Miatapower List Archive

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Chris Robertson <(email redacted)>

Larry, you're way off. Tracking puts a lot more wear on cars than
daily driving. A set of pads may last one track event. But fine, I'll
play your way. A street 911 may need new shocks after 150K miles.
Change the oil yourself every 15,000 miles: filter $12, 9 quarts of
Mobil 1 $60. Brake pads every 25-30K $150 front pair. It's more than
a Miata. But it's no Lamboghini or Ferrari needing frequent
maintenance, rebuilds or insanely expensive parts. Take care of it
with plenty of "mechanical empathy" and it will last a long time with
infrequent needs. My point is that it's a helluva car for $40K. It
does everything well. I began to understand this about a year ago and
now I own one. I still love Miatas too.

--- Larry Alster <(email redacted)> wrote:

> Doesn't matter if your tracking it or not, you still buy shocks and
> brakes
> and do maintenance.
>
> I wasn't referring to tracking the car. The car is an expensive car
> to
> maintain.
>
>
> Larry
>
> White Knight 1991 Crystal White #99 CSP
> Silver Bullet 1992 Silverstone #17 EM FM I+ Turbo
> Honey B 1992 Sunburst Yellow J.R. M45
> Whooosh 2004 Titanium MazdaSpeed MX5
>
> LowCountry Miata lowcountrymiataclub.net
> Masters Miata
> RAGS 074
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Robertson" <(email redacted)>
> To: "Larry Alster" <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 8:51 PM
> Subject: Re: Life beyond Miata? New car options...
>
>
> > OK, but this isn't (or wasn't) a thread about track cars...that's a
> > whole different situation. A Porsche is a very expensive car to
> track,
> > whereas you can't get much cheaper than a Miata. Fun for dollar,
> the
> > Miata is impossible to top by any car except maybe a Formula Vee.
> >
> > --- Larry Alster <(email redacted)> wrote:
> >
> >> The point is not that the car is very unreliable but parts are so
> >> very
> >> expensive.
> >>
> >> The guys I track with tell me they pay more for 1 shock than we do
> >> for a
> >> complete set.
> >>
> >> Brakes are the same for the prices.
> >>
> >>
> >> Larry
> >>
> >> White Knight 1991 Crystal White #99 CSP
> >> Silver Bullet 1992 Silverstone #17 EM FM I+ Turbo
> >> Honey B 1992 Sunburst Yellow J.R. M45
> >> Whooosh 2004 Titanium MazdaSpeed MX5
> >>
> >> LowCountry Miata lowcountrymiataclub.net
> >> Masters Miata
> >> RAGS 074
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Chris Robertson" <(email redacted)>
> >> To: "Larry Alster" <(email redacted)>; "Mark Rivera"
> >> <(email redacted)>;
> >> <(email redacted)>
> >> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 8:31 PM
> >> Subject: Re: Life beyond Miata? New car options...
> >>
> >>
> >> > "Thousands of repairs every few months" is a ridiculous
> conjecture.
> >> As
> >> > mentioned before, the 99 and later 911s are reliable. Plus you
> >> don't
> >> > need to spend money modding it...it's really perfect as-is. 40+
> >> years
> >> > of evolution gives you a pretty refined product. Go drive one
> and
> >> open
> >> > your mind. :)
> >> >
> >> > --- Larry Alster <(email redacted)> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> All true but the point is still buying a 40k driver that needs
> >> >> thousands of
> >> >> repairs every few months could make a 40k garage queen.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Larry
> >> >>
> >> >> White Knight 1991 Crystal White #99 CSP
> >> >> Silver Bullet 1992 Silverstone #17 EM FM I+ Turbo
> >> >> Honey B 1992 Sunburst Yellow J.R. M45
> >> >> Whooosh 2004 Titanium MazdaSpeed MX5
> >> >>
> >> >> LowCountry Miata lowcountrymiataclub.net
> >> >> Masters Miata
> >> >> RAGS 074
> >> >>
> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> From: "Chris Robertson" <(email redacted)>
> >> >> To: "Larry Alster" <(email redacted)>; "Mark Rivera"
> >> >> <(email redacted)>;
> >> >> <(email redacted)>
> >> >> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:53 PM
> >> >> Subject: Re: Life beyond Miata? New car options...
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > It's a lot cheaper to repair a Miata too. Gonna pay big to
> fix
> >> an
> >> >> off
> >> >> > track excursion in a 911. But really, it's not fair to
> compare
> >> the
> >> >> > Miata to the 911. This thread was originally about finding a
> >> fun
> >> >> > sporty daily driver for $40K.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --- Larry Alster <(email redacted)> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> I was thinking the same thing about the 911. Quite a few of
> >> the
> >> >> >> Porsche
> >> >> >> people we drive with at the track are amazed at the cost to
> >> modify
> >> >> >> our cars.
> >> >> >> :) A few of them have added Miatas to their track stable
> just
> >> >> >> because they
> >> >> >> can get one cheap and upgrade it cheap and maintain it
> cheap.
> >> See
> >> >> a
> >> >> >> trend.
> >> >> >> :)
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Larry
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> White Knight 1991 Crystal White #99 CSP
> >> >> >> Silver Bullet 1992 Silverstone #17 EM FM I+ Turbo
> >> >> >> Honey B 1992 Sunburst Yellow J.R. M45
> >> >> >> Whooosh 2004 Titanium MazdaSpeed MX5
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> LowCountry Miata lowcountrymiataclub.net
> >> >> >> Masters Miata
> >> >> >> RAGS 074
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> >> From: "Mark Rivera" <(email redacted)>
> >> >> >> To: <(email redacted)>
> >> >> >> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 2:42 PM
> >> >> >> Subject: RE: Life beyond Miata? New car options...
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >I may not be qualified to respond here, having never driven
> >> one,
> >> >> but
> >> >> >> for
> >> >> >> > $40K, a used 911 isn't at the top of my list. That used
> to
> >> be
> >> >> my
> >> >> >> dream
> >> >> >> > car,
> >> >> >> > until I saw what you could get performance-wise for a
> >> fraction
> >> >> of
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> > price.
> >> >> >> > They don't have the best reputation for reliability and
> cost
> >> to
> >> >> >> maintain,
> >> >> >> > either. No offense to any 911 owners, I'm just not as
> >> excited
> >> >> >> about them
> >> >> >> > as
> >> >> >> > I once was.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > I really like the AWD sedan options out there these days
> in
> >> the
> >> >> EVO
> >> >> >> and
> >> >> >> > STi.
> >> >> >> > I'd love to have one, but can't justify it with my wife's
> >> old,
> >> >> >> reliable
> >> >> >> > (and
> >> >> >> > boring) Galant around that won't die.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > If you don't mind tinkering, you could find a 99-01'
> Impreza
> >> >> 2.5RS
> >> >> >> with
> >> >> >> > engine trouble and swap in the 2.0L from the WRX. Lots of
> >> >> >> potential
> >> >> >> > there,
> >> >> >> > IMO. Course those cars are rare enough without trying to
> >> find
> >> >> one
>
=== message truncated ===

