Miatapower List Archive

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Gary Morrison" <(email redacted)>


Yeah, I didn't want to get into this either. I've read the explanation a few
times, and I find it a little hard to grasp.

Gary

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Montebello" <(email redacted)>
To: "Gary Morrison" <(email redacted)>
Cc: "Ray Ayala" <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: Looks like the Autorotor may be coming back



I should point out that since the Millenia uses the Miller cycle, the
10:1 compression is not directly comparable with non-Miller'd engines.

Don't ask me to explain it. Every time I do my head hurts. The Miller
cycle is black magic. It does alter the _effective_ compression ratio,
though.

james montebello


On Fri, 6 Oct 2000, Gary Morrison wrote:

>
> Ray,
>
> I have one of these as my other car... I've just looked at both owners
> manual and sales brochure, no details of boost, engine is 2.3litre V6 with
> the Lysholm compressor located between the cylinder V. Compression ratio
> specified as 10:1. 149kW @ 5,500RPM, 282 Nm @ 4000RPM.

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Beau Randall <(email redacted)>



For those who haven't looked, it notes maximum pressure is 150 kpa. - Beau

--- Haroon Rafique <(email redacted)> wrote:
>
> My head would hurt too, if I had to explain the Miller cycle. However, here
> is a link from Mazda Australia...
> mazda.com.au/corpora/209.html
> notice the part about
> "the compression ratio is "artificially" reduced down to 8:1"
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Montebello" <(email redacted)>
> To: "Gary Morrison" <(email redacted)>
> Cc: "Ray Ayala" <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
> Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 6:54 PM
> Subject: Re: Looks like the Autorotor may be coming back
>
>
> >
> >
> > I should point out that since the Millenia uses the Miller cycle, the
> > 10:1 compression is not directly comparable with non-Miller'd engines.
> >
> > Don't ask me to explain it. Every time I do my head hurts. The Miller
> > cycle is black magic. It does alter the _effective_ compression ratio,
> > though.
> >
> > james montebello
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 6 Oct 2000, Gary Morrison wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Ray,
> > >
> > > I have one of these as my other car... I've just looked at both owners
> > > manual and sales brochure, no details of boost, engine is 2.3litre V6
> with
> > > the Lysholm compressor located between the cylinder V. Compression ratio
> > > specified as 10:1. 149kW @ 5,500RPM, 282 Nm @ 4000RPM.
> >
>


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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Ray Ayala <(email redacted)>


Once you digest all the technical gobbledygook, what's left is nothing
more than holding the intake valves open during the first part of the
compression stroke. After the intake valve closes you effectively have
a short compression stroke but the power stroke is still full length.
Since part of the intake charge gets blown back out of the intake valve
during the first part of the compression stroke, the effective CR is
lower too. It could be a good application for turbo-boost-variable
intake cam timing ... allowing 9.5-10:1 NA compression at lower RPM and
8:1 compression when the boost comes up.

Gary Morrison wrote:
>
> Aha, this is what I read some time ago, but I had lost the link. Thankyou...
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Haroon Rafique" <(email redacted)>
> To: <(email redacted)>
> Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 12:28 PM
> Subject: Re: Looks like the Autorotor may be coming back
>
> My head would hurt too, if I had to explain the Miller cycle. However, here
> is a link from Mazda Australia...
> mazda.com.au/corpora/209.html
> notice the part about
> "the compression ratio is "artificially" reduced down to 8:1"
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Montebello" <(email redacted)>
> To: "Gary Morrison" <(email redacted)>
> Cc: "Ray Ayala" <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
> Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 6:54 PM
> Subject: Re: Looks like the Autorotor may be coming back
>
> >
> >
> > I should point out that since the Millenia uses the Miller cycle, the
> > 10:1 compression is not directly comparable with non-Miller'd engines.
> >
> > Don't ask me to explain it. Every time I do my head hurts. The Miller
> > cycle is black magic. It does alter the _effective_ compression ratio,
> > though.
> >
> > james montebello
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 6 Oct 2000, Gary Morrison wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Ray,
> > >
> > > I have one of these as my other car... I've just looked at both owners
> > > manual and sales brochure, no details of boost, engine is 2.3litre V6
> with
> > > the Lysholm compressor located between the cylinder V. Compression ratio
> > > specified as 10:1. 149kW @ 5,500RPM, 282 Nm @ 4000RPM.
> >

