Miatapower List Archive

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Robert McElwee" <(email redacted)>

Some of you may know that I am starting a project to build a high MPG
car. I really wanted to start with something that got 50 MPG and
improve on that but I just can't find a good/cheap car to start with
so I think I am going to use one of our Miatas for the project. While
surfing a Geo Metro forum I saw someone who was taking their three
cylinder and turning it into a 2 cylinder. I'm wondering what the
effect would be if I killed fuel/spark to two of the cylinders on a
Miata while cruising around 50-55 MPH. Anyone want to venture a guess?
I know my HP would probably drop by more than 50% (not a big deal to
me during a high MPG test) but would the car still run or is there
something that would mess up (engine imbalance?). I have read that an
engine runs most efficiently when the throttle is wide open so this
should help to open it up quite a bit. I have a Link ECU so I have a
lot of control over the spark/fuel that I would not have on a "normal"
Miata. It should be easy to kill the injectors (say cyl 1 & 4 - aren't
they on the same coil?) and one of the coils with a switch. Get the
car to 50 MPH, flip a switch and push further down on the accelerator
to maintain the same speed (or decrease speed a bit).

I'm open to any suggestions (other than people saying it is a stupid
project). I haven't spent much time thinking about this so don't tease
me if I overlooked something very obvious. Thanks!


--
Robert McElwee and Red Beast
1991 T25 Turbo @ 15 PSI
Link ECU, FM IC, 9:1 pistons
Over 400 lbs of "added lightness"
www.lightweightmiata.com

Lightweight Miata Forum:
www.lightweightmiata.com/forum

The Miata Trailer Project:
www.lightweightmiata.com/trailer

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: derf <(email redacted)>

If you could somehow stop compression in the two cylinders in
question, wouldn't that help with resistance?
If you could just shut off the injectors and release the compression,
then you might have something.
Miatas regularly run wasted spark so you could just let the spark go, eh?

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Aleksandr Milewski <(email redacted)>

Robert McElwee wrote:

> I'm wondering what the
> effect would be if I killed fuel/spark to two of the cylinders on a
> Miata while cruising around 50-55 MPH. Anyone want to venture a guess?

Big time pumping losses. You're still going to be compressing whatever
gases end up in the deactivated cylinders.

The way the new GM V8's that do cylinder deactivation work is that they
close *all* the valves to the offline cylinders. So you're spending
energy compressing the gas, but it's basically an air-spring and you get
it back on what would be the power stroke.

It's been a couple of years since I heard the tech talks on this, but
IIRC, they draw a charge, fire it, but never open the exhaust valve. I
think they continue to spark. There was something about reactivating the
cylinder every minute or two, but I don't remember the details.

Mechanically, this is done with magic lifters that have a pin open to
the side of the lifter. If that pin is in it's natural position, the
lifter works normally. If you push it in, the cam side of the lifter can
move without moving the pushrod. An extra oil galley to the sides of the
lifters provides pressure to push the pin into the lifter and deactivate
the valve.

-Z

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Robert McElwee" <(email redacted)>

I think that stopping the compression would be pretty hard to do.
Maybe some VVT solution could be built with a newer Miata but I am
looking at buying a $5 switch and running some wires, not completely
re-engineering the ICE. Yes, the compression is definitely going to
put a hurting on the two "running" cylinders. It should be fairly easy
to test unless I am missing something (which is why I am asking before
cutting any wires <G>).

Yeah, probably nothing wrong with letting the spark go. It's not like
I would be running the car like that for any length of time. My "test
track" will be the 16.3 mile drive to work. It is made up of four 5
minute sections (separated by stop signs). During these sections it
may be possible to kill the injectors for the 2-3 minutes of straight
level road and do some coasting.


On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 9:55 PM, derf <(email redacted)> wrote:
> If you could somehow stop compression in the two cylinders in
> question, wouldn't that help with resistance?
> If you could just shut off the injectors and release the compression,
> then you might have something.
> Miatas regularly run wasted spark so you could just let the spark go, eh?
>



--
Robert McElwee and Red Beast
1991 T25 Turbo @ 15 PSI
Link ECU, FM IC, 9:1 pistons
Over 400 lbs of "added lightness"
www.lightweightmiata.com

Lightweight Miata Forum:
www.lightweightmiata.com/forum

The Miata Trailer Project:
www.lightweightmiata.com/trailer

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Chris" <(email redacted)>

Forget the spark, just put two (or four) toggle switch to shut off
injectors.

But also you could read up on how the cars which do that work.

The old 8-6-4 GM motors of the 80's did not work well, so read why and save
yourself the same mistakes.

Also, I read that some cars pull the injectors offline on a rotating basis.
I *think* Chrysler does this now.




