Miatapower List Archive

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Mail From: "Jerry Malsam" <(email redacted)>

I've only used Miata Link Lab for a week or so and I'm already hooked; =
yesterday's update is even better. My mind races to think of other =
things this already excellent program could do. I'm posting here rather =
than just directly to Glenn so we can hopefully get some discussion =
going regarding what you all think would be worthy/useful enhancements =
and what would not:

1. Plotting log data vs. time domain (seconds) rather than "sample =
number" would be so much more meaningful in real-world terms. (Maybe =
have a toggle for those that prefer sample number.) A person could then =
use MLL to log and compare auto-cross runs, etc., kinda like an =
inexpensive G-Cube or GTechPro alternative. The current Speed Graph is =
great, but it's only useful for short "power runs", unless I'm missing =
something. Plus, having a standard X-axis baseline would facilitate =
other uses, such as combining engine data with G-Cube data on one graph =
(even just manually in a separate spreadsheet) and some other ideas =
mentioned below. Seems simple, but this one change would be really add a =
lot of value.
2. Display log benchmark data on all log plots, not just Power and Speed =
Graphs. Maybe "ghost" the benchmark data. Just another way to compare =
what the engine *was* doing to what it's doing now.
3. Even though the new FM Link chip will be reading Intake Air Temp =
rather than Speed, it's very handy to know speed. Apparently, you can =
calculate it based on other data, because you're doing it in the Speed =
Plot, even when only Air Temp is being logged. (How are you doing this, =
Glenn? Just RPM * driveline ratio?) Please oh please keep the Speed =
checkbox alive. Certainly Air Temp is nice for tuning, but it's all =
about Speed!! (The first suggestion will help facilitate this, as you =
won't need to back-calculate Sample Number to plot this.) This is almost =
important for me to avoid the new ECU software to keep the Speed plot. =
I'll run a separate wire if I have to -- are we just all out of inputs =
on the Link? Anyhow, combine this with the first suggestion and you =
eliminate the need for a separate Speed Graph. Simpler is better!
5. Data Max/Min button -- click to jump to max/min data point on =
selected plot. Might be nice to see an average too.
6. Option to "export" data to spreadsheet/Excel/CSV file for more =
detailed analysis. You'd really just be rearranging the data file a bit.
7. More graphing options, different units/scale options, etc. -- e.g., =
plot MAP in psi rather than KPa. Might have need a second scale on the =
right side of the graph and/or color coded scales to make this more =
useful. A different ActiveX graphing control might provide all this =
easily.
8. Help idiot-proof the ECU settings wherever possible. There's a lot of =
stuff there, and even an experienced tuner (not me!) could overlook a =
crucial setting or two. Seems like some default (adjustable and =
overridable) limits would help with this, although the zone benchmarks =
already address this to some degree. Note that I haven't tried uploading =
any ECU settings, so this might already be well in hand.
9. Real-time graphing would be useful for a number of reasons. (I know =
this has come up before, but bear with me.) Now of course you don't want =
to be tuning while driving around town, but I can imagine using an old =
laptop or old WinCE device (with re-compiled source, dunno how =
straightforward that is) as a vary handy auxiliary display. (Right now =
there are other options, Analink, etc.) It would be handy for =
diagnostics, e.g. referring to MAP plot while checking for vacuum leaks. =
It would be handy for tuning idle. It would let you automate the Power =
Graph logging: hit a button, and it logs until you hit redline or some =
rpm preset, thus allowing for hands-free operation -- would be safer and =
more repeatable. (Heck, you could even leave a small PC running MLL =
on-board trigger external events based on engine data. Use your =
imagination; think like a hacker!!) Bottom line is it would give the =
program a whole new world of capabilities. Come on, doesn't this sound =
nice?? Big problem is that this would require integrating the serial =
port data collection into MLL, which surely is a BIG headache for Glenn, =
although I'll check around for an ActiveX serial port I/O control that =
may help simplify this. You'd probably want to have an option to use =
different types of "gauges" (round gauges, bar graphs, etc.) rather than =
strip-chart style, etc. Never said it would be easy, just useful. =
Probably best to save this for later (v3.0?) after you've taken the =
pre-logging approach as far as it can go. You'll notice this suggestion =
is LAST...

Hope that wasn't too much all at once. I know most of you folks see =
Miata Link Lab as primarily a tuning tool, but it seems like there's so =
much more you can do with that data. Maybe I'm just getting too happy =
with it. Anyhow, I'm a decent VB programmer and would be happy to help =
on some of these items, or even just help track down some cool ActiveX =
controls.=20

--Jerry
(email redacted)

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)


You have some excelent ideas I think. One question that popped into my mind
when doing logging, is whether or not MLL is capable of tracking speed when
changing gears. IE, when you do a speed graph, you must input gear so it knows
how to compute, but is it possible to do a standing start 0-60 or 0-100 and
have it compute speed through all the gears? I have not tired it, but I think
that would be really cool...ie free drag times :)

Nate
evergo.net

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Ray Ayala" <(email redacted)>


As is you already get the total elapsed time and the speed in the last gear.
Do you really need speed in the lower gears?

----- Original Message -----
From: <(email redacted)>
To: "Jerry Malsam" <(email redacted)>; "Miata Power"
<(email redacted)>; "Glenn Johnson" <(email redacted)>
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: MLL suggestions (NPC) long!


