Miatapower List Archive

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Chad J. Douglas" <(email redacted)>

Noone answered part of my origial question, so I'll restate, in case it got=
overlooked...


The measurements I took (if I used my tools properly) suggest that the bore=
is out of spec by as much as .0035in.

If .0035 was worn from the bore, why would I still be able to see the hone =
marks?

I am using a telescoping bore gauge and a dial caliper to measure.

What method do you engine builders use to use the bore gauge?

I suspect I'm doing it wrong.

Chad

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Tom" <(email redacted)>

Use a use a micrometer in conjunction with the bore gauge not calipers for
better accuracy - 3.5 thou off and you'd see shiny polished cylinders, not
hone. Are you 0.0035 off of the piston or the bore spec? You may just be
measuring the clearance..

If you look around, you can find a true bore gauge for <$100. search for
starrett, fowler, or mitutoyo on ebay. Makes checking for taper and
out-of-round much quicker.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chad J. Douglas" <(email redacted)>
To: <(email redacted)>
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 8:50 PM
Subject: More about bore measure


Noone answered part of my origial question, so I'll restate, in case it got
overlooked...


The measurements I took (if I used my tools properly) suggest that the bore
is out of spec by as much as .0035in.

If .0035 was worn from the bore, why would I still be able to see the hone
marks?

I am using a telescoping bore gauge and a dial caliper to measure.

What method do you engine builders use to use the bore gauge?

I suspect I'm doing it wrong.

Chad

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Chad J. Douglas" <(email redacted)>

I beasured the actual bore.

The hone marks are kinda hard to see, but they are there, and they are pres=
ent all the way around and all the way down all 4 cylinders.

Any idea what I'lll have to pay for a mic? Any idea where I can get one th=
at is good enough for the job, but inexpensive?

Thanks,

Chad

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 12:09 AM
To: Chad J. Douglas; (email redacted)
Subject: Re: More about bore measure


Use a use a micrometer in conjunction with the bore gauge not calipers for
better accuracy - 3.5 thou off and you'd see shiny polished cylinders, not
hone. Are you 0.0035 off of the piston or the bore spec? You may just be
measuring the clearance..

If you look around, you can find a true bore gauge for <$100. search for
starrett, fowler, or mitutoyo on ebay. Makes checking for taper and
out-of-round much quicker.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chad J. Douglas" <(email redacted)>
To: <(email redacted)>
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 8:50 PM
Subject: More about bore measure


Noone answered part of my origial question, so I'll restate, in case it got
overlooked...


The measurements I took (if I used my tools properly) suggest that the bore
is out of spec by as much as .0035in.

If .0035 was worn from the bore, why would I still be able to see the hone
marks?

I am using a telescoping bore gauge and a dial caliper to measure.

What method do you engine builders use to use the bore gauge?

I suspect I'm doing it wrong.

Chad

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Robert Mangas" <(email redacted)>


Tom's right about ebay- I've purchased several Mitutoyo measurment tools
there at a steep discount.


cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2513173703&category=20043




>From: "Chad J. Douglas" <(email redacted)>
>To: "Tom" <(email redacted)>, <(email redacted)>
>Subject: RE: More about bore measure
>Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 07:03:49 -0500
>
>I beasured the actual bore.
>
>The hone marks are kinda hard to see, but they are there, and they are
>present all the way around and all the way down all 4 cylinders.
>
>Any idea what I'lll have to pay for a mic? Any idea where I can get one
>that is good enough for the job, but inexpensive?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Chad
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Tom [mailto:(email redacted)]
>Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 12:09 AM
>To: Chad J. Douglas; (email redacted)
>Subject: Re: More about bore measure
>
>
>Use a use a micrometer in conjunction with the bore gauge not calipers for
>better accuracy - 3.5 thou off and you'd see shiny polished cylinders, not
>hone. Are you 0.0035 off of the piston or the bore spec? You may just be
>measuring the clearance..
>
>If you look around, you can find a true bore gauge for <$100. search for
>starrett, fowler, or mitutoyo on ebay. Makes checking for taper and
>out-of-round much quicker.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Chad J. Douglas" <(email redacted)>
>To: <(email redacted)>
>Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 8:50 PM
>Subject: More about bore measure
>
>
>Noone answered part of my origial question, so I'll restate, in case it got
>overlooked...
>
>
>The measurements I took (if I used my tools properly) suggest that the bore
>is out of spec by as much as .0035in.
>
>If .0035 was worn from the bore, why would I still be able to see the hone
>marks?
>
>I am using a telescoping bore gauge and a dial caliper to measure.
>
>What method do you engine builders use to use the bore gauge?
>
>I suspect I'm doing it wrong.
>
>Chad
>