-----Original Message-----
From: (email redacted)
[mailto:(email redacted)] On Behalf Of Robert McElwee
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 8:09 PM
To: miatapower List
Subject: NPC: High MPG Miata

Some of you may know that I am starting a project to build a high MPG
car. I really wanted to start with something that got 50 MPG and
improve on that but I just can't find a good/cheap car to start with
so I think I am going to use one of our Miatas for the project. While
surfing a Geo Metro forum I saw someone who was taking their three
cylinder and turning it into a 2 cylinder. I'm wondering what the
effect would be if I killed fuel/spark to two of the cylinders on a
Miata while cruising around 50-55 MPH. Anyone want to venture a guess?
I know my HP would probably drop by more than 50% (not a big deal to
me during a high MPG test) but would the car still run or is there
something that would mess up (engine imbalance?). I have read that an
engine runs most efficiently when the throttle is wide open so this
should help to open it up quite a bit. I have a Link ECU so I have a
lot of control over the spark/fuel that I would not have on a "normal"
Miata. It should be easy to kill the injectors (say cyl 1 & 4 - aren't
they on the same coil?) and one of the coils with a switch. Get the
car to 50 MPH, flip a switch and push further down on the accelerator
to maintain the same speed (or decrease speed a bit).

I'm open to any suggestions (other than people saying it is a stupid
project). I haven't spent much time thinking about this so don't tease
me if I overlooked something very obvious. Thanks!


--
Robert McElwee and Red Beast
1991 T25 Turbo @ 15 PSI
Link ECU, FM IC, 9:1 pistons
Over 400 lbs of "added lightness"
www.lightweightmiata.com

Lightweight Miata Forum:
www.lightweightmiata.com/forum

The Miata Trailer Project:
www.lightweightmiata.com/trailer
_______________________________________________
Miatapower mailing list
(email redacted)
list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)

Perhaps FM can engineer a new 4 liter 2 cyl engine with turbo, perhaps a V2.
Monster torque down low, 2500 RPM max, uses one cyl in 7th and 8th gears, or
alternately works with a constant velocity trans.
Makes incredible exhaust sounds.

Perhaps this will encourage Bill to start a new division - FM FOUNDRY.
We can send them our old engines and they can melt 'em down.


How about an inexpensive lightweight, electro-magnetic, Delrin block engine?
Self lubricating, feeds off itself, eventually "wears out" (literally), but
snaps into place, so changeouts are a breeze.
This may be a good idea; the problem with today's engines is they use such
heavy material and so many unnecessary moving parts...and the fuel stinks.






**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Robert McElwee" <(email redacted)>

That's why my goal has always been to build a car that runs on bacon
grease. Yummy!!!



On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 8:58 AM, <(email redacted)> wrote:
> This may be a good idea; the problem with today's engines is they use such
> heavy material and so many unnecessary moving parts...and the fuel stinks.
>

--
Robert McElwee and Red Beast
1991 T25 Turbo @ 15 PSI
Link ECU, FM IC, 9:1 pistons
Over 400 lbs of "added lightness"
www.lightweightmiata.com

Lightweight Miata Forum:
www.lightweightmiata.com/forum

The Miata Trailer Project:
www.lightweightmiata.com/trailer

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Chris" <(email redacted)>

Too late.

I was at the hospital picking up a friend, and a "biofuel" company truck was
grabbing the grease. I said to myself "The days of grease as a free waste
product are OVER" lol





-----Original Message-----
From: (email redacted)
[mailto:(email redacted)] On Behalf Of Robert McElwee
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 11:46 AM
To: (email redacted)
Cc: (email redacted)
Subject: Re: NPC: High MPG Miata

That's why my goal has always been to build a car that runs on bacon
grease. Yummy!!!



On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 8:58 AM, <(email redacted)> wrote:
> This may be a good idea; the problem with today's engines is they use such
> heavy material and so many unnecessary moving parts...and the fuel stinks.
>

--
Robert McElwee and Red Beast
1991 T25 Turbo @ 15 PSI
Link ECU, FM IC, 9:1 pistons
Over 400 lbs of "added lightness"
www.lightweightmiata.com

Lightweight Miata Forum:
www.lightweightmiata.com/forum

The Miata Trailer Project:
www.lightweightmiata.com/trailer
_______________________________________________
Miatapower mailing list
(email redacted)
list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Bryan Wyatt <(email redacted)>

For those who are environmentally conscious, at least we're making use of waste products.&nbsp; Recycling is the thing to do, after all.

-Bryan

--- On Sat, 5/31/08, Chris &lt;(email redacted)&gt; wrote:
From: Chris &lt;(email redacted)&gt;
Subject: RE: NPC: High MPG Miata
To: "'Robert McElwee'" &lt;(email redacted)&gt;, (email redacted)
Cc: (email redacted)
Date: Saturday, May 31, 2008, 1:54 PM

Too late.