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Larry Alster" <(email redacted)>

150k before it needs shocks????

I'm sorry I'd love to own a Porsche too but for reality purposes I just
can't see being able to keep up with the cost of the parts.


Larry

White Knight 1991 Crystal White #99 CSP
Silver Bullet 1992 Silverstone #17 EM FM I+ Turbo
Honey B 1992 Sunburst Yellow J.R. M45
Whooosh 2004 Titanium MazdaSpeed MX5

LowCountry Miata lowcountrymiataclub.net
Masters Miata
RAGS 074

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Robertson" <(email redacted)>
To: "Larry Alster" <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:15 PM
Subject: Re: Life beyond Miata? New car options...


> Larry, you're way off. Tracking puts a lot more wear on cars than
> daily driving. A set of pads may last one track event. But fine, I'll
> play your way. A street 911 may need new shocks after 150K miles.
> Change the oil yourself every 15,000 miles: filter $12, 9 quarts of
> Mobil 1 $60. Brake pads every 25-30K $150 front pair. It's more than
> a Miata. But it's no Lamboghini or Ferrari needing frequent
> maintenance, rebuilds or insanely expensive parts. Take care of it
> with plenty of "mechanical empathy" and it will last a long time with
> infrequent needs. My point is that it's a helluva car for $40K. It
> does everything well. I began to understand this about a year ago and
> now I own one. I still love Miatas too.
>
> --- Larry Alster <(email redacted)> wrote:
>
>> Doesn't matter if your tracking it or not, you still buy shocks and
>> brakes
>> and do maintenance.
>>
>> I wasn't referring to tracking the car. The car is an expensive car
>> to
>> maintain.
>>
>>
>> Larry
>>
>> White Knight 1991 Crystal White #99 CSP
>> Silver Bullet 1992 Silverstone #17 EM FM I+ Turbo
>> Honey B 1992 Sunburst Yellow J.R. M45
>> Whooosh 2004 Titanium MazdaSpeed MX5
>>
>> LowCountry Miata lowcountrymiataclub.net
>> Masters Miata
>> RAGS 074
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Chris Robertson" <(email redacted)>
>> To: "Larry Alster" <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
>> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 8:51 PM
>> Subject: Re: Life beyond Miata? New car options...
>>
>>
>> > OK, but this isn't (or wasn't) a thread about track cars...that's a
>> > whole different situation. A Porsche is a very expensive car to
>> track,
>> > whereas you can't get much cheaper than a Miata. Fun for dollar,
>> the
>> > Miata is impossible to top by any car except maybe a Formula Vee.
>> >
>> > --- Larry Alster <(email redacted)> wrote:
>> >
>> >> The point is not that the car is very unreliable but parts are so
>> >> very
>> >> expensive.
>> >>
>> >> The guys I track with tell me they pay more for 1 shock than we do
>> >> for a
>> >> complete set.
>> >>
>> >> Brakes are the same for the prices.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Larry
>> >>
>> >> White Knight 1991 Crystal White #99 CSP
>> >> Silver Bullet 1992 Silverstone #17 EM FM I+ Turbo
>> >> Honey B 1992 Sunburst Yellow J.R. M45
>> >> Whooosh 2004 Titanium MazdaSpeed MX5
>> >>
>> >> LowCountry Miata lowcountrymiataclub.net
>> >> Masters Miata
>> >> RAGS 074
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Chris Robertson" <(email redacted)>
>> >> To: "Larry Alster" <(email redacted)>; "Mark Rivera"
>> >> <(email redacted)>;
>> >> <(email redacted)>
>> >> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 8:31 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: Life beyond Miata? New car options...
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > "Thousands of repairs every few months" is a ridiculous
>> conjecture.
>> >> As
>> >> > mentioned before, the 99 and later 911s are reliable. Plus you
>> >> don't
>> >> > need to spend money modding it...it's really perfect as-is. 40+
>> >> years
>> >> > of evolution gives you a pretty refined product. Go drive one
>> and
>> >> open
>> >> > your mind. :)
>> >> >
>> >> > --- Larry Alster <(email redacted)> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> All true but the point is still buying a 40k driver that needs
>> >> >> thousands of
>> >> >> repairs every few months could make a 40k garage queen.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Larry
>> >> >>
>> >> >> White Knight 1991 Crystal White #99 CSP
>> >> >> Silver Bullet 1992 Silverstone #17 EM FM I+ Turbo
>> >> >> Honey B 1992 Sunburst Yellow J.R. M45
>> >> >> Whooosh 2004 Titanium MazdaSpeed MX5
>> >> >>
>> >> >> LowCountry Miata lowcountrymiataclub.net
>> >> >> Masters Miata
>> >> >> RAGS 074