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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Chad J. Douglas" <(email redacted)>

Since my "car budget" is kinda weak these days, the prices for a dedicated =
bore gauge were a bit higher than the budget will allow right now.
=20
I did, however, find a 3-4" micrometer for cheap. I'll just have to practi=
ce using the telescoping bore gauges. It seems that if you tilt the gauge =
"just so" after setting it, it comes out without touching the sides.
=20
Once I get this new mic, I will practice getting identical measurements. O=
nce I feel confident, I will remeasure to see if the bores are right.
=20
When I saw the numbers I knew something had to be wrong, since I was able t=
o see the hone marks in the cylinders..I KNEW the bores couldn't be worn b=
y .0035....I don't know what the actual measurement is for the hone marks, =
but I suspect that they're a whole lot shallower than .0035....maybe .001 a=
t the deepest.
=20
So, I'll measure again..
=20
Thanks for the input. I'm sure I'll be back to pick your brains again.....=
....
=20
Chad

-----Original Message-----=20
From: Robert Mangas [mailto:(email redacted)]=20
Sent: Mon 3/10/2003 8:00 AM=20
To: Chad J. Douglas; (email redacted); (email redacted)=20
Cc:=20
Subject: RE: More about bore measure
=09
=09


Tom's right about ebay- I've purchased several Mitutoyo measurment tools
there at a steep discount.
=09
=09
cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D2513173703&category=
=3D20043
=09
=09
=09
=09
>From: "Chad J. Douglas" <(email redacted)>
>To: "Tom" <(email redacted)>, <(email redacted)>
>Subject: RE: More about bore measure
>Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 07:03:49 -0500
>
>I beasured the actual bore.
>
>The hone marks are kinda hard to see, but they are there, and they are
>present all the way around and all the way down all 4 cylinders.
>
>Any idea what I'lll have to pay for a mic? Any idea where I can get one
>that is good enough for the job, but inexpensive?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Chad
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Tom [mailto:(email redacted)]
>Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 12:09 AM
>To: Chad J. Douglas; (email redacted)
>Subject: Re: More about bore measure
>
>
>Use a use a micrometer in conjunction with the bore gauge not calipers for
>better accuracy - 3.5 thou off and you'd see shiny polished cylinders, not
>hone. Are you 0.0035 off of the piston or the bore spec? You may just be
>measuring the clearance..
>
>If you look around, you can find a true bore gauge for <$100. search for
>starrett, fowler, or mitutoyo on ebay. Makes checking for taper and
>out-of-round much quicker.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Chad J. Douglas" <(email redacted)>
>To: <(email redacted)>
>Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 8:50 PM
>Subject: More about bore measure
>
>
>Noone answered part of my origial question, so I'll restate, in case it g=
ot
>overlooked...
>
>
>The measurements I took (if I used my tools properly) suggest that the bo=
re
>is out of spec by as much as .0035in.
>
>If .0035 was worn from the bore, why would I still be able to see the hone
>marks?
>
>I am using a telescoping bore gauge and a dial caliper to measure.
>
>What method do you engine builders use to use the bore gauge?
>
>I suspect I'm doing it wrong.
>
>Chad
>
=09
=09
_________________________________________________________________
Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/junkmail
=09
=09

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)


Would a lighted magnifying glass and maybe a mirror help ya read the gauge?
Just a thought..

Wallyman




"Chad J. Douglas"
<chad@linuxpupil. To: "Robert Mangas" <(email redacted)>, <(email redacted)>,
com> <(email redacted)>
cc:
03/10/2003 09:06 Subject: RE: More about bore measure
AM






Since my "car budget" is kinda weak these days, the prices for a dedicated
bore gauge were a bit higher than the budget will allow right now.

I did, however, find a 3-4" micrometer for cheap. I'll just have to
practice using the telescoping bore gauges. It seems that if you tilt the
gauge "just so" after setting it, it comes out without touching the sides.

Once I get this new mic, I will practice getting identical measurements.
Once I feel confident, I will remeasure to see if the bores are right.

When I saw the numbers I knew something had to be wrong, since I was able
to see the hone marks in the cylinders..I KNEW the bores couldn't be worn
by .0035....I don't know what the actual measurement is for the hone marks,
but I suspect that they're a whole lot shallower than .0035....maybe .001
at the deepest.

So, I'll measure again..

Thanks for the input. I'm sure I'll be back to pick your brains
again.........