I was at the hospital picking up a friend, and a "biofuel" company
truck was
grabbing the grease. I said to myself "The days of grease as a free waste
product are OVER" lol





-----Original Message-----
From: (email redacted)
[mailto:(email redacted)] On Behalf Of Robert McElwee
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 11:46 AM
To: (email redacted)
Cc: (email redacted)
Subject: Re: NPC: High MPG Miata

That's why my goal has always been to build a car that runs on bacon
grease. Yummy!!!



On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 8:58 AM, &lt;(email redacted)&gt; wrote:
&gt; This may be a good idea; the problem with today's engines is they use
such
&gt; heavy material and so many unnecessary moving parts...and the fuel stinks.
&gt;

--
Robert McElwee and Red Beast
1991 T25 Turbo @ 15 PSI
Link ECU, FM IC, 9:1 pistons
Over 400 lbs of "added lightness"
www.lightweightmiata.com

Lightweight Miata Forum:
www.lightweightmiata.com/forum

The Miata Trailer Project:
www.lightweightmiata.com/trailer
_______________________________________________
Miatapower mailing list
(email redacted)
list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower



_______________________________________________
Miatapower mailing list
(email redacted)
list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)


In a message dated 5/31/2008 1:03:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
(email redacted) writes:

For those who are environmentally conscious, at least we're making use of
waste products. Recycling is the thing to do, after all.

-Bryan



Better to feed fat to the car than to your body...



**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Robert McElwee" <(email redacted)>

I had considered building a biofuel vehicle but I came to realize that
very soon I would not be able to get "free" fuel due to that very
reason. I would be willing to bet that you could do very well picking
up grease and selling it. Get your contracts in now before the big
boys do.


On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 1:54 PM, Chris <(email redacted)> wrote:
> Too late.
>
> I was at the hospital picking up a friend, and a "biofuel" company truck was
> grabbing the grease. I said to myself "The days of grease as a free waste
> product are OVER" lol
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: (email redacted)
> [mailto:(email redacted)] On Behalf Of Robert McElwee
> Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 11:46 AM
> To: (email redacted)
> Cc: (email redacted)
> Subject: Re: NPC: High MPG Miata
>
> That's why my goal has always been to build a car that runs on bacon
> grease. Yummy!!!
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 8:58 AM, <(email redacted)> wrote:
>> This may be a good idea; the problem with today's engines is they use such
>> heavy material and so many unnecessary moving parts...and the fuel stinks.
>>
>
> --
> Robert McElwee and Red Beast
> 1991 T25 Turbo @ 15 PSI
> Link ECU, FM IC, 9:1 pistons
> Over 400 lbs of "added lightness"
> www.lightweightmiata.com
>
> Lightweight Miata Forum:
> www.lightweightmiata.com/forum
>
> The Miata Trailer Project:
> www.lightweightmiata.com/trailer
> _______________________________________________
> Miatapower mailing list
> (email redacted)
> list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>
>
>
>



--
Robert McElwee and Red Beast
1991 T25 Turbo @ 15 PSI
Link ECU, FM IC, 9:1 pistons
Over 400 lbs of "added lightness"
www.lightweightmiata.com

Lightweight Miata Forum:
www.lightweightmiata.com/forum

The Miata Trailer Project:
www.lightweightmiata.com/trailer

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)

I'm quite intrigued by your idea of DIY multiple displacement. I just don't
think it will gain you much for the effort.

Let me suggest a different angle. Lean burn. I can't find the article, but
someone did a bunch of testing on a Honda Insight with a wide band, and
discovered that the lean burn AFR's were much, MUCH leaner than previously thought.

There is a lot of info about lean burn in general, and the Honda Insight
specifically. Here's one:
_www.gassavers.org/showthread.php?t=2160_
(gassavers.org/showthread.php?t=2160)

I suggest considering:
low resistance tires (or at least blow 'um up tight)
light weight wheels (obviously)
water injection (for knock resistance)
several sizes of water jets, or preferably a variable speed motor
low octane fuel (obviously)
195* thermostat (want as complete a burn as possible)
extra slippery lubricants in engine, tranny, & diff. (Obvious Man at work
again)
free-flow exhaust (maybe)
scavenging header (maybe)
hot range spark plugs
wide band sensor (obviously)
EGT gauge would be nice as well
tune your Link so the cruising zones are considerably enleaned
(experimentation required)

Log your knock sensor and simply enlean ARF's slowly till knock, then add a
bit more water. Repeat.
When additional water will not quell the knock, back up to the previous
settings. I think you could run on all 4
cyls and still get some decent mileage.

