re: Shroud pics on the web
>
>
>
> Thanks, but give the duct tape the credit it deserves :)
>
> Cardboard is a prototype material only, I'm done with it and will be
> moving to 1/16" black nylon.
>
> It really was simple. I was dreading it but it took about an hour or
>so
> to make a first one, fit it, mark it up and make this one. I'd looked
>at it
> about 10 times before that coming up with the basic concept; there are
>still
> several aspects I'm not happy with.
>
> I do agree about the flange though- what I envision now is that the
>rear
> edge will be mounted to and seal to the flat rad bottom by a piece of
> aluminum angle, and to the vertical leg of that angle I'll mount a
>plastic
> spoiler of some sort. It'll be interesting to see the difference that
> makes.
>
> Robert
>




_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Ian McCloghrie <(email redacted)>

On Jul 14, 2002 "Robert Mangas" wrote:
> From the place I'll buy the material to make the first one a sheet of
> nylon is less than $20. A similarly sized Al sheet costs nearly $50.
> Aluminum... I dunno. Why is it better than plastic? Plastic will be
> quieter, easier to work with, more tolerant of shape change, totally
> corrosion proof, won't crumple.... What more could you want?

Plastics tend to have low temperature ratings, depending on what type
you use. The radiator could be as hot as the coolant inside it, and
intercoolers can get toasty after periods of extended boost as well.

I'm not saying plastic won't work, just something to be aware of.

--Ian

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Mel Hoagland" <(email redacted)>

What you're describing doesn't sound like sintra (poor impact resistance, w=
orse in cold temps, high rigidity?). From the uses I've made and what I've =
seen signmakers and other fabricators do with the stuff, it's hard to pictu=
re a better material for this particular application.

Sintra heat forms very readily and once formed, there is no internal tensio=
n to be concerned with. I've got a couple of heat-formed areas on the ducti=
ng I finished - been on there for a few years now and no problems whatsoeve=
r. This stuff takes all sorts of abuse and has similar impact-resistance to=
other thermoplastics, like ABS.

ABS is another option, extremely durable but heavier than sintra. The two h=
ave about the same rigidity.

Mel

__________o~`o
Mel Hoagland
Hemisphere Racing Team
Wheezy 96 black FMII/III vrrooommmm


----- Original Message -----=20
From: Robert Mangas=20
To: (email redacted) ; (email redacted)=20
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2002 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: Shroud pics on the web



I looked into Sintra, all because of your post last year on the topic.=
=20=20
The problems I saw with it were that it's got poor impact resistance that=
=20
gets worse in cold temps and that it's _too_ ridid. To get the passenger=
=20
side side shield in requires some complex flexing (as designed currently)=
=20
and the required temporary shape change would probably crack the foam. I=
t'd=20
kink aluminum, which makes me like that less as well. Cardboard was idea=
l=20
from that standpoint :).

It may well be possible to make the shield in a way that doesn't requir=
e=20
this bending; I'll have a look.