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: James Montebello <(email redacted)>



I've never had much trouble figuring out the mechanical details of its
operation, I just can't understand why it's USEFUL. A variable system
I can grok (and I think the new SAAB system is a great way to achieve
a variable CR), but I just don't understand the point of the Miller
cycle itself. I suppose the secret is hidden in the line oft repeated
by some that it's the _expansion_ ratio that's important, not the
compression ratio, but since in non-Miller engines they're the same
thing, that point is usually lost. However, since the average cylinder
pressure is (I think) the really important variable, and the starting
pressure is lower in a Miller engine than it would be otherwise...

My head hurts!

james montebello

On Thu, 5 Oct 2000, Ray Ayala wrote:

>
> Once you digest all the technical gobbledygook, what's left is nothing
> more than holding the intake valves open during the first part of the
> compression stroke. After the intake valve closes you effectively have
> a short compression stroke but the power stroke is still full length.
> Since part of the intake charge gets blown back out of the intake valve
> during the first part of the compression stroke, the effective CR is
> lower too. It could be a good application for turbo-boost-variable
> intake cam timing ... allowing 9.5-10:1 NA compression at lower RPM and
> 8:1 compression when the boost comes up.
>
> Gary Morrison wrote:
> >
> > Aha, this is what I read some time ago, but I had lost the link. Thankyou...
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Haroon Rafique" <(email redacted)>
> > To: <(email redacted)>
> > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 12:28 PM
> > Subject: Re: Looks like the Autorotor may be coming back
> >
> > My head would hurt too, if I had to explain the Miller cycle. However, here
> > is a link from Mazda Australia...
> > mazda.com.au/corpora/209.html
> > notice the part about
> > "the compression ratio is "artificially" reduced down to 8:1"
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "James Montebello" <(email redacted)>
> > To: "Gary Morrison" <(email redacted)>
> > Cc: "Ray Ayala" <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
> > Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 6:54 PM
> > Subject: Re: Looks like the Autorotor may be coming back
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > I should point out that since the Millenia uses the Miller cycle, the
> > > 10:1 compression is not directly comparable with non-Miller'd engines.
> > >
> > > Don't ask me to explain it. Every time I do my head hurts. The Miller
> > > cycle is black magic. It does alter the _effective_ compression ratio,
> > > though.
> > >
> > > james montebello
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, 6 Oct 2000, Gary Morrison wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Ray,
> > > >
> > > > I have one of these as my other car... I've just looked at both owners
> > > > manual and sales brochure, no details of boost, engine is 2.3litre V6
> > with
> > > > the Lysholm compressor located between the cylinder V. Compression ratio
> > > > specified as 10:1. 149kW @ 5,500RPM, 282 Nm @ 4000RPM.
> > >
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Ray Ayala" <(email redacted)>


The only additional usefulness I know of for the Miller cycle engine is that
it's fuel consumption and emissions output are lower at low power levels
than they are for a larger Otto cycle engine with comparable peak power.

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Montebello" <(email redacted)>
> I've never had much trouble figuring out the mechanical details of its
> operation, I just can't understand why it's USEFUL. A variable system
> I can grok (and I think the new SAAB system is a great way to achieve
> a variable CR), but I just don't understand the point of the Miller
> cycle itself. I suppose the secret is hidden in the line oft repeated
> by some that it's the _expansion_ ratio that's important, not the
> compression ratio, but since in non-Miller engines they're the same
> thing, that point is usually lost. However, since the average cylinder
> pressure is (I think) the really important variable, and the starting
> pressure is lower in a Miller engine than it would be otherwise...

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)


In a message dated 10/4/00 9:40:37 PM Central Daylight Time,
(email redacted) writes:

<<
So, for those of us who don't know the history, why did the Autorotor ever
go away? Lack of interest?
>>

Gentlemen,
It was a toughie to decide to scrap it.

Reasons were: vibrations, cracks in the 1.8 head, noise, expensive to
build, tough to install, hard to tune, poor economy, lousy belt life, poor
tensioner/idler life, cooks the throttle body, and then a bunch of details.