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> From: "Chris Robertson" <(email redacted)>
>> >> >> To: "Larry Alster" <(email redacted)>; "Mark Rivera"
>> >> >> <(email redacted)>;
>> >> >> <(email redacted)>
>> >> >> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:53 PM
>> >> >> Subject: Re: Life beyond Miata? New car options...
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > It's a lot cheaper to repair a Miata too. Gonna pay big to
>> fix
>> >> an
>> >> >> off
>> >> >> > track excursion in a 911. But really, it's not fair to
>> compare
>> >> the
>> >> >> > Miata to the 911. This thread was originally about finding a
>> >> fun
>> >> >> > sporty daily driver for $40K.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > --- Larry Alster <(email redacted)> wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> I was thinking the same thing about the 911. Quite a few of
>> >> the
>> >> >> >> Porsche
>> >> >> >> people we drive with at the track are amazed at the cost to
>> >> modify
>> >> >> >> our cars.
>> >> >> >> :) A few of them have added Miatas to their track stable
>> just
>> >> >> >> because they
>> >> >> >> can get one cheap and upgrade it cheap and maintain it
>> cheap.
>> >> See
>> >> >> a
>> >> >> >> trend.
>> >> >> >> :)
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Larry
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> White Knight 1991 Crystal White #99 CSP
>> >> >> >> Silver Bullet 1992 Silverstone #17 EM FM I+ Turbo
>> >> >> >> Honey B 1992 Sunburst Yellow J.R. M45
>> >> >> >> Whooosh 2004 Titanium MazdaSpeed MX5
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> LowCountry Miata lowcountrymiataclub.net
>> >> >> >> Masters Miata
>> >> >> >> RAGS 074
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> >> From: "Mark Rivera" <(email redacted)>
>> >> >> >> To: <(email redacted)>
>> >> >> >> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 2:42 PM
>> >> >> >> Subject: RE: Life beyond Miata? New car options...
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >I may not be qualified to respond here, having never driven
>> >> one,
>> >> >> but
>> >> >> >> for
>> >> >> >> > $40K, a used 911 isn't at the top of my list. That used
>> to
>> >> be
>> >> >> my
>> >> >> >> dream
>> >> >> >> > car,
>> >> >> >> > until I saw what you could get performance-wise for a
>> >> fraction
>> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> > price.
>> >> >> >> > They don't have the best reputation for reliability and
>> cost
>> >> to
>> >> >> >> maintain,
>> >> >> >> > either. No offense to any 911 owners, I'm just not as
>> >> excited
>> >> >> >> about them
>> >> >> >> > as
>> >> >> >> > I once was.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > I really like the AWD sedan options out there these days
>> in
>> >> the
>> >> >> EVO
>> >> >> >> and
>> >> >> >> > STi.
>> >> >> >> > I'd love to have one, but can't justify it with my wife's
>> >> old,
>> >> >> >> reliable
>> >> >> >> > (and
>> >> >> >> > boring) Galant around that won't die.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > If you don't mind tinkering, you could find a 99-01'
>> Impreza
>> >> >> 2.5RS
>> >> >> >> with
>> >> >> >> > engine trouble and swap in the 2.0L from the WRX. Lots of
>> >> >> >> potential
>> >> >> >> > there,
>> >> >> >> > IMO. Course those cars are rare enough without trying to
>> >> find
>> >> >> one
>>
> === message truncated ===
>
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: K G <(email redacted)>

Let's see...

Had mine a month...spun a rod bearing...blew the
engine..$14K rebuild. Then...new turbo (tried
rebuilding the old one twice)...then, new clutch,
replaced exhaust...converted A/C to new type...broken
this...broken that...

Over about 5 years..I had to drop about $30K on a car
I paid $25K for...

I'm in deep debt due to the 930...trying to dig my way
out. Fun car to drive when it works..but, every time
to the shop was pretty much like $4k-$5K.

You only had 9 quarts of oil? I think mine (rest its
soul) took about 14 quarts of oil on an oil
change...is yours not air cooled engine?

Hey, they're fun cars...but, you do have to be able to
afford them. If I could afford a true exotic again...I
think I'd go for the Viper...just my humble opinion.

I'm really excited about getting a miata and turboing
it...from what I drove..thing handles about as well as
a Porsche, probably as fast as mine was...and more
reliable and less costly to repair. I know friends
with newer Porsches...costly repairs at regular
intervals are about par for them too. Maybe you got
lucky and got one that is uniquely well 'behaved'?

:-)

Just my experience.