Jim in Tucson



In a message dated 5/30/2008 7:20:48 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
(email redacted) writes:

I think that stopping the compression would be pretty hard to do.
Maybe some VVT solution could be built with a newer Miata but I am
looking at buying a $5 switch and running some wires, not completely
re-engineering the ICE. Yes, the compression is definitely going to
put a hurting on the two "running" cylinders. It should be fairly easy
to test unless I am missing something (which is why I am asking before
cutting any wires <G>).

Yeah, probably nothing wrong with letting the spark go. It's not like
I would be running the car like that for any length of time. My "test
track" will be the 16.3 mile drive to work. It is made up of four 5
minute sections (separated by stop signs). During these sections it
may be possible to kill the injectors for the 2-3 minutes of straight
level road and do some coasting.


On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 9:55 PM, derf <(email redacted)> wrote:
> If you could somehow stop compression in the two cylinders in
> question, wouldn't that help with resistance?
> If you could just shut off the injectors and release the compression,
> then you might have something.
> Miatas regularly run wasted spark so you could just let the spark go, eh?
>



--
Robert McElwee and Red Beast
1991 T25 Turbo @ 15 PSI
Link ECU, FM IC, 9:1 pistons
Over 400 lbs of "added lightness"
www.lightweightmiata.com

Lightweight Miata Forum:
www.lightweightmiata.com/forum

The Miata Trailer Project:
www.lightweightmiata.com/trailer
_______________________________________________
Miatapower mailing list
(email redacted)
list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower





**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Chris" <(email redacted)>

I wonder about my Miata.





Put rheostat on o/2 sensor (cuts out at higher throttle/ open loop anyway?),
and adjust to lean the mixture



Also.

Higher tire pressure

Install cruise control













_____

From: (email redacted)
[mailto:(email redacted)] On Behalf Of (email redacted)
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 7:29 PM
To: (email redacted); (email redacted)
Cc: (email redacted)
Subject: Re: NPC: High MPG Miata



I'm quite intrigued by your idea of DIY multiple displacement. I just don't
think it will gain you much for the effort.



Let me suggest a different angle. Lean burn. I can't find the article, but
someone did a bunch of testing on a Honda Insight with a wide band, and
discovered that the lean burn AFR's were much, MUCH leaner than previously
thought.



There is a lot of info about lean burn in general, and the Honda Insight
specifically. Here's one:

www.gassavers.org/showthread.php?t=2160



I suggest considering:

low resistance tires (or at least blow 'um up tight)

light weight wheels (obviously)

water injection (for knock resistance)

several sizes of water jets, or preferably a variable speed motor

low octane fuel (obviously)

195* thermostat (want as complete a burn as possible)

extra slippery lubricants in engine, tranny, & diff. (Obvious Man at work
again)

free-flow exhaust (maybe)

scavenging header (maybe)

hot range spark plugs

wide band sensor (obviously)

EGT gauge would be nice as well

tune your Link so the cruising zones are considerably enleaned
(experimentation required)



Log your knock sensor and simply enlean ARF's slowly till knock, then add a
bit more water. Repeat.

When additional water will not quell the knock, back up to the previous
settings. I think you could run on all 4

cyls and still get some decent mileage.



Jim in Tucson





In a message dated 5/30/2008 7:20:48 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
(email redacted) writes:

I think that stopping the compression would be pretty hard to do.
Maybe some VVT solution could be built with a newer Miata but I am
looking at buying a $5 switch and running some wires, not completely
re-engineering the ICE. Yes, the compression is definitely going to
put a hurting on the two "running" cylinders. It should be fairly easy
to test unless I am missing something (which is why I am asking before
cutting any wires <G>).

Yeah, probably nothing wrong with letting the spark go. It's not like
I would be running the car like that for any length of time. My "test
track" will be the 16.3 mile drive to work. It is made up of four 5
minute sections (separated by stop signs). During these sections it
may be possible to kill the injectors for the 2-3 minutes of straight
level road and do some coasting.


On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 9:55 PM, derf <(email redacted)> wrote:
> If you could somehow stop compression in the two cylinders in
> question, wouldn't that help with resistance?
> If you could just shut off the injectors and release the compression,
> then you might have something.
> Miatas regularly run wasted spark so you could just let the spark go, eh?
>



--
Robert McElwee and Red Beast
1991 T25 Turbo @ 15 PSI
Link ECU, FM IC, 9:1 pistons
Over 400 lbs of "added lightness"
www.lightweightmiata.com

Lightweight Miata Forum:
www.lightweightmiata.com/forum

The Miata Trailer Project:
www.lightweightmiata.com/trailer
_______________________________________________
Miatapower mailing list
(email redacted)
list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower





_____

Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch
<food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002>
"Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: ~Jeff~ <(email redacted)>

I read some Honda Insight article like that too - IIRC it can run ~25:1 AFR,
mostly due to stratified charge ... which an '80's tech B6/BP engine can't
manage.
found it: autospeed.com/cms/A_110187/article.html

I've run 16-17:1 in the Mazda, it feels anaemic and tinny. Around town it
gets really jerky too, so it's prob a motorway only deal ...