Almost all of the above could be cured by a more astute designer. Clearly,
putting a blower on top of the exhaust manifold was one of my dumber stunts.
With respect to heat and blower (compressor) life, the SC must go on the
intake side. While this looks formidable, it would actually add very little
complexity and certainly prove to be the right layout. I'd guess at about a 2
hour handicap on install. The closer the SC is to the CG of the engine, the
less the vibs, mounts could be on the iron block for strength, thicker
castings would shut the the thing up a bit, IC routing would improve,
throttled volume would be much less.

If the designer could do this well, especially with the FM computer, the
thing could approach 95% of a a real turbo. I'll concede that it would have
a couple areas of superiority.

Corky

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)





Is there enough room on top of the engine - where the Saleen/Eaton unit sits for
the Mustangs ( saleen.com/store2000/details.asp?prodid=178-362 )?

Requires a new top - but also allows for the dreaded air to liquid intercooler
: )






(email redacted) on 10/06/2000 08:07:47 AM

Please respond to (email redacted)

To: (email redacted), (email redacted)
cc: (email redacted), (email redacted), (email redacted) (bcc:
Dan W Thorpe/WLGORE)
Subject: Re: Looks like the Autorotor may be coming back




In a message dated 10/4/00 9:40:37 PM Central Daylight Time,
(email redacted) writes:

<<
So, for those of us who don't know the history, why did the Autorotor ever
go away? Lack of interest?
>>

Gentlemen,
It was a toughie to decide to scrap it.

Reasons were: vibrations, cracks in the 1.8 head, noise, expensive to
build, tough to install, hard to tune, poor economy, lousy belt life, poor
tensioner/idler life, cooks the throttle body, and then a bunch of details.

Almost all of the above could be cured by a more astute designer. Clearly,
putting a blower on top of the exhaust manifold was one of my dumber stunts.
With respect to heat and blower (compressor) life, the SC must go on the
intake side. While this looks formidable, it would actually add very little
complexity and certainly prove to be the right layout. I'd guess at about a 2
hour handicap on install. The closer the SC is to the CG of the engine, the
less the vibs, mounts could be on the iron block for strength, thicker
castings would shut the the thing up a bit, IC routing would improve,
throttled volume would be much less.

If the designer could do this well, especially with the FM computer, the
thing could approach 95% of a a real turbo. I'll concede that it would have
a couple areas of superiority.

Corky

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)





I would think you could design a casting Corky - plus you have connections with
the foundry. I would put this project "above the line" - now that you are not
supporting Aerodynes.

>From all I have heard - the autorotor could be one heck of set up, if the system
is designed correctly.




(email redacted) on 10/06/2000 09:32:51 AM

To: Dan W Thorpe/WLGORE@WLGORE
cc:
Subject: Re: Looks like the Autorotor may be coming back



In a message dated 10/6/00 7:23:02 AM Central Daylight Time,
(email redacted) writes:

<<
Is there enough room on top of the engine - where the Saleen/Eaton unit sits
for
the Mustangs ( saleen.com/store2000/details.asp?prodid=178-362 )?
>>

It would require a new intake manifold. That would allow the SC to get real
close to the engine's CG.

Would be fun to design.
CB

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Beau Randall <(email redacted)>



Corky,

How feasible would it be to create an intake manifold mounted blower
with cooling channels run through the manifold utilizing a water/air
ic? Would it be possible to make it efficient up to 300 hp or perhaps
beyond? - Beau

--- (email redacted) wrote:
>
> In a message dated 10/4/00 9:40:37 PM Central Daylight Time,
> (email redacted) writes:
>
> <<
> So, for those of us who don't know the history, why did the Autorotor ever
> go away? Lack of interest?
> >>
>
> Gentlemen,
> It was a toughie to decide to scrap it.
>
> Reasons were: vibrations, cracks in the 1.8 head, noise, expensive to
> build, tough to install, hard to tune, poor economy, lousy belt life, poor
> tensioner/idler life, cooks the throttle body, and then a bunch of details.
>
> Almost all of the above could be cured by a more astute designer. Clearly,
> putting a blower on top of the exhaust manifold was one of my dumber stunts.
> With respect to heat and blower (compressor) life, the SC must go on the
> intake side. While this looks formidable, it would actually add very little
> complexity and certainly prove to be the right layout. I'd guess at about a 2
> hour handicap on install. The closer the SC is to the CG of the engine, the
> less the vibs, mounts could be on the iron block for strength, thicker
> castings would shut the the thing up a bit, IC routing would improve,
> throttled volume would be much less.
>
> If the designer could do this well, especially with the FM computer, the
> thing could approach 95% of a a real turbo. I'll concede that it would have
> a couple areas of superiority.
>
> Corky