Kelly

--- Chris Robertson <(email redacted)> wrote:

> Larry, you're way off. Tracking puts a lot more
> wear on cars than
> daily driving. A set of pads may last one track
> event. But fine, I'll
> play your way. A street 911 may need new shocks
> after 150K miles.
> Change the oil yourself every 15,000 miles: filter
> $12, 9 quarts of
> Mobil 1 $60. Brake pads every 25-30K $150 front
> pair. It's more than
> a Miata. But it's no Lamboghini or Ferrari needing
> frequent
> maintenance, rebuilds or insanely expensive parts.
> Take care of it
> with plenty of "mechanical empathy" and it will last
> a long time with
> infrequent needs. My point is that it's a helluva
> car for $40K. It
> does everything well. I began to understand this
> about a year ago and
> now I own one. I still love Miatas too.
>

Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright, until you hear them speak....




______________________________________________________
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Chris Robertson <(email redacted)>

(If you are interested in the 911, read on 'cause there is good info
below)

KG, that's a 20 year old car. It's unfortunate that you had so much go
wrong with yours. Your 930 Turbo was mid to late 1980s, right? That
is four generations ago and probably the worst in 911 reliabilty. The
mid to late 80s sucked for quality cars in general. It's a very short
list...all I can think of is the 1st gen RX-7.

The 996 is several orders of magnitude better in performance and
reliability than the 930. BTW, 911s have been watercooled since the
996 came out. Here's a 911 timeline to put it in perspective, with
NADA values (range is from base model to Turbo):
930- 1984-1989 $15-47K
964- 1989-1993 $18-55K
993- 1994-1998 $30-70K
996- 1998-2004/5 $35-110K
997- 2005+ $70+

Truism: "The newest 911 is the best 911." Some people love certain
years or body styles, and that's one reason why the sexy 993 series has
held its value so well. But the Porsche engineers improve the car some
every year and a lot with each new generation. For this reason, any
911 "buying guide" will tell you to buy the newest 911 that you can
afford, as it is the best. Previous bugs are worked out, reliablility,
power, handling, and day to day usability is improved.

Currently, 996 pricing has hit an amazing low. There are more cars for
sale than buyers that are looking for them. You can get a 996 for the
same price or cheaper than a 993! This phenomenon has had much
discussion on the Porsche forums and it appears the reason for the 996
buyer's market is severalfold: The new 997 just came out so people are
"upgrading;" many cars are coming off lease at this point in time;
Porsche made more of the 996 than any 911 in history so there is a
large supply; 911 diehard fans hate the 996 Boxster-esque headlights;
the economy is such that people can't afford to pay their $75K+ monthly
car payment; and finally the exotic sports car market is suffering so
fewer buyers than sellers. Whatever the reason, finally a regular joe
can afford to get one of these amazing cars for almost half the
original sticker price. If you look hard enough, you can find one with
low miles for under $40K. The opportunity is unusual and may or may
not last. I found a gem of a car, a 2001 911 Turbo with 17K pampered
miles, extended warranty, and $25K worth of options. I paid half its
original sticker price and $15K under book value. I never dreamed of
owning such a car just 1-2 years ago. :) :) :)


--- K G <(email redacted)> wrote:

> Let's see...
>
> Had mine a month...spun a rod bearing...blew the
> engine..$14K rebuild. Then...new turbo (tried
> rebuilding the old one twice)...then, new clutch,
> replaced exhaust...converted A/C to new type...broken
> this...broken that...
>
> Over about 5 years..I had to drop about $30K on a car
> I paid $25K for...
>
> I'm in deep debt due to the 930...trying to dig my way
> out. Fun car to drive when it works..but, every time
> to the shop was pretty much like $4k-$5K.
>
> You only had 9 quarts of oil? I think mine (rest its
> soul) took about 14 quarts of oil on an oil
> change...is yours not air cooled engine?
>
> Hey, they're fun cars...but, you do have to be able to
> afford them. If I could afford a true exotic again...I
> think I'd go for the Viper...just my humble opinion.
>
> I'm really excited about getting a miata and turboing
> it...from what I drove..thing handles about as well as
> a Porsche, probably as fast as mine was...and more
> reliable and less costly to repair. I know friends
> with newer Porsches...costly repairs at regular
> intervals are about par for them too. Maybe you got
> lucky and got one that is uniquely well 'behaved'?
>
> :-)
>
> Just my experience.
>
> Kelly
>
> --- Chris Robertson <(email redacted)> wrote:
>
> > Larry, you're way off. Tracking puts a lot more
> > wear on cars than
> > daily driving. A set of pads may last one track
> > event. But fine, I'll
> > play your way. A street 911 may need new shocks
> > after 150K miles.
> > Change the oil yourself every 15,000 miles: filter
> > $12, 9 quarts of
> > Mobil 1 $60. Brake pads every 25-30K $150 front
> > pair. It's more than
> > a Miata. But it's no Lamboghini or Ferrari needing
> > frequent
> > maintenance, rebuilds or insanely expensive parts.
> > Take care of it
> > with plenty of "mechanical empathy" and it will last
> > a long time with
> > infrequent needs. My point is that it's a helluva
> > car for $40K. It
> > does everything well. I began to understand this
> > about a year ago and
> > now I own one. I still love Miatas too.
> >
>
> Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear
> bright, until you hear them speak....
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
> store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Shepherd, Mike" <(email redacted)>

Along those lines if you are looking late model, stick with the 996 or
earlier. The 997 (along with practially every other Porsche made in the
past couple years) is having horrible QC and reliability issues right
now. Take a browse through the forum at rennlist.com before buyng any
of those cars. Great performance cars? Yes. Put together well lately?
No. Costly to repair? Yes.=20=20

Mike
91 Miata turbo
99 Miata
02 Nissan
04 Porsche=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Robertson [mailto:(email redacted)]=20
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 11:51 PM
To: K G; miata
Subject: Re: Life beyond Miata? New car options...