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Steve Kiffmeyer" <(email redacted)>

There was a story on the news yesterday about theft of used restaurant
grease. One owner was be-wildered that he had to lock up the grease tank to
prevent theft.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris" <(email redacted)>
To: "'Robert McElwee'" <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
Cc: <(email redacted)>
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 1:54 PM
Subject: RE: NPC: High MPG Miata


> Too late.
>
> I was at the hospital picking up a friend, and a "biofuel" company truck
> was
> grabbing the grease. I said to myself "The days of grease as a free waste
> product are OVER" lol
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: (email redacted)
> [mailto:(email redacted)] On Behalf Of Robert McElwee
> Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 11:46 AM
> To: (email redacted)
> Cc: (email redacted)
> Subject: Re: NPC: High MPG Miata
>
> That's why my goal has always been to build a car that runs on bacon
> grease. Yummy!!!
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 8:58 AM, <(email redacted)> wrote:
>> This may be a good idea; the problem with today's engines is they use
>> such
>> heavy material and so many unnecessary moving parts...and the fuel
>> stinks.
>>
>
> --
> Robert McElwee and Red Beast
> 1991 T25 Turbo @ 15 PSI
> Link ECU, FM IC, 9:1 pistons
> Over 400 lbs of "added lightness"
> www.lightweightmiata.com
>
> Lightweight Miata Forum:
> www.lightweightmiata.com/forum
>
> The Miata Trailer Project:
> www.lightweightmiata.com/trailer
> _______________________________________________
> Miatapower mailing list
> (email redacted)
> list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Miatapower mailing list
> (email redacted)
> list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: derf <(email redacted)>

My father put a Kubota diesel motor in a 73 Super Beetle. He gets
45MPG and burns half diesel and half used vegetable oil. His
favourite restaurants give him the oil and it saves them having to pay
to dispose of it.
Old Mercedes and VW diesels are good candidates for running 100% used
veg oil. So far, Uncle Sam hasn't figured out how to tax the stuff.
I'm sure it won't be long, though.

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Chris" <(email redacted)>

What hp motor is that? I been toying with a diesel Miata idea for a
while....




-----Original Message-----
From: (email redacted)
[mailto:(email redacted)] On Behalf Of derf
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 9:45 PM
To: Steve Kiffmeyer
Cc: MiataPower
Subject: Re: NPC: High MPG Miata

My father put a Kubota diesel motor in a 73 Super Beetle. He gets
45MPG and burns half diesel and half used vegetable oil. His
favourite restaurants give him the oil and it saves them having to pay
to dispose of it.
Old Mercedes and VW diesels are good candidates for running 100% used
veg oil. So far, Uncle Sam hasn't figured out how to tax the stuff.
I'm sure it won't be long, though.
_______________________________________________
Miatapower mailing list
(email redacted)
list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Chris" <(email redacted)>

Anyone think this o2 rheostat would work to any degree in saving gas?

=20

_____ =20

From: (email redacted)
[mailto:(email redacted)] On Behalf Of Chris
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 7:34 PM
To: (email redacted); (email redacted); (email redacted)
Cc: (email redacted)
Subject: RE: NPC: High MPG Miata

=20

I wonder about my Miata=85

=20

=20

Put rheostat on o/2 sensor (cuts out at higher throttle/ open loop =
anyway?),
and adjust to lean the mixture

=20

Also=85

Higher tire pressure

Install cruise control

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

_____ =20

From: (email redacted)
[mailto:(email redacted)] On Behalf Of =
(email redacted)
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 7:29 PM
To: (email redacted); (email redacted)
Cc: (email redacted)
Subject: Re: NPC: High MPG Miata

=20

I'm quite intrigued by your idea of DIY multiple displacement. I just =
don't
think it will gain you much for the effort.=20

=20

Let me suggest a different angle. Lean burn. I can't find the article, =
but
someone did a bunch of testing on a Honda Insight with a wide band, and
discovered that the lean burn AFR's were much, MUCH leaner than =
previously
thought.

=20

There is a lot of info about lean burn in general, and the Honda Insight
specifically. Here's one:

www.gassavers.org/showthread.php?t=3D2160

=20

I suggest considering:

low resistance tires (or at least blow 'um up tight)

light weight wheels (obviously)=20

water injection (for knock resistance)

several sizes of water jets, or preferably a variable speed motor

low octane fuel (obviously)

195* thermostat (want as complete a burn as possible)=20

extra slippery lubricants in engine, tranny, & diff. (Obvious Man at =
work
again)

free-flow exhaust (maybe)

scavenging header (maybe)=20

hot range spark plugs=20

wide band sensor (obviously)

EGT gauge would be nice as well

tune your Link so the cruising zones are considerably enleaned
(experimentation required)

=20

Log your knock sensor and simply enlean ARF's slowly till knock, then =
add a
bit more water. Repeat.