Chad

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Mangas [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Mon 3/10/2003 8:00 AM
To: Chad J. Douglas; (email redacted);
(email redacted)
Cc:
Subject: RE: More about bore measure




Tom's right about ebay- I've purchased several Mitutoyo
measurment tools
there at a steep discount.



cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2513173703&category=20043





>From: "Chad J. Douglas" <(email redacted)>
>To: "Tom" <(email redacted)>, <(email redacted)>
>Subject: RE: More about bore measure
>Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 07:03:49 -0500
>
>I beasured the actual bore.
>
>The hone marks are kinda hard to see, but they are there, and
they are
>present all the way around and all the way down all 4
cylinders.
>
>Any idea what I'lll have to pay for a mic? Any idea where I
can get one
>that is good enough for the job, but inexpensive?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Chad
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Tom [mailto:(email redacted)]
>Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 12:09 AM
>To: Chad J. Douglas; (email redacted)
>Subject: Re: More about bore measure
>
>
>Use a use a micrometer in conjunction with the bore gauge not
calipers for
>better accuracy - 3.5 thou off and you'd see shiny polished
cylinders, not
>hone. Are you 0.0035 off of the piston or the bore spec? You
may just be
>measuring the clearance..
>
>If you look around, you can find a true bore gauge for <$100.
search for
>starrett, fowler, or mitutoyo on ebay. Makes checking for
taper and
>out-of-round much quicker.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Chad J. Douglas" <(email redacted)>
>To: <(email redacted)>
>Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 8:50 PM
>Subject: More about bore measure
>
>
>Noone answered part of my origial question, so I'll restate,
in case it got
>overlooked...
>
>
>The measurements I took (if I used my tools properly) suggest
that the bore
>is out of spec by as much as .0035in.
>
>If .0035 was worn from the bore, why would I still be able to
see the hone
>marks?
>
>I am using a telescoping bore gauge and a dial caliper to
measure.
>
>What method do you engine builders use to use the bore gauge?
>
>I suspect I'm doing it wrong.
>
>Chad
>



_________________________________________________________________
Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Chad J. Douglas" <(email redacted)>

It's not that I can't read it.
=20
The bore gauge I have does not have a dial on it. It's the kind that you i=
nsert, then turn a locking collar and then remove and measure with a mic or=
a set of calipers.
=20
Well, I have a set of calipers that are accurate to .001. The shop manual =
calls for accuracy to .0001.
=20
I think I am using the bore gauge wrong. I think I need to be more careful=
when removing the gauge after setting it. It's difficult to get the colla=
r super tight while the gauge is in there. It'll stay put, but if I bump i=
t too hard on the cylinder wall while removing it, I may change the measure=
ment.=20=20
=20
Then, when I extracted it, I would tighten the collar down to lock it "real=
good." Then I'd measure it with my dial caliper, which doesn't have enoug=
h precision.
=20
So, I've got 2 problems. I think I'm using the bore gauge wrong, and I thi=
nk my measuring tool is not precise enough. I've remedied the precision pro=
blem by ordering a mic that has graduations of .0001.
=20
Now, I just need some tips on how to use the telescoping bore guages proper=
ly so I get an accurate measure. I think I can just tilt the gauge out of =
the bore without affecting it.=20=20
=20
I will practice getting exact measurements once I get the mic.=20=20
=20
Does anyone have anyh pointers on using these telescoping bore gauges?=20
=20
Thanks to all,
=20
Chad

-----Original Message-----=20
From: (email redacted) [mailto:(email redacted)]=20
Sent: Mon 3/10/2003 9:32 AM=20
To: Chad J. Douglas=20
Cc: (email redacted); (email redacted); porter_t_dog@hotmail.c=
om=20
Subject: RE: More about bore measure
=09
=09