>
> You have some excelent ideas I think. One question that popped into my
mind
> when doing logging, is whether or not MLL is capable of tracking speed
when
> changing gears. IE, when you do a speed graph, you must input gear so it
knows
> how to compute, but is it possible to do a standing start 0-60 or 0-100
and
> have it compute speed through all the gears? I have not tired it, but I
think
> that would be really cool...ie free drag times :)
>
> Nate
> evergo.net
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Jerry Malsam" <(email redacted)>


You're thinking 0-60mph, quarter-mile, etc. drag race type of logging. I'm
thinking auto-cross. Why was that last run 2 seconds aster than the first?
Ooohhh, MLL is showing me I carried way more speed in the second half of the
course. Make sense?

Trouble is, you're going to be losing the Speed input, right? So it's going
to be guess-work based on RPM * final drive * gear from here on out. Gotta
figure out how to determine gear (guess? ask user? invent nifty algorithm?)
without a Speed input.

--Jerry

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray Ayala" <(email redacted)>
To: "Miata Power" <(email redacted)>
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: MLL suggestions (NPC) long!


>
> As is you already get the total elapsed time and the speed in the last
gear.
> Do you really need speed in the lower gears?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <(email redacted)>
> To: "Jerry Malsam" <(email redacted)>; "Miata Power"
> <(email redacted)>; "Glenn Johnson" <(email redacted)>
> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10:02 AM
> Subject: Re: MLL suggestions (NPC) long!
>
>
> >
> > You have some excelent ideas I think. One question that popped into my
> mind
> > when doing logging, is whether or not MLL is capable of tracking speed
> when
> > changing gears. IE, when you do a speed graph, you must input gear so
it
> knows
> > how to compute, but is it possible to do a standing start 0-60 or 0-100
> and
> > have it compute speed through all the gears? I have not tired it, but I
> think
> > that would be really cool...ie free drag times :)
> >
> > Nate
> > evergo.net
> >
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)


Not really I guess. So it's possible to do what I am asking (ie time 0-60, 0-100
etc)?

Nate

>
>As is you already get the total elapsed time and the speed in the last gear.

>Do you really need speed in the lower gears?
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <(email redacted)>
>To: "Jerry Malsam" <(email redacted)>; "Miata Power"
><(email redacted)>; "Glenn Johnson" <(email redacted)>
>Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10:02 AM
>Subject: Re: MLL suggestions (NPC) long!
>
>
>>
>> You have some excelent ideas I think. One question that popped into my
>mind
>> when doing logging, is whether or not MLL is capable of tracking speed
>when
>> changing gears. IE, when you do a speed graph, you must input gear so it

>knows
>> how to compute, but is it possible to do a standing start 0-60 or 0-100
>and
>> have it compute speed through all the gears? I have not tired it, but I

>think
>> that would be really cool...ie free drag times :)
>>
>> Nate
>> evergo.net
>>
>
>
evergo.net

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Glenn Johnson" <(email redacted)>


I think this will work.

If you create a (useless) power graph covering your progress from stationary
through the gears, setting the gear field to the final gear you're
interested in, e.g. 2nd/3rd for 0-60, 4th for 0-100, the speed graph will
look a bit cranky through the early gears, but the time reading across the
bottom will be OK, as that's just counting the samples, and the final peak
of speed will have been calculated correctly from your gear ratios, etc.

The acceleration query won't work though.

Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: (email redacted)
[mailto:(email redacted)]On Behalf Of (email redacted)
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 7:05 PM
To: Ray Ayala; Miata Power
Subject: Re: MLL suggestions (NPC) long!



Not really I guess. So it's possible to do what I am asking (ie time 0-60,
0-100
etc)?

Nate

>
>As is you already get the total elapsed time and the speed in the last
gear.

>Do you really need speed in the lower gears?
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <(email redacted)>
>To: "Jerry Malsam" <(email redacted)>; "Miata Power"
><(email redacted)>; "Glenn Johnson" <(email redacted)>
>Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10:02 AM
>Subject: Re: MLL suggestions (NPC) long!
>
>
>>
>> You have some excelent ideas I think. One question that popped into my
>mind
>> when doing logging, is whether or not MLL is capable of tracking speed
>when
>> changing gears. IE, when you do a speed graph, you must input gear so it

>knows
>> how to compute, but is it possible to do a standing start 0-60 or 0-100
>and
>> have it compute speed through all the gears? I have not tired it, but I

>think
>> that would be really cool...ie free drag times :)
>>
>> Nate
>> evergo.net
>>
>
>
evergo.net

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Jerry Malsam" <(email redacted)>

Well, I datalogged all my runs at an autocross this weekend, and my
conclusion is that I need to focus more on my driving and less on data
collection. Oh well, seemed like a cool idea, just too much distraction =
while=20
waiting my turn when I should be concentrating on visualizing the =
course.
Maybe I'll get a G-Cube someday.

Here are the runs just for grins. Seemed like a fast course, but I only
ever got up to 45mph:
jerry.malsam.com/miata/a1.gif
jerry.malsam.com/miata/a2.gif
jerry.malsam.com/miata/a3.gif
jerry.malsam.com/miata/a4.gif

--Jerry

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Malsam" <(email redacted)>
To: "Ray Ayala" <(email redacted)>; "Miata Power" =
<(email redacted)>
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: MLL suggestions (NPC) long!


>
> You're thinking 0-60mph, quarter-mile, etc. drag race type of logging. =
I'm
> thinking auto-cross. Why was that last run 2 seconds aster than the =
first?
> Ooohhh, MLL is showing me I carried way more speed in the second half =
of
the
> course. Make sense?
>
> Trouble is, you're going to be losing the Speed input, right? So it's
going
> to be guess-work based on RPM * final drive * gear from here on out. =
Gotta
> figure out how to determine gear (guess? ask user? invent nifty
algorithm?)
> without a Speed input.
>
> --Jerry