When additional water will not quell the knock, back up to the previous
settings. I think you could run on all 4=20

cyls and still get some decent mileage.=20

=20

Jim in Tucson

=20

=20

In a message dated 5/30/2008 7:20:48 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
(email redacted) writes:

I think that stopping the compression would be pretty hard to do.
Maybe some VVT solution could be built with a newer Miata but I am
looking at buying a $5 switch and running some wires, not completely
re-engineering the ICE. Yes, the compression is definitely going to
put a hurting on the two "running" cylinders. It should be fairly easy
to test unless I am missing something (which is why I am asking before
cutting any wires <G>).

Yeah, probably nothing wrong with letting the spark go. It's not like
I would be running the car like that for any length of time. My "test
track" will be the 16.3 mile drive to work. It is made up of four 5
minute sections (separated by stop signs). During these sections it
may be possible to kill the injectors for the 2-3 minutes of straight
level road and do some coasting.


On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 9:55 PM, derf <(email redacted)> wrote:
> If you could somehow stop compression in the two cylinders in
> question, wouldn't that help with resistance?
> If you could just shut off the injectors and release the compression,
> then you might have something.
> Miatas regularly run wasted spark so you could just let the spark go, =
eh?
>



--=20
Robert McElwee and Red Beast
1991 T25 Turbo @ 15 PSI
Link ECU, FM IC, 9:1 pistons
Over 400 lbs of "added lightness"
www.lightweightmiata.com

Lightweight Miata Forum:
www.lightweightmiata.com/forum

The Miata Trailer Project:
www.lightweightmiata.com/trailer
_______________________________________________
Miatapower mailing list
(email redacted)
list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower

=20

_____ =20

Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch
<food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=3D4&?NCID=3Daolfod0003000000000=
2>
"Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: derf <(email redacted)>

On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 8:55 PM, Chris <(email redacted)> wrote:
> What hp motor is that? I been toying with a diesel Miata idea for a
> while....
>

I'm not sure. He got the motor from a wrecked refer trailer. He sold
the refer parts and got the motor for next to nothing. The car is
actually peppier than it was with the stock flat 4.

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Robert McElwee" <(email redacted)>

Any time you have more control over the fuel mixture you have more
control over the power/efficiency. It HAS to work.

On 6/1/08, Chris <(email redacted)> wrote:
>
>
>
> Anyone think this o2 rheostat would work to any degree in saving gas?

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: derf <(email redacted)>

I saw a Civic HF at the UPullIt yard today. $250 for the motor was
tempting. It was missing the valve cover, though, and looked like it
may need some work.

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Ray Ayala" <(email redacted)>

Only on a car with a WBO2 sensor (and ECU that knows how to use it =
properly). The NBO2 sensors are nonlinear and their inflection point is =
not moveable. With an ECU that's designed to keep the sensor output =
toggling across the inflection point you'll end up with excessive =
oscillation in the A/F if you offset the sensor signal with a rheostat.


----- Original Message -----=20
From: Chris=20
To: (email redacted) ; (email redacted) ; (email redacted) =
; (email redacted)=20
Cc: (email redacted)=20
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 8:10 PM
Subject: RE: NPC: High MPG Miata


Anyone think this o2 rheostat would work to any degree in saving gas?

=20


-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----

From: (email redacted) =
[mailto:(email redacted)] On Behalf Of Chris
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 7:34 PM
To: (email redacted); (email redacted); (email redacted)
Cc: (email redacted)
Subject: RE: NPC: High MPG Miata

=20

I wonder about my Miata.

=20

=20

Put rheostat on o/2 sensor (cuts out at higher throttle/ open loop =
anyway?), and adjust to lean the mixture

=20

Also.

Higher tire pressure

Install cruise control

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20


-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----

From: (email redacted) =
[mailto:(email redacted)] On Behalf Of =
(email redacted)
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 7:29 PM
To: (email redacted); (email redacted)
Cc: (email redacted)
Subject: Re: NPC: High MPG Miata

=20

I'm quite intrigued by your idea of DIY multiple displacement. I just =
don't think it will gain you much for the effort.=20

=20

Let me suggest a different angle. Lean burn. I can't find the article, =
but someone did a bunch of testing on a Honda Insight with a wide band, =
and discovered that the lean burn AFR's were much, MUCH leaner than =
previously thought.