Would a lighted magnifying glass and maybe a mirror help ya read the gauge?
Just a thought..
=09
Wallyman
=09
=09
=09
=09=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
"Chad J. Douglas"=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
<chad@linuxpupil. To: "Robert Mangas" <=
(email redacted)>, <(email redacted)>,=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20
com> <(email redacted)=
>=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
cc:=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20
03/10/2003 09:06 Subject: RE: More about bo=
re measure=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20
AM=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
=09=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
=09=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
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=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
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=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
=09
=09
=09
=09
Since my "car budget" is kinda weak these days, the prices for a dedicated
bore gauge were a bit higher than the budget will allow right now.
=09
I did, however, find a 3-4" micrometer for cheap. I'll just have to
practice using the telescoping bore gauges. It seems that if you tilt the
gauge "just so" after setting it, it comes out without touching the sides.
=09
Once I get this new mic, I will practice getting identical measurements.
Once I feel confident, I will remeasure to see if the bores are right.
=09
When I saw the numbers I knew something had to be wrong, since I was able
to see the hone marks in the cylinders..I KNEW the bores couldn't be worn
by .0035....I don't know what the actual measurement is for the hone marks,
but I suspect that they're a whole lot shallower than .0035....maybe .001
at the deepest.
=09
So, I'll measure again..
=09
Thanks for the input. I'm sure I'll be back to pick your brains
again.........
=09
Chad
=09
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Mangas [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Mon 3/10/2003 8:00 AM
To: Chad J. Douglas; (email redacted);
(email redacted)
Cc:
Subject: RE: More about bore measure
=09
=09
=09
=09
Tom's right about ebay- I've purchased several Mitutoyo
measurment tools
there at a steep discount.
=09
=09
=09
cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D2513173703&category=
=3D20043
=09
=09
=09
=09
=09
>From: "Chad J. Douglas" <(email redacted)>
>To: "Tom" <(email redacted)>, <(email redacted)>
>Subject: RE: More about bore measure
>Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 07:03:49 -0500
>
>I beasured the actual bore.
>
>The hone marks are kinda hard to see, but they are there, and
they are
>present all the way around and all the way down all 4
cylinders.
>
>Any idea what I'lll have to pay for a mic? Any idea where I
can get one
>that is good enough for the job, but inexpensive?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Chad
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Tom [mailto:(email redacted)]
>Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 12:09 AM
>To: Chad J. Douglas; (email redacted)
>Subject: Re: More about bore measure
>
>
>Use a use a micrometer in conjunction with the bore gauge not
calipers for
>better accuracy - 3.5 thou off and you'd see shiny polished
cylinders, not
>hone. Are you 0.0035 off of the piston or the bore spec? You
may just be
>measuring the clearance..
>
>If you look around, you can find a true bore gauge for <$100.
search for
>starrett, fowler, or mitutoyo on ebay. Makes checking for
taper and
>out-of-round much quicker.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Chad J. Douglas" <(email redacted)>
>To: <(email redacted)>
>Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 8:50 PM
>Subject: More about bore measure
>
>
>Noone answered part of my origial question, so I'll restate,
in case it got
>overlooked...
>
>
>The measurements I took (if I used my tools properly) suggest
that the bore
>is out of spec by as much as .0035in.
>
>If .0035 was worn from the bore, why would I still be able to
see the hone
>marks?
>
>I am using a telescoping bore gauge and a dial caliper to
measure.
>
>What method do you engine builders use to use the bore gauge?
>
>I suspect I'm doing it wrong.
>
>Chad
>
=09
=09
=09
_________________________________________________________________
Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/junkmail
=09
=09
=09
=09
=09
=09
=09
=09
=09

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)

Why not stop by an automotive machine shop with the block?
You could see how they check the block and get professional recommendations.
I know you want to do this stuff yourself, but for a few bucks you can get
the correct answers and an education at the same time.
At the least, the block is going to have to be cleaned and honed, deck
checked etc.
Unless you will be doing a lot of this, the investment in tools, etc., is
probably not worth it.

Every machine shop I've ever used love to talk about, and explain what they
do.



<< Since my "car budget" is kinda weak these days, the prices for a dedicated
bore gauge were a bit higher than the budget will allow right now.

I did, however, find a 3-4" micrometer for cheap. I'll just have to
practice using the telescoping bore gauges. It seems that if you tilt the
gauge "just so" after setting it, it comes out without touching the sides.

Once I get this new mic, I will practice getting identical measurements.
Once I feel confident, I will remeasure to see if the bores are right.

When I saw the numbers I knew something had to be wrong, since I was able to
see the hone marks in the cylinders..I KNEW the bores couldn't be worn by
.0035....I don't know what the actual measurement is for the hone marks, but
I suspect that they're a whole lot shallower than .0035....maybe .001 at the
deepest.

So, I'll measure again..

Thanks for the input. I'm sure I'll be back to pick your brains
again.........

Chad >>


Les.
www.apexautoeng.com

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Brad Franks" <(email redacted)>

Chad,

It depends on how the bore was honed and how you are measuring. I don't
recall the history of your block but... When you install and torque the head
bolts (either with the head or with a plate) it will deform the block,
especially in the areas around the head bolts.

You will see oddities like this if it was honed previously with the bolts
installed and torqued and you are currently measuring without them...or
vice-versa - you have a plate installed and they were honed without.

Brad

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chad J. Douglas" <(email redacted)>
To: <(email redacted)>
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 5:50 PM
Subject: More about bore measure


Noone answered part of my origial question, so I'll restate, in case it got
overlooked...


The measurements I took (if I used my tools properly) suggest that the bore
is out of spec by as much as .0035in.

If .0035 was worn from the bore, why would I still be able to see the hone
marks?

I am using a telescoping bore gauge and a dial caliper to measure.

What method do you engine builders use to use the bore gauge?