R


>From: "Mel Hoagland" <(email redacted)>
>To: <(email redacted)>
>Subject: Re: Shroud pics on the web
>Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 03:28:29 -0400
>
>Robert,
>
>Another material option is sintra - expanded vinyl foam. Extremely=20
>lightweight, stiff and fireproof. It's what I used for the=20
>as-yet-not-completed mouth shroud on Wheezy. I have the bottom pieces in=
=20
>place but nothing on the sides or top. I closed off the area from the ed=
ge=20
>of the mouth to the top surface of the bottom tanks on both the IC and t=
he=20
>rad - the tanks are outside the enclosure making the restricted air path=
as=20
>direct through the cooling galleries and turbulence-free as possible. Si=
nce=20
>I can't seem to get Wheezy even close to overheating even on the track, =
I=20
>moved on to other projects. If anybody's interested, I'll take some=20
>pictures.
>
>The other projects include installing a Pierburg, a new fuel filter and =
a=20
>Vishnu fuel rail. SOTP says 30 additional hp (weee!), and the rest of my=
=20
>run group at LRP would agree, as would two brave (and foolish) super-bik=
e=20
>riders on routes 2 & 495 recently. There is a strong possibility the fue=
l=20
>filter accounts for a major part of this power increase - I recommend do=
ing=20
>at least this much more often than you might have been planning to. Fuel=
=20
>starvation at the higher rpms, especially with F/I, could be deadly for=
=20
>your engine. If you've been doing a lot of track miles, your filter will=
be=20
>getting dirtier quicker - typically I get around 7 mpg in the track,=20
>meaning my filter is passing between 3 and 4 times as much fuel per mile=
=20
>driven.
>
>To avoid taking a gas bath when you change the filter, I recommend getti=
ng=20
>a set of fuel line clamps - they work great and you'll only need to deal=
=20
>with the fuel inside the filter.
>
>Robert - nice start for your project.
>
>Mel
>
>__________o~`o
>Mel Hoagland
>Hemisphere Racing Team
>Wheezy 96 black FMII/III vrrooommmm
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Robert Mangas
> To: (email redacted) ; (email redacted)
> Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2002 1:46 AM
> Subject: Re: Shroud pics on the web
>
>
>
> Thanks, but give the duct tape the credit it deserves :)
>
> Cardboard is a prototype material only, I'm done with it and will =
be
> moving to 1/16" black nylon.
>
> It really was simple. I was dreading it but it took about an hour=
or=20
>so
> to make a first one, fit it, mark it up and make this one. I'd looke=
d=20
>at it
> about 10 times before that coming up with the basic concept; there ar=
e=20
>still
> several aspects I'm not happy with.
>
> I do agree about the flange though- what I envision now is that th=
e=20
>rear
> edge will be mounted to and seal to the flat rad bottom by a piece of
> aluminum angle, and to the vertical leg of that angle I'll mount a=20
>plastic
> spoiler of some sort. It'll be interesting to see the difference that
> makes.
>
> Robert
>




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MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:=20
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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Mel Hoagland" <(email redacted)>

Again, a vote for sintra. I held a propane torch to the stuff for 10 minute=
s. For the first 5 minutes, no noticeable effect, after that the stuff star=
ted to scorch and eventually shriveled, leaving a carbon husk. I've run thi=
s setup for 2 1/2 years of road & track and other than dirt & dust, it look=
s just the same as the day I installed it. It's in direct contact with both=
the radiator and the IC.

Ok - I'll take some pictures.

Mel
__________o~`o
Mel Hoagland
Hemisphere Racing Team
Wheezy 96 black FMII/III vrrooommmm


----- Original Message -----=20
From: Ian McCloghrie=20
To: Robert Mangas=20
Cc: (email redacted) ; (email redacted) ; (email redacted)=20
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2002 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: Shroud pics on the web=20


On Jul 14, 2002 "Robert Mangas" wrote:
> From the place I'll buy the material to make the first one a sheet o=
f=20
> nylon is less than $20. A similarly sized Al sheet costs nearly $50.=
=20=20
> Aluminum... I dunno. Why is it better than plastic? Plastic will be=
=20
> quieter, easier to work with, more tolerant of shape change, totally=20
> corrosion proof, won't crumple.... What more could you want?

Plastics tend to have low temperature ratings, depending on what type
you use. The radiator could be as hot as the coolant inside it, and
intercoolers can get toasty after periods of extended boost as well.

I'm not saying plastic won't work, just something to be aware of.

--Ian

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Robert Mangas" <(email redacted)>


The stated operating range of the nylon I'm looking at is -40F-200F.
Seems good enough in that the bottom part of the rad is the cool part and
that the plastic could be spaced off the actual metal by some type of foam
gasketing. The melting point is stated as 490F, so even if it does go over
200 intermittantly should be no problem...

R

>From: Ian McCloghrie <(email redacted)>
>Reply-To: (email redacted)
>To: "Robert Mangas" <(email redacted)>
>CC: (email redacted), (email redacted), (email redacted)
>Subject: Re: Shroud pics on the web Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 11:03:54 -0700
>
>On Jul 14, 2002 "Robert Mangas" wrote:
> > From the place I'll buy the material to make the first one a sheet of
> > nylon is less than $20. A similarly sized Al sheet costs nearly $50.
> > Aluminum... I dunno. Why is it better than plastic? Plastic will be
> > quieter, easier to work with, more tolerant of shape change, totally
> > corrosion proof, won't crumple.... What more could you want?
>
>Plastics tend to have low temperature ratings, depending on what type
>you use. The radiator could be as hot as the coolant inside it, and
>intercoolers can get toasty after periods of extended boost as well.
>
>I'm not saying plastic won't work, just something to be aware of.
>
>--Ian




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