=20

There is a lot of info about lean burn in general, and the Honda =
Insight specifically. Here's one:

www.gassavers.org/showthread.php?t=3D2160

=20

I suggest considering:

low resistance tires (or at least blow 'um up tight)

light weight wheels (obviously)=20

water injection (for knock resistance)

several sizes of water jets, or preferably a variable speed motor

low octane fuel (obviously)

195* thermostat (want as complete a burn as possible)=20

extra slippery lubricants in engine, tranny, & diff. (Obvious Man at =
work again)

free-flow exhaust (maybe)

scavenging header (maybe)=20

hot range spark plugs=20

wide band sensor (obviously)

EGT gauge would be nice as well

tune your Link so the cruising zones are considerably enleaned =
(experimentation required)

=20

Log your knock sensor and simply enlean ARF's slowly till knock, then =
add a bit more water. Repeat.

When additional water will not quell the knock, back up to the =
previous settings. I think you could run on all 4=20

cyls and still get some decent mileage.=20

=20

Jim in Tucson

=20

=20

In a message dated 5/30/2008 7:20:48 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, =
(email redacted) writes:

I think that stopping the compression would be pretty hard to do.
Maybe some VVT solution could be built with a newer Miata but I am
looking at buying a $5 switch and running some wires, not completely
re-engineering the ICE. Yes, the compression is definitely going to
put a hurting on the two "running" cylinders. It should be fairly =
easy
to test unless I am missing something (which is why I am asking =
before
cutting any wires <G>).

Yeah, probably nothing wrong with letting the spark go. It's not =
like
I would be running the car like that for any length of time. My =
"test
track" will be the 16.3 mile drive to work. It is made up of four 5
minute sections (separated by stop signs). During these sections it
may be possible to kill the injectors for the 2-3 minutes of =
straight
level road and do some coasting.


On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 9:55 PM, derf <(email redacted)> wrote:
> If you could somehow stop compression in the two cylinders in
> question, wouldn't that help with resistance?
> If you could just shut off the injectors and release the =
compression,
> then you might have something.
> Miatas regularly run wasted spark so you could just let the spark =
go, eh?
>



--=20
Robert McElwee and Red Beast
1991 T25 Turbo @ 15 PSI
Link ECU, FM IC, 9:1 pistons
Over 400 lbs of "added lightness"
www.lightweightmiata.com

Lightweight Miata Forum:
www.lightweightmiata.com/forum

The Miata Trailer Project:
www.lightweightmiata.com/trailer
_______________________________________________
Miatapower mailing list
(email redacted)
list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower

=20


-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----

Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler =
Florence" on AOL Food.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----


_______________________________________________
Miatapower mailing list
(email redacted)
list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Chris" <(email redacted)>

Ray, thank you! =20

=20

_____ =20

From: (email redacted)
[mailto:(email redacted)] On Behalf Of Ray Ayala
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 10:17 AM
Cc: (email redacted)
Subject: Re: NPC: High MPG Miata

=20

Only on a car with a WBO2 sensor (and ECU that knows how to use it
properly). The NBO2 sensors are nonlinear and their inflection point is =
not
moveable. With an ECU that's designed to keep the sensor output =
toggling
across the inflection point you'll end up with excessive oscillation in =
the
A/F if you offset the sensor signal with a rheostat.

=20

=20

----- Original Message -----=20

From: Chris <mailto:(email redacted)> =20

To: (email redacted) ; (email redacted) ; (email redacted) ;
(email redacted)=20

Cc: (email redacted)=20

Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 8:10 PM

Subject: RE: NPC: High MPG Miata

=20

Anyone think this o2 rheostat would work to any degree in saving gas?

=20


_____ =20


From: (email redacted)
[mailto:(email redacted)] On Behalf Of Chris
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 7:34 PM
To: (email redacted); (email redacted); (email redacted)
Cc: (email redacted)
Subject: RE: NPC: High MPG Miata

=20

I wonder about my Miata=85

=20

=20

Put rheostat on o/2 sensor (cuts out at higher throttle/ open loop =
anyway?),
and adjust to lean the mixture

=20

Also=85

Higher tire pressure

Install cruise control

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20


_____ =20


From: (email redacted)
[mailto:(email redacted)] On Behalf Of =
(email redacted)
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 7:29 PM
To: (email redacted); (email redacted)
Cc: (email redacted)
Subject: Re: NPC: High MPG Miata

=20

I'm quite intrigued by your idea of DIY multiple displacement. I just =
don't
think it will gain you much for the effort.=20

=20

Let me suggest a different angle. Lean burn. I can't find the article, =
but
someone did a bunch of testing on a Honda Insight with a wide band, and
discovered that the lean burn AFR's were much, MUCH leaner than =
previously
thought.