I suspect I'm doing it wrong.

Chad

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Chad J. Douglas" <(email redacted)>

I certainly can appeciate that approach, and for some parts of this job, I =
will let a shop do it.
=20
However, my goal is not only to build a motor, but to learn how it is done.=
I want to learn to take the measurments, then make the decision to bore o=
r not based on what I've learned and the recommendations of others whose op=
ionions I trust (such as the tribal knowledge contained in this mailing lis=
t alone)
=20
I realize that it'll cost more in the end to buy the tools, but I guess tha=
t's the cost of an education.
=20
Besides, I may like this so much I have a career change....... (IT to Engin=
es)
=20
Chad

-----Original Message-----=20
From: (email redacted) [mailto:(email redacted)]=20
Sent: Mon 3/10/2003 10:58 AM=20
To: (email redacted)=20
Cc:=20
Subject: Re: More about bore measure
=09
=09

Why not stop by an automotive machine shop with the block?
You could see how they check the block and get professional recommendation=
s.
I know you want to do this stuff yourself, but for a few bucks you can get
the correct answers and an education at the same time.
At the least, the block is going to have to be cleaned and honed, deck
checked etc.
Unless you will be doing a lot of this, the investment in tools, etc., is
probably not worth it.
=09
Every machine shop I've ever used love to talk about, and explain what they
do.
=09
=09
=09
<< Since my "car budget" is kinda weak these days, the prices for a dedica=
ted
bore gauge were a bit higher than the budget will allow right now.
=09=20
I did, however, find a 3-4" micrometer for cheap. I'll just have to
practice using the telescoping bore gauges. It seems that if you tilt the
gauge "just so" after setting it, it comes out without touching the sides.
=09=20
Once I get this new mic, I will practice getting identical measurements.=
=20
Once I feel confident, I will remeasure to see if the bores are right.
=09=20
When I saw the numbers I knew something had to be wrong, since I was able=
to
see the hone marks in the cylinders..I KNEW the bores couldn't be worn by
.0035....I don't know what the actual measurement is for the hone marks, b=
ut
I suspect that they're a whole lot shallower than .0035....maybe .001 at t=
he
deepest.
=09=20
So, I'll measure again..
=09=20
Thanks for the input. I'm sure I'll be back to pick your brains
again.........
=09=20
Chad >>
=09
=09
Les.
www.apexautoeng.com
=09

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Bill Cardell <(email redacted)>

I'm with Les. I let the people who know machining do that stuff.

Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad)
(email redacted)
Flyin' Miata
1-800-359-6957 (sales only)
970-242-3800 (tech support)
flyinmiata.com
flyinprotege.com

-----Original Message-----
From: (email redacted) [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 8:59 AM
To: (email redacted)
Subject: Re: More about bore measure


Why not stop by an automotive machine shop with the block?
You could see how they check the block and get professional recommendations.
I know you want to do this stuff yourself, but for a few bucks you can get
the correct answers and an education at the same time.
At the least, the block is going to have to be cleaned and honed, deck
checked etc.
Unless you will be doing a lot of this, the investment in tools, etc., is
probably not worth it.

Every machine shop I've ever used love to talk about, and explain what they
do.



<< Since my "car budget" is kinda weak these days, the prices for a
dedicated
bore gauge were a bit higher than the budget will allow right now.

I did, however, find a 3-4" micrometer for cheap. I'll just have to
practice using the telescoping bore gauges. It seems that if you tilt the
gauge "just so" after setting it, it comes out without touching the sides.

Once I get this new mic, I will practice getting identical measurements.
Once I feel confident, I will remeasure to see if the bores are right.

When I saw the numbers I knew something had to be wrong, since I was able
to
see the hone marks in the cylinders..I KNEW the bores couldn't be worn by
.0035....I don't know what the actual measurement is for the hone marks, but

I suspect that they're a whole lot shallower than .0035....maybe .001 at the

deepest.

So, I'll measure again..

Thanks for the input. I'm sure I'll be back to pick your brains
again.........

Chad >>


Les.
www.apexautoeng.com

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Bill Cardell <(email redacted)>

No, we've never done a stock bore rebuild, so I don't have any reason to
measure before they go to the shop. Rationale is if you're going in there,
may as well make some extra power. Even if your bore is in decent shape, it
should still be honed to get a good seal with the new rings, and if you hone
it, then you probably will end up at or beyond the wear limit. YBSMV

Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad)
(email redacted)
Flyin' Miata
1-800-359-6957 (sales only)
970-242-3800 (tech support)
flyinmiata.com
flyinprotege.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Chad J. Douglas [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 9:59 AM
To: Bill Cardell; (email redacted)
Subject: RE: More about bore measure


So, you take all blocks to the machine shop to be measured? I thought you
guys did in-house measurements to see if a rebore was required......
Doesn't that mean that your engine builds take considerably longer since you
have to send the block out to get it checked before you can even begin?