(If you are interested in the 911, read on 'cause there is good info
below)

KG, that's a 20 year old car. It's unfortunate that you had so much go
wrong with yours. Your 930 Turbo was mid to late 1980s, right? That is
four generations ago and probably the worst in 911 reliabilty. The mid
to late 80s sucked for quality cars in general. It's a very short
list...all I can think of is the 1st gen RX-7.=20=20

The 996 is several orders of magnitude better in performance and
reliability than the 930. BTW, 911s have been watercooled since the
996 came out. Here's a 911 timeline to put it in perspective, with NADA
values (range is from base model to Turbo):
930- 1984-1989 $15-47K
964- 1989-1993 $18-55K
993- 1994-1998 $30-70K
996- 1998-2004/5 $35-110K
997- 2005+ $70+

Truism: "The newest 911 is the best 911." Some people love certain
years or body styles, and that's one reason why the sexy 993 series has
held its value so well. But the Porsche engineers improve the car some
every year and a lot with each new generation. For this reason, any
911 "buying guide" will tell you to buy the newest 911 that you can
afford, as it is the best. Previous bugs are worked out, reliablility,
power, handling, and day to day usability is improved.=20=20

Currently, 996 pricing has hit an amazing low. There are more cars for
sale than buyers that are looking for them. You can get a 996 for the
same price or cheaper than a 993! This phenomenon has had much
discussion on the Porsche forums and it appears the reason for the 996
buyer's market is severalfold: The new 997 just came out so people are
"upgrading;" many cars are coming off lease at this point in time;
Porsche made more of the 996 than any 911 in history so there is a large
supply; 911 diehard fans hate the 996 Boxster-esque headlights; the
economy is such that people can't afford to pay their $75K+ monthly car
payment; and finally the exotic sports car market is suffering so fewer
buyers than sellers. Whatever the reason, finally a regular joe can
afford to get one of these amazing cars for almost half the original
sticker price. If you look hard enough, you can find one with low miles
for under $40K. The opportunity is unusual and may or may not last. I
found a gem of a car, a 2001 911 Turbo with 17K pampered miles, extended
warranty, and $25K worth of options. I paid half its original sticker
price and $15K under book value. I never dreamed of owning such a car
just 1-2 years ago. :) :) :)


--- K G <(email redacted)> wrote:

> Let's see...
>=20
> Had mine a month...spun a rod bearing...blew the engine..$14K rebuild.

> Then...new turbo (tried rebuilding the old one twice)...then, new=20
> clutch, replaced exhaust...converted A/C to new type...broken=20
> this...broken that...
>=20
> Over about 5 years..I had to drop about $30K on a car I paid $25K=20
> for...
>=20
> I'm in deep debt due to the 930...trying to dig my way out. Fun car to

> drive when it works..but, every time to the shop was pretty much like=20
> $4k-$5K.
>=20
> You only had 9 quarts of oil? I think mine (rest its
> soul) took about 14 quarts of oil on an oil change...is yours not air=20
> cooled engine?
>=20
> Hey, they're fun cars...but, you do have to be able to afford them. If

> I could afford a true exotic again...I think I'd go for the=20
> Viper...just my humble opinion.
>=20
> I'm really excited about getting a miata and turboing it...from what I

> drove..thing handles about as well as a Porsche, probably as fast as=20
> mine was...and more reliable and less costly to repair. I know friends

> with newer Porsches...costly repairs at regular intervals are about=20
> par for them too. Maybe you got lucky and got one that is uniquely=20
> well 'behaved'?
>=20
> :-)
>=20
> Just my experience.
>=20
> Kelly
>=20
> --- Chris Robertson <(email redacted)> wrote:
>=20
> > Larry, you're way off. Tracking puts a lot more wear on cars than=20
> > daily driving. A set of pads may last one track event. But fine,=20
> > I'll play your way. A street 911 may need new shocks after 150K=20
> > miles.
> > Change the oil yourself every 15,000 miles: filter $12, 9 quarts of=20
> > Mobil 1 $60. Brake pads every 25-30K $150 front pair. It's more=20
> > than a Miata. But it's no Lamboghini or Ferrari needing frequent=20
> > maintenance, rebuilds or insanely expensive parts.
> > Take care of it
> > with plenty of "mechanical empathy" and it will last a long time=20
> > with infrequent needs. My point is that it's a helluva car for=20
> > $40K. It does everything well. I began to understand this about a=20
> > year ago and now I own one. I still love Miatas too.
> >=20
>=20
> Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear=20
> bright, until you hear them speak....
>=20
>=20
>=20=09
>=20=09=09
> ______________________________________________________
> Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
> store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/
>=20

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Tim South" <(email redacted)>

Beware of the OBDII 993's. Many are suffering (as read on pelican forums on
the internet, FWIW) premature valve guide wear, causing oil burning, EGR
port clogging, and finally causing MILs & emissions test failures. Nice
P-car durability right (assuming this is all true)?


----- Original Message -----
From: "Shepherd, Mike" <(email redacted)>
To: "Chris Robertson" <(email redacted)>; "K G"
<(email redacted)>; "miata" <(email redacted)>
Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 8:40 AM
Subject: RE: Life beyond Miata? New car options...