=20

There is a lot of info about lean burn in general, and the Honda Insight
specifically. Here's one:

www.gassavers.org/showthread.php?t=3D2160

=20

I suggest considering:

low resistance tires (or at least blow 'um up tight)

light weight wheels (obviously)=20

water injection (for knock resistance)

several sizes of water jets, or preferably a variable speed motor

low octane fuel (obviously)

195* thermostat (want as complete a burn as possible)=20

extra slippery lubricants in engine, tranny, & diff. (Obvious Man at =
work
again)

free-flow exhaust (maybe)

scavenging header (maybe)=20

hot range spark plugs=20

wide band sensor (obviously)

EGT gauge would be nice as well

tune your Link so the cruising zones are considerably enleaned
(experimentation required)

=20

Log your knock sensor and simply enlean ARF's slowly till knock, then =
add a
bit more water. Repeat.

When additional water will not quell the knock, back up to the previous
settings. I think you could run on all 4=20

cyls and still get some decent mileage.=20

=20

Jim in Tucson

=20

=20

In a message dated 5/30/2008 7:20:48 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
(email redacted) writes:

I think that stopping the compression would be pretty hard to do.
Maybe some VVT solution could be built with a newer Miata but I am
looking at buying a $5 switch and running some wires, not completely
re-engineering the ICE. Yes, the compression is definitely going to
put a hurting on the two "running" cylinders. It should be fairly easy
to test unless I am missing something (which is why I am asking before
cutting any wires <G>).

Yeah, probably nothing wrong with letting the spark go. It's not like
I would be running the car like that for any length of time. My "test
track" will be the 16.3 mile drive to work. It is made up of four 5
minute sections (separated by stop signs). During these sections it
may be possible to kill the injectors for the 2-3 minutes of straight
level road and do some coasting.


On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 9:55 PM, derf <(email redacted)> wrote:
> If you could somehow stop compression in the two cylinders in
> question, wouldn't that help with resistance?
> If you could just shut off the injectors and release the compression,
> then you might have something.
> Miatas regularly run wasted spark so you could just let the spark go, =
eh?
>



--=20
Robert McElwee and Red Beast
1991 T25 Turbo @ 15 PSI
Link ECU, FM IC, 9:1 pistons
Over 400 lbs of "added lightness"
www.lightweightmiata.com

Lightweight Miata Forum:
www.lightweightmiata.com/forum

The Miata Trailer Project:
www.lightweightmiata.com/trailer
_______________________________________________
Miatapower mailing list
(email redacted)
list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower

=20


_____ =20


Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch
<food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=3D4&?NCID=3Daolfod0003000000000=
2>
"Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.


_____ =20


_______________________________________________
Miatapower mailing list
(email redacted)
list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Mark Cookson" <(email redacted)>

I don't know about most states, but in my readings about home brew
diesel, I found that in CA it's illegal to run more than 400 gallons a
year of non-taxed home-brew fuel in a road going car. I don't know
what you're supposed to do after that, pay someone a road tax, or just
switch to regular gas? Don't know how easy it would be for them to
bring a case either; but they're not dumb and they're looking to keep
their revenue stream intact (and let's face it, CA roads need all the
money they can get).

Out here in MN, they regularly check diesel trucks in the farming
areas because farmers can get non-taxed fuel for their farm use. That
fuel is dyed bright red, and a little dye goes a long way so you don't
ever want to put any in your tank. I had to give the wife a proper
talking to when the local gas station got a farm-use diesel pump to
make sure that she was never tempted to fill up there (it's about 25
cents cheaper).

Mark

On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 8:45 PM, derf <(email redacted)> wrote:
> My father put a Kubota diesel motor in a 73 Super Beetle. He gets
> 45MPG and burns half diesel and half used vegetable oil. His
> favourite restaurants give him the oil and it saves them having to pay
> to dispose of it.
> Old Mercedes and VW diesels are good candidates for running 100% used
> veg oil. So far, Uncle Sam hasn't figured out how to tax the stuff.
> I'm sure it won't be long, though.
> _______________________________________________
> Miatapower mailing list
> (email redacted)
> list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Chris" <(email redacted)>

Here are some mods, megasquirt, wideband, air dam, and more, that may apply
to a Miata.



metroxfi.com/modifications/







_____

From: (email redacted)
[mailto:(email redacted)] On Behalf Of ~Jeff~
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 9:26 PM
To: (email redacted)
Subject: Re: NPC: High MPG Miata



I read some Honda Insight article like that too - IIRC it can run ~25:1 AFR,
mostly due to stratified charge ... which an '80's tech B6/BP engine can't
manage.
found it: autospeed.com/cms/A_110187/article.html

I've run 16-17:1 in the Mazda, it feels anaemic and tinny. Around town it
gets really jerky too, so it's prob a motorway only deal ...