OK - I'f I'm gonna send this to a shop to be measured, what can I expect to
pay for these services?

Chad

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Cardell [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Mon 3/10/2003 11:33 AM
To: '(email redacted)'; (email redacted)
Cc:
Subject: RE: More about bore measure



I'm with Les. I let the people who know machining do that stuff.

Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad)
(email redacted)
Flyin' Miata
1-800-359-6957 (sales only)
970-242-3800 (tech support)
flyinmiata.com
flyinprotege.com

-----Original Message-----
From: (email redacted) [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 8:59 AM
To: (email redacted)
Subject: Re: More about bore measure


Why not stop by an automotive machine shop with the block?
You could see how they check the block and get professional
recommendations.
I know you want to do this stuff yourself, but for a few bucks you
can get
the correct answers and an education at the same time.
At the least, the block is going to have to be cleaned and honed,
deck
checked etc.
Unless you will be doing a lot of this, the investment in tools,
etc., is
probably not worth it.

Every machine shop I've ever used love to talk about, and explain
what they
do.



<< Since my "car budget" is kinda weak these days, the prices for a
dedicated
bore gauge were a bit higher than the budget will allow right now.

I did, however, find a 3-4" micrometer for cheap. I'll just have
to
practice using the telescoping bore gauges. It seems that if you
tilt the
gauge "just so" after setting it, it comes out without touching the
sides.

Once I get this new mic, I will practice getting identical
measurements.
Once I feel confident, I will remeasure to see if the bores are
right.

When I saw the numbers I knew something had to be wrong, since I
was able
to
see the hone marks in the cylinders..I KNEW the bores couldn't be
worn by
.0035....I don't know what the actual measurement is for the hone
marks, but

I suspect that they're a whole lot shallower than .0035....maybe
.001 at the

deepest.

So, I'll measure again..

Thanks for the input. I'm sure I'll be back to pick your brains
again.........

Chad >>


Les.
www.apexautoeng.com

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Chad J. Douglas" <(email redacted)>

So, you take all blocks to the machine shop to be measured? I thought you =
guys did in-house measurements to see if a rebore was required...... Doesn=
't that mean that your engine builds take considerably longer since you hav=
e to send the block out to get it checked before you can even begin?
=20
OK - I'f I'm gonna send this to a shop to be measured, what can I expect to=
pay for these services?
=20
Chad

-----Original Message-----=20
From: Bill Cardell [mailto:(email redacted)]=20
Sent: Mon 3/10/2003 11:33 AM=20
To: '(email redacted)'; (email redacted)=20
Cc:=20
Subject: RE: More about bore measure
=09
=09

I'm with Les. I let the people who know machining do that stuff.
=09
Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad)
(email redacted)
Flyin' Miata
1-800-359-6957 (sales only)
970-242-3800 (tech support)
flyinmiata.com
flyinprotege.com
=09
-----Original Message-----
From: (email redacted) [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 8:59 AM
To: (email redacted)
Subject: Re: More about bore measure
=09
=09
Why not stop by an automotive machine shop with the block?
You could see how they check the block and get professional recommendation=
s.
I know you want to do this stuff yourself, but for a few bucks you can get
the correct answers and an education at the same time.
At the least, the block is going to have to be cleaned and honed, deck
checked etc.
Unless you will be doing a lot of this, the investment in tools, etc., is
probably not worth it.
=09
Every machine shop I've ever used love to talk about, and explain what they
do.
=09
=09
=09
<< Since my "car budget" is kinda weak these days, the prices for a
dedicated
bore gauge were a bit higher than the budget will allow right now.
=09=20
I did, however, find a 3-4" micrometer for cheap. I'll just have to
practice using the telescoping bore gauges. It seems that if you tilt the
gauge "just so" after setting it, it comes out without touching the sides.
=09=20
Once I get this new mic, I will practice getting identical measurements.=
=20
Once I feel confident, I will remeasure to see if the bores are right.
=09=20
When I saw the numbers I knew something had to be wrong, since I was able
to
see the hone marks in the cylinders..I KNEW the bores couldn't be worn by
.0035....I don't know what the actual measurement is for the hone marks, b=
ut
=09
I suspect that they're a whole lot shallower than .0035....maybe .001 at t=
he
=09
deepest.
=09=20
So, I'll measure again..
=09=20
Thanks for the input. I'm sure I'll be back to pick your brains
again.........
=09=20
Chad >>
=09
=09
Les.
www.apexautoeng.com
=09

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Larry Alster" <(email redacted)>

YBSMV
>
> Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad)
> (email redacted)
> Flyin' Miata
> 1-800-359-6957 (sales only)
> 970-242-3800 (tech support)
> flyinmiata.com
> flyinprotege.com


Bill, I like it. When was the last time someone told you your seriously
warped?? :) Wait, would that have been Teri, this morning. :)

Larry Alster

1991 "White Knight" CSP #99
1992 "Silver Bullet" EM #17 BEGI System 4.2+
1992 "Honey Bee"

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Bill Cardell <(email redacted)>

Hey, leave my anatomy out of this.

Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad)
(email redacted)
Flyin' Miata
1-800-359-6957 (sales only)
970-242-3800 (tech support)
flyinmiata.com
flyinprotege.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Alster [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 1:04 PM
To: Bill Cardell; (email redacted)
Subject: Re: More about bore measure


YBSMV
>
> Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad)
> (email redacted)
> Flyin' Miata
> 1-800-359-6957 (sales only)
> 970-242-3800 (tech support)
> flyinmiata.com
> flyinprotege.com


Bill, I like it. When was the last time someone told you your seriously
warped?? :) Wait, would that have been Teri, this morning. :)

Larry Alster

1991 "White Knight" CSP #99
1992 "Silver Bullet" EM #17 BEGI System 4.2+
1992 "Honey Bee"

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Chad J. Douglas" <(email redacted)>

OK - That TOTALLY went over my head.
=20
YBSMV?
=20
Your Bull Shit May Vary?
=20
Your Big Siamese Might Vomit?
=20
??
=20
I don't know That one.....YBSMV?

-----Original Message-----=20
From: Larry Alster [mailto:(email redacted)]=20
Sent: Mon 3/10/2003 3:03 PM=20
To: Bill Cardell; (email redacted)=20
Cc:=20
Subject: Re: More about bore measure
=09
=09

YBSMV
>
> Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad)
> (email redacted)
> Flyin' Miata
> 1-800-359-6957 (sales only)
> 970-242-3800 (tech support)
> flyinmiata.com
> flyinprotege.com
=09
=09
Bill, I like it. When was the last time someone told you your seriously
warped?? :) Wait, would that have been Teri, this morning. :)
=09
Larry Alster
=09
1991 "White Knight" CSP #99
1992 "Silver Bullet" EM #17 BEGI System 4.2+
1992 "Honey Bee"
=09
=09
=09
=09
=09

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Bill Cardell <(email redacted)>

what were we talking about-BORE SIZE

Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad)
(email redacted)
Flyin' Miata
1-800-359-6957 (sales only)
970-242-3800 (tech support)
flyinmiata.com
flyinprotege.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Chad J. Douglas [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 1:12 PM
To: Larry Alster; Bill Cardell; (email redacted)
Subject: RE: More about bore measure


OK - That TOTALLY went over my head.

YBSMV?

Your Bull Shit May Vary?

Your Big Siamese Might Vomit?

??

I don't know That one.....YBSMV?

-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Alster [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Mon 3/10/2003 3:03 PM
To: Bill Cardell; (email redacted)
Cc:
Subject: Re: More about bore measure



YBSMV
>
> Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad)
> (email redacted)
> Flyin' Miata
> 1-800-359-6957 (sales only)
> 970-242-3800 (tech support)
> flyinmiata.com
> flyinprotege.com


Bill, I like it. When was the last time someone told you your
seriously
warped?? :) Wait, would that have been Teri, this morning. :)

Larry Alster

1991 "White Knight" CSP #99
1992 "Silver Bullet" EM #17 BEGI System 4.2+
1992 "Honey Bee"

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Chad J. Douglas" <(email redacted)>

(puts on the dunce cap and slinks over into the corner)
=20
Nevermind.
=20
=20

-----Original Message-----=20
From: Bill Cardell [mailto:(email redacted)]=20
Sent: Mon 3/10/2003 3:15 PM=20
To: Chad J. Douglas; Larry Alster; Bill Cardell; (email redacted)=
=20
Cc:=20
Subject: RE: More about bore measure
=09
=09