__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
photos.yahoo.com/

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Nathan Ramsey (Volt Computer)" <(email redacted)>


I think if someone could swallow the cost for such a big development it
would be a REALLY cool package. My roommate has a SC Civic and the blower
is mounted right on the intake manifold...looks like it would be a really
efficient design and would eliminate about 3 feet of intake on the Miata
applications.

Nate
'91 silver
12 PSI Greddy turbo w/ FM ECU

albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=814513&Auth=false

-----Original Message-----
From: Beau Randall [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 10:06 AM
To: (email redacted)
Cc: (email redacted); (email redacted); (email redacted)
Subject: Re: Looks like the Autorotor may be coming back




Corky,

How feasible would it be to create an intake manifold mounted blower
with cooling channels run through the manifold utilizing a water/air
ic? Would it be possible to make it efficient up to 300 hp or perhaps
beyond? - Beau

--- (email redacted) wrote:
>
> In a message dated 10/4/00 9:40:37 PM Central Daylight Time,
> (email redacted) writes:
>
> <<
> So, for those of us who don't know the history, why did the Autorotor
ever
> go away? Lack of interest?
> >>
>
> Gentlemen,
> It was a toughie to decide to scrap it.
>
> Reasons were: vibrations, cracks in the 1.8 head, noise, expensive to
> build, tough to install, hard to tune, poor economy, lousy belt life, poor

> tensioner/idler life, cooks the throttle body, and then a bunch of
details.
>
> Almost all of the above could be cured by a more astute designer.
Clearly,
> putting a blower on top of the exhaust manifold was one of my dumber
stunts.
> With respect to heat and blower (compressor) life, the SC must go on the
> intake side. While this looks formidable, it would actually add very
little
> complexity and certainly prove to be the right layout. I'd guess at about
a 2
> hour handicap on install. The closer the SC is to the CG of the engine,
the
> less the vibs, mounts could be on the iron block for strength, thicker
> castings would shut the the thing up a bit, IC routing would improve,
> throttled volume would be much less.
>
> If the designer could do this well, especially with the FM computer, the
> thing could approach 95% of a a real turbo. I'll concede that it would
have
> a couple areas of superiority.
>
> Corky


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
photos.yahoo.com/

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)


Actually that is an Application that screams out for a Liquid cooled or even
better freon cooled intercooler... Instead of using your AC as cooling for
you, it would be far better cooling the intake charge... ;)

Mark

>
>
> I think if someone could swallow the cost for such a big development it
> would be a REALLY cool package. My roommate has a SC Civic and the blower
> is mounted right on the intake manifold...looks like it would be a really
> efficient design and would eliminate about 3 feet of intake on the Miata
> applications.
>
> Nate
> '91 silver
> 12 PSI Greddy turbo w/ FM ECU
>
> albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=814513&Auth=false
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Beau Randall [mailto:(email redacted)]
> Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 10:06 AM
> To: (email redacted)
> Cc: (email redacted); (email redacted); (email redacted)
> Subject: Re: Looks like the Autorotor may be coming back
>
>
>
>
> Corky,
>
> How feasible would it be to create an intake manifold mounted blower
> with cooling channels run through the manifold utilizing a water/air
> ic? Would it be possible to make it efficient up to 300 hp or perhaps
> beyond? - Beau
>
> --- (email redacted) wrote:
> >
> > In a message dated 10/4/00 9:40:37 PM Central Daylight Time,
> > (email redacted) writes:
> >
> > <<
> > So, for those of us who don't know the history, why did the Autorotor
> ever
> > go away? Lack of interest?
> > >>
> >
> > Gentlemen,
> > It was a toughie to decide to scrap it.
> >
> > Reasons were: vibrations, cracks in the 1.8 head, noise, expensive to
> > build, tough to install, hard to tune, poor economy, lousy belt life, poor
>
> > tensioner/idler life, cooks the throttle body, and then a bunch of
> details.
> >
> > Almost all of the above could be cured by a more astute designer.
> Clearly,
> > putting a blower on top of the exhaust manifold was one of my dumber
> stunts.
> > With respect to heat and blower (compressor) life, the SC must go on the
> > intake side. While this looks formidable, it would actually add very
> little
> > complexity and certainly prove to be the right layout. I'd guess at about
> a 2
> > hour handicap on install. The closer the SC is to the CG of the engine,
> the
> > less the vibs, mounts could be on the iron block for strength, thicker
> > castings would shut the the thing up a bit, IC routing would improve,
> > throttled volume would be much less.
> >
> > If the designer could do this well, especially with the FM computer, the
> > thing could approach 95% of a a real turbo. I'll concede that it would
> have
> > a couple areas of superiority.
> >
> > Corky
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
> photos.yahoo.com/
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Ray Ayala" <(email redacted)>