Along those lines if you are looking late model, stick with the 996 or
earlier. The 997 (along with practially every other Porsche made in the
past couple years) is having horrible QC and reliability issues right
now. Take a browse through the forum at rennlist.com before buyng any
of those cars. Great performance cars? Yes. Put together well lately?
No. Costly to repair? Yes.

Mike
91 Miata turbo
99 Miata
02 Nissan
04 Porsche

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Robertson [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 11:51 PM
To: K G; miata
Subject: Re: Life beyond Miata? New car options...

(If you are interested in the 911, read on 'cause there is good info
below)

KG, that's a 20 year old car. It's unfortunate that you had so much go
wrong with yours. Your 930 Turbo was mid to late 1980s, right? That is
four generations ago and probably the worst in 911 reliabilty. The mid
to late 80s sucked for quality cars in general. It's a very short
list...all I can think of is the 1st gen RX-7.

The 996 is several orders of magnitude better in performance and
reliability than the 930. BTW, 911s have been watercooled since the
996 came out. Here's a 911 timeline to put it in perspective, with NADA
values (range is from base model to Turbo):
930- 1984-1989 $15-47K
964- 1989-1993 $18-55K
993- 1994-1998 $30-70K
996- 1998-2004/5 $35-110K
997- 2005+ $70+

Truism: "The newest 911 is the best 911." Some people love certain
years or body styles, and that's one reason why the sexy 993 series has
held its value so well. But the Porsche engineers improve the car some
every year and a lot with each new generation. For this reason, any
911 "buying guide" will tell you to buy the newest 911 that you can
afford, as it is the best. Previous bugs are worked out, reliablility,
power, handling, and day to day usability is improved.

Currently, 996 pricing has hit an amazing low. There are more cars for
sale than buyers that are looking for them. You can get a 996 for the
same price or cheaper than a 993! This phenomenon has had much
discussion on the Porsche forums and it appears the reason for the 996
buyer's market is severalfold: The new 997 just came out so people are
"upgrading;" many cars are coming off lease at this point in time;
Porsche made more of the 996 than any 911 in history so there is a large
supply; 911 diehard fans hate the 996 Boxster-esque headlights; the
economy is such that people can't afford to pay their $75K+ monthly car
payment; and finally the exotic sports car market is suffering so fewer
buyers than sellers. Whatever the reason, finally a regular joe can
afford to get one of these amazing cars for almost half the original
sticker price. If you look hard enough, you can find one with low miles
for under $40K. The opportunity is unusual and may or may not last. I
found a gem of a car, a 2001 911 Turbo with 17K pampered miles, extended
warranty, and $25K worth of options. I paid half its original sticker
price and $15K under book value. I never dreamed of owning such a car
just 1-2 years ago. :) :) :)


--- K G <(email redacted)> wrote:

> Let's see...
>
> Had mine a month...spun a rod bearing...blew the engine..$14K rebuild.

> Then...new turbo (tried rebuilding the old one twice)...then, new
> clutch, replaced exhaust...converted A/C to new type...broken
> this...broken that...
>
> Over about 5 years..I had to drop about $30K on a car I paid $25K
> for...
>
> I'm in deep debt due to the 930...trying to dig my way out. Fun car to

> drive when it works..but, every time to the shop was pretty much like
> $4k-$5K.
>
> You only had 9 quarts of oil? I think mine (rest its
> soul) took about 14 quarts of oil on an oil change...is yours not air
> cooled engine?
>
> Hey, they're fun cars...but, you do have to be able to afford them. If

> I could afford a true exotic again...I think I'd go for the
> Viper...just my humble opinion.
>
> I'm really excited about getting a miata and turboing it...from what I

> drove..thing handles about as well as a Porsche, probably as fast as
> mine was...and more reliable and less costly to repair. I know friends

> with newer Porsches...costly repairs at regular intervals are about
> par for them too. Maybe you got lucky and got one that is uniquely
> well 'behaved'?
>
> :-)
>
> Just my experience.
>
> Kelly
>
> --- Chris Robertson <(email redacted)> wrote:
>
> > Larry, you're way off. Tracking puts a lot more wear on cars than
> > daily driving. A set of pads may last one track event. But fine,
> > I'll play your way. A street 911 may need new shocks after 150K
> > miles.
> > Change the oil yourself every 15,000 miles: filter $12, 9 quarts of
> > Mobil 1 $60. Brake pads every 25-30K $150 front pair. It's more
> > than a Miata. But it's no Lamboghini or Ferrari needing frequent
> > maintenance, rebuilds or insanely expensive parts.
> > Take care of it
> > with plenty of "mechanical empathy" and it will last a long time
> > with infrequent needs. My point is that it's a helluva car for
> > $40K. It does everything well. I began to understand this about a
> > year ago and now I own one. I still love Miatas too.
> >
>
> Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear
> bright, until you hear them speak....
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
> store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Chris Robertson <(email redacted)>

Yeah, the 993 has several issues including the dreaded RMS leak (real
main seal). Sexy car though. But this is just one of the many reasons
why I think the 996 is the car to get, especially given the current
market. The old 911 die-hards just can get over the water-cooled
design and Boxster headlights even though it is a far better car!