what were we talking about-BORE SIZE
=09
Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad)
(email redacted)
Flyin' Miata
1-800-359-6957 (sales only)
970-242-3800 (tech support)
flyinmiata.com
flyinprotege.com
=09
-----Original Message-----
From: Chad J. Douglas [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 1:12 PM
To: Larry Alster; Bill Cardell; (email redacted)
Subject: RE: More about bore measure
=09
=09
OK - That TOTALLY went over my head.
=09
YBSMV?
=09
Your Bull Shit May Vary?
=09
Your Big Siamese Might Vomit?
=09
??
=09
I don't know That one.....YBSMV?
=09
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Alster [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Mon 3/10/2003 3:03 PM
To: Bill Cardell; (email redacted)
Cc:
Subject: Re: More about bore measure
=09=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
=09=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
=09
YBSMV
>
> Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad)
> (email redacted)
> Flyin' Miata
> 1-800-359-6957 (sales only)
> 970-242-3800 (tech support)
> flyinmiata.com
> flyinprotege.com
=09=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
=09=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
Bill, I like it. When was the last time someone told you your
seriously
warped?? :) Wait, would that have been Teri, this morning. :)
=09=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
Larry Alster
=09=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
1991 "White Knight" CSP #99
1992 "Silver Bullet" EM #17 BEGI System 4.2+
1992 "Honey Bee"
=09=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
=09=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
=09=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
=09=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
=09=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
=09

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)

Why not take the block to a auto machine shop that specializes in just such
work? If it needs bored, and you use them, they probably won't even charge
for the measuring. It all is OK as-is you pay a small fee and rest
comfortably knowing all is well.

Or, why not just overbore it and forget measuring it altogether...and put in
a stroker crank while you're at it...

Jim in Tucson


>
> I beasured the actual bore.
>
> The hone marks are kinda hard to see, but they are there, and they are
> present all the way around and all the way down all 4 cylinders.
>
> Any idea what I'lll have to pay for a mic? Any idea where I can get one
> that is good enough for the job, but inexpensive?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chad
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Chad J. Douglas" <(email redacted)>

Stroker crank would be nice.=20
=20
However, If I had that kind of money, I certainly wouldn't be dickering ove=
r the price of getting a block measured.....
=20
Chad

-----Original Message-----
From: (email redacted) [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 7:13 PM
To: Chad J. Douglas; (email redacted); (email redacted)
Subject: Re: More about bore measure


Why not take the block to a auto machine shop that specializes in just such=
work? If it needs bored, and you use them, they probably won't even charge=
for the measuring. It all is OK as-is you pay a small fee and rest comfort=
ably knowing all is well.

Or, why not just overbore it and forget measuring it altogether...and put i=
n a stroker crank while you're at it...

Jim in Tucson





I beasured the actual bore.

The hone marks are kinda hard to see, but they are there, and they are pres=
ent all the way around and all the way down all 4 cylinders.

Any idea what I'lll have to pay for a mic? Any idea where I can get one th=
at is good enough for the job, but inexpensive?

Thanks,

Chad

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Robert Mangas" <(email redacted)>



well, I liked the big siamese version. He might, too.




>From: "Chad J. Douglas" <(email redacted)>
>To: "Bill Cardell" <(email redacted)>,"Larry Alster"
><(email redacted)>,"Bill Cardell" <(email redacted)>,
><(email redacted)>
>Subject: RE: More about bore measure
>Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 15:21:15 -0500
>
>(puts on the dunce cap and slinks over into the corner)
>
>Nevermind.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Cardell [mailto:(email redacted)]
> Sent: Mon 3/10/2003 3:15 PM
> To: Chad J. Douglas; Larry Alster; Bill Cardell; (email redacted)
> Cc:
> Subject: RE: More about bore measure
>
>
>
> what were we talking about-BORE SIZE
>
> Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad)
> (email redacted)
> Flyin' Miata
> 1-800-359-6957 (sales only)
> 970-242-3800 (tech support)
> flyinmiata.com
> flyinprotege.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chad J. Douglas [mailto:(email redacted)]
> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 1:12 PM
> To: Larry Alster; Bill Cardell; (email redacted)
> Subject: RE: More about bore measure
>
>
> OK - That TOTALLY went over my head.
>
> YBSMV?
>
> Your Bull Shit May Vary?
>
> Your Big Siamese Might Vomit?
>
> ??
>
> I don't know That one.....YBSMV?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Larry Alster [mailto:(email redacted)]
> Sent: Mon 3/10/2003 3:03 PM
> To: Bill Cardell; (email redacted)
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: More about bore measure
>
>
>
> YBSMV
> >
> > Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad)
> > (email redacted)
> > Flyin' Miata
> > 1-800-359-6957 (sales only)
> > 970-242-3800 (tech support)
> > flyinmiata.com
> > flyinprotege.com
>
>
> Bill, I like it. When was the last time someone told you your
> seriously
> warped?? :) Wait, would that have been Teri, this morning. :)
>
> Larry Alster
>
> 1991 "White Knight" CSP #99
> 1992 "Silver Bullet" EM #17 BEGI System 4.2+
> 1992 "Honey Bee"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


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