I just a note that AMG's new C32 is sporting a 16 psi IHI Autorotor. That's
the biggest belt-drive compressor I've ever heard of on a production car.
No discussion of the intercooling used though.

----- Original Message -----
From: <(email redacted)>


>
> Actually that is an Application that screams out for a Liquid cooled or
even
> better freon cooled intercooler... Instead of using your AC as cooling for
> you, it would be far better cooling the intake charge... ;)
>
> Mark
>
> >
> >
> > I think if someone could swallow the cost for such a big development it
> > would be a REALLY cool package. My roommate has a SC Civic and the
blower
> > is mounted right on the intake manifold...looks like it would be a
really
> > efficient design and would eliminate about 3 feet of intake on the Miata
> > applications.
> >
> > Nate
> > '91 silver
> > 12 PSI Greddy turbo w/ FM ECU
> >
> > albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=814513&Auth=false
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Beau Randall [mailto:(email redacted)]
> > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 10:06 AM
> > To: (email redacted)
> > Cc: (email redacted); (email redacted); (email redacted)
> > Subject: Re: Looks like the Autorotor may be coming back
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Corky,
> >
> > How feasible would it be to create an intake manifold mounted blower
> > with cooling channels run through the manifold utilizing a water/air
> > ic? Would it be possible to make it efficient up to 300 hp or perhaps
> > beyond? - Beau
> >
> > --- (email redacted) wrote:
> > >
> > > In a message dated 10/4/00 9:40:37 PM Central Daylight Time,
> > > (email redacted) writes:
> > >
> > > <<
> > > So, for those of us who don't know the history, why did the Autorotor
> > ever
> > > go away? Lack of interest?
> > > >>
> > >
> > > Gentlemen,
> > > It was a toughie to decide to scrap it.
> > >
> > > Reasons were: vibrations, cracks in the 1.8 head, noise, expensive
to
> > > build, tough to install, hard to tune, poor economy, lousy belt life,
poor
> >
> > > tensioner/idler life, cooks the throttle body, and then a bunch of
> > details.
> > >
> > > Almost all of the above could be cured by a more astute designer.
> > Clearly,
> > > putting a blower on top of the exhaust manifold was one of my dumber
> > stunts.
> > > With respect to heat and blower (compressor) life, the SC must go on
the
> > > intake side. While this looks formidable, it would actually add very
> > little
> > > complexity and certainly prove to be the right layout. I'd guess at
about
> > a 2
> > > hour handicap on install. The closer the SC is to the CG of the
engine,
> > the
> > > less the vibs, mounts could be on the iron block for strength, thicker
> > > castings would shut the the thing up a bit, IC routing would improve,
> > > throttled volume would be much less.
> > >
> > > If the designer could do this well, especially with the FM computer,
the
> > > thing could approach 95% of a a real turbo. I'll concede that it
would
> > have
> > > a couple areas of superiority.
> > >
> > > Corky
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
> > photos.yahoo.com/
> >
>
>

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Mail From: "js kavanagh" <(email redacted)>


Garrett water/air i/c mounted beneath the blower.