--- Tim South <(email redacted)> wrote:

> Beware of the OBDII 993's. Many are suffering (as read on pelican
> forums on
> the internet, FWIW) premature valve guide wear, causing oil burning,
> EGR
> port clogging, and finally causing MILs & emissions test failures.
> Nice
> P-car durability right (assuming this is all true)?
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shepherd, Mike" <(email redacted)>
> To: "Chris Robertson" <(email redacted)>; "K G"
> <(email redacted)>; "miata" <(email redacted)>
> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 8:40 AM
> Subject: RE: Life beyond Miata? New car options...
>
>
> Along those lines if you are looking late model, stick with the 996
> or
> earlier. The 997 (along with practially every other Porsche made in
> the
> past couple years) is having horrible QC and reliability issues right
> now. Take a browse through the forum at rennlist.com before buyng
> any
> of those cars. Great performance cars? Yes. Put together well
> lately?
> No. Costly to repair? Yes.
>
> Mike
> 91 Miata turbo
> 99 Miata
> 02 Nissan
> 04 Porsche
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Robertson [mailto:(email redacted)]
> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 11:51 PM
> To: K G; miata
> Subject: Re: Life beyond Miata? New car options...
>
> (If you are interested in the 911, read on 'cause there is good info
> below)
>
> KG, that's a 20 year old car. It's unfortunate that you had so much
> go
> wrong with yours. Your 930 Turbo was mid to late 1980s, right? That
> is
> four generations ago and probably the worst in 911 reliabilty. The
> mid
> to late 80s sucked for quality cars in general. It's a very short
> list...all I can think of is the 1st gen RX-7.
>
> The 996 is several orders of magnitude better in performance and
> reliability than the 930. BTW, 911s have been watercooled since the
> 996 came out. Here's a 911 timeline to put it in perspective, with
> NADA
> values (range is from base model to Turbo):
> 930- 1984-1989 $15-47K
> 964- 1989-1993 $18-55K
> 993- 1994-1998 $30-70K
> 996- 1998-2004/5 $35-110K
> 997- 2005+ $70+
>
> Truism: "The newest 911 is the best 911." Some people love certain
> years or body styles, and that's one reason why the sexy 993 series
> has
> held its value so well. But the Porsche engineers improve the car
> some
> every year and a lot with each new generation. For this reason, any
> 911 "buying guide" will tell you to buy the newest 911 that you can
> afford, as it is the best. Previous bugs are worked out,
> reliablility,
> power, handling, and day to day usability is improved.
>
> Currently, 996 pricing has hit an amazing low. There are more cars
> for
> sale than buyers that are looking for them. You can get a 996 for
> the
> same price or cheaper than a 993! This phenomenon has had much
> discussion on the Porsche forums and it appears the reason for the
> 996
> buyer's market is severalfold: The new 997 just came out so people
> are
> "upgrading;" many cars are coming off lease at this point in time;
> Porsche made more of the 996 than any 911 in history so there is a
> large
> supply; 911 diehard fans hate the 996 Boxster-esque headlights; the
> economy is such that people can't afford to pay their $75K+ monthly
> car
> payment; and finally the exotic sports car market is suffering so
> fewer
> buyers than sellers. Whatever the reason, finally a regular joe can
> afford to get one of these amazing cars for almost half the original
> sticker price. If you look hard enough, you can find one with low
> miles
> for under $40K. The opportunity is unusual and may or may not last.
> I
> found a gem of a car, a 2001 911 Turbo with 17K pampered miles,
> extended
> warranty, and $25K worth of options. I paid half its original
> sticker
> price and $15K under book value. I never dreamed of owning such a
> car
> just 1-2 years ago. :) :) :)
>
>
> --- K G <(email redacted)> wrote:
>
> > Let's see...
> >
> > Had mine a month...spun a rod bearing...blew the engine..$14K
> rebuild.
>
> > Then...new turbo (tried rebuilding the old one twice)...then, new
> > clutch, replaced exhaust...converted A/C to new type...broken
> > this...broken that...
> >
> > Over about 5 years..I had to drop about $30K on a car I paid $25K
> > for...
> >
> > I'm in deep debt due to the 930...trying to dig my way out. Fun car
> to
>
> > drive when it works..but, every time to the shop was pretty much
> like
> > $4k-$5K.
> >
> > You only had 9 quarts of oil? I think mine (rest its
> > soul) took about 14 quarts of oil on an oil change...is yours not
> air
> > cooled engine?
> >
> > Hey, they're fun cars...but, you do have to be able to afford them.
> If
>
> > I could afford a true exotic again...I think I'd go for the
> > Viper...just my humble opinion.
> >
> > I'm really excited about getting a miata and turboing it...from
> what I
>
> > drove..thing handles about as well as a Porsche, probably as fast
> as
> > mine was...and more reliable and less costly to repair. I know
> friends
>
> > with newer Porsches...costly repairs at regular intervals are about
> > par for them too. Maybe you got lucky and got one that is uniquely
> > well 'behaved'?
> >
> > :-)
> >
> > Just my experience.
> >
> > Kelly
> >
> > --- Chris Robertson <(email redacted)> wrote:
> >
> > > Larry, you're way off. Tracking puts a lot more wear on cars
> than
> > > daily driving. A set of pads may last one track event. But
> fine,
> > > I'll play your way. A street 911 may need new shocks after 150K
> > > miles.
> > > Change the oil yourself every 15,000 miles: filter $12, 9 quarts
> of
> > > Mobil 1 $60. Brake pads every 25-30K $150 front pair. It's more
> > > than a Miata. But it's no Lamboghini or Ferrari needing frequent
> > > maintenance, rebuilds or insanely expensive parts.
> > > Take care of it
> > > with plenty of "mechanical empathy" and it will last a long time
> > > with infrequent needs. My point is that it's a helluva car for
> > > $40K. It does everything well. I began to understand this about
> a
> > > year ago and now I own one. I still love Miatas too.
> > >
> >
> > Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear
> > bright, until you hear them speak....
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________
> > Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
> > store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/
> >
>
>
>
>
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Burgess, Michael L." <(email redacted)>

You guys,

What about buying a VW R32 (golf/gti) and putting on that dual turbo system
that makes 550hp and 0-60 in 3.2 seconds? 1/4 mile in 11.xx seconds. And
has the quattro that punishes the turns?