JK

>I just a note that AMG's new C32 is sporting a 16 psi IHI Autorotor. >
>That's the biggest belt-drive compressor I've ever heard of on a
> >production car. No discussion of the intercooling used though.
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Mail From: "Ralph Alder" <(email redacted)>


I suspect that an AMG 16psi Autorotor would be much like what I read
somewhere about a Boxter turbo installation. The installation included new
crank, rods and pistons. Probably some other bits...besides the turbo and
its related parts. Price was somewhere around the cost of a nice used
Miata. I'd guess that the Merc would get similar "improvements" and would
likely cost about that of a new, tricked out Miata.

People opting for that are in a different world than most of us
here...speaking for myself, anyway. The I/C must be very interesting
indeed.

Ralph Alder
Tustin, CA
'90 Classic Red w/Yellow Stripes
Team Aerocharger

-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Ayala <(email redacted)>
Cc: (email redacted) <(email redacted)>
Date: Friday, October 06, 2000 11:12
Subject: Re: Looks like the Autorotor may be coming back


>
>I just a note that AMG's new C32 is sporting a 16 psi IHI Autorotor.
That's
>the biggest belt-drive compressor I've ever heard of on a production car.
>No discussion of the intercooling used though.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <(email redacted)>
>
>
>>
>> Actually that is an Application that screams out for a Liquid cooled or
>even
>> better freon cooled intercooler... Instead of using your AC as cooling
for
>> you, it would be far better cooling the intake charge... ;)
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > I think if someone could swallow the cost for such a big development it
>> > would be a REALLY cool package. My roommate has a SC Civic and the
>blower
>> > is mounted right on the intake manifold...looks like it would be a
>really
>> > efficient design and would eliminate about 3 feet of intake on the
Miata
>> > applications.
>> >
>> > Nate
>> > '91 silver
>> > 12 PSI Greddy turbo w/ FM ECU
>> >
>> > albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=814513&Auth=false
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Beau Randall [mailto:(email redacted)]
>> > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 10:06 AM
>> > To: (email redacted)
>> > Cc: (email redacted); (email redacted); (email redacted)
>> > Subject: Re: Looks like the Autorotor may be coming back
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Corky,
>> >
>> > How feasible would it be to create an intake manifold mounted blower
>> > with cooling channels run through the manifold utilizing a water/air
>> > ic? Would it be possible to make it efficient up to 300 hp or perhaps
>> > beyond? - Beau
>> >
>> > --- (email redacted) wrote:
>> > >
>> > > In a message dated 10/4/00 9:40:37 PM Central Daylight Time,
>> > > (email redacted) writes:
>> > >
>> > > <<
>> > > So, for those of us who don't know the history, why did the
Autorotor
>> > ever
>> > > go away? Lack of interest?
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> > > Gentlemen,
>> > > It was a toughie to decide to scrap it.
>> > >
>> > > Reasons were: vibrations, cracks in the 1.8 head, noise, expensive
>to
>> > > build, tough to install, hard to tune, poor economy, lousy belt life,
>poor
>> >
>> > > tensioner/idler life, cooks the throttle body, and then a bunch of
>> > details.
>> > >
>> > > Almost all of the above could be cured by a more astute designer.
>> > Clearly,
>> > > putting a blower on top of the exhaust manifold was one of my dumber
>> > stunts.
>> > > With respect to heat and blower (compressor) life, the SC must go on
>the
>> > > intake side. While this looks formidable, it would actually add very
>> > little
>> > > complexity and certainly prove to be the right layout. I'd guess at
>about
>> > a 2
>> > > hour handicap on install. The closer the SC is to the CG of the
>engine,
>> > the
>> > > less the vibs, mounts could be on the iron block for strength,
thicker
>> > > castings would shut the the thing up a bit, IC routing would improve,
>> > > throttled volume would be much less.
>> > >
>> > > If the designer could do this well, especially with the FM computer,
>the
>> > > thing could approach 95% of a a real turbo. I'll concede that it
>would
>> > have
>> > > a couple areas of superiority.
>> > >
>> > > Corky
>> >
>> >
>> > __________________________________________________
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>> >
>>
>>
>
>