Excellent track car, no?

Daily driveable too--

-Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Shepherd, Mike [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 8:41 AM
To: Chris Robertson; K G; miata
Subject: RE: Life beyond Miata? New car options...


Along those lines if you are looking late model, stick with the 996 or
earlier. The 997 (along with practially every other Porsche made in the
past couple years) is having horrible QC and reliability issues right
now. Take a browse through the forum at rennlist.com before buyng any
of those cars. Great performance cars? Yes. Put together well lately?
No. Costly to repair? Yes.

Mike
91 Miata turbo
99 Miata
02 Nissan
04 Porsche

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Robertson [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 11:51 PM
To: K G; miata
Subject: Re: Life beyond Miata? New car options...

(If you are interested in the 911, read on 'cause there is good info
below)

KG, that's a 20 year old car. It's unfortunate that you had so much go
wrong with yours. Your 930 Turbo was mid to late 1980s, right? That is
four generations ago and probably the worst in 911 reliabilty. The mid
to late 80s sucked for quality cars in general. It's a very short
list...all I can think of is the 1st gen RX-7.

The 996 is several orders of magnitude better in performance and
reliability than the 930. BTW, 911s have been watercooled since the
996 came out. Here's a 911 timeline to put it in perspective, with NADA
values (range is from base model to Turbo):
930- 1984-1989 $15-47K
964- 1989-1993 $18-55K
993- 1994-1998 $30-70K
996- 1998-2004/5 $35-110K
997- 2005+ $70+

Truism: "The newest 911 is the best 911." Some people love certain
years or body styles, and that's one reason why the sexy 993 series has
held its value so well. But the Porsche engineers improve the car some
every year and a lot with each new generation. For this reason, any
911 "buying guide" will tell you to buy the newest 911 that you can
afford, as it is the best. Previous bugs are worked out, reliablility,
power, handling, and day to day usability is improved.

Currently, 996 pricing has hit an amazing low. There are more cars for
sale than buyers that are looking for them. You can get a 996 for the
same price or cheaper than a 993! This phenomenon has had much
discussion on the Porsche forums and it appears the reason for the 996
buyer's market is severalfold: The new 997 just came out so people are
"upgrading;" many cars are coming off lease at this point in time;
Porsche made more of the 996 than any 911 in history so there is a large
supply; 911 diehard fans hate the 996 Boxster-esque headlights; the
economy is such that people can't afford to pay their $75K+ monthly car
payment; and finally the exotic sports car market is suffering so fewer
buyers than sellers. Whatever the reason, finally a regular joe can
afford to get one of these amazing cars for almost half the original
sticker price. If you look hard enough, you can find one with low miles
for under $40K. The opportunity is unusual and may or may not last. I
found a gem of a car, a 2001 911 Turbo with 17K pampered miles, extended
warranty, and $25K worth of options. I paid half its original sticker
price and $15K under book value. I never dreamed of owning such a car
just 1-2 years ago. :) :) :)


--- K G <(email redacted)> wrote:

> Let's see...
>
> Had mine a month...spun a rod bearing...blew the engine..$14K rebuild.

> Then...new turbo (tried rebuilding the old one twice)...then, new
> clutch, replaced exhaust...converted A/C to new type...broken
> this...broken that...
>
> Over about 5 years..I had to drop about $30K on a car I paid $25K
> for...
>
> I'm in deep debt due to the 930...trying to dig my way out. Fun car to

> drive when it works..but, every time to the shop was pretty much like
> $4k-$5K.
>
> You only had 9 quarts of oil? I think mine (rest its
> soul) took about 14 quarts of oil on an oil change...is yours not air
> cooled engine?
>
> Hey, they're fun cars...but, you do have to be able to afford them. If

> I could afford a true exotic again...I think I'd go for the
> Viper...just my humble opinion.
>
> I'm really excited about getting a miata and turboing it...from what I

> drove..thing handles about as well as a Porsche, probably as fast as
> mine was...and more reliable and less costly to repair. I know friends

> with newer Porsches...costly repairs at regular intervals are about
> par for them too. Maybe you got lucky and got one that is uniquely
> well 'behaved'?
>
> :-)
>
> Just my experience.
>
> Kelly
>
> --- Chris Robertson <(email redacted)> wrote:
>
> > Larry, you're way off. Tracking puts a lot more wear on cars than
> > daily driving. A set of pads may last one track event. But fine,
> > I'll play your way. A street 911 may need new shocks after 150K
> > miles.
> > Change the oil yourself every 15,000 miles: filter $12, 9 quarts of
> > Mobil 1 $60. Brake pads every 25-30K $150 front pair. It's more
> > than a Miata. But it's no Lamboghini or Ferrari needing frequent
> > maintenance, rebuilds or insanely expensive parts.
> > Take care of it
> > with plenty of "mechanical empathy" and it will last a long time
> > with infrequent needs. My point is that it's a helluva car for
> > $40K. It does everything well. I began to understand this about a
> > year ago and now I own one. I still love Miatas too.
> >
>
> Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear
> bright, until you hear them speak....
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
> store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/
>


______________________________________________________________________
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______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Chris Robertson <(email redacted)>

Ooooh, me likey!

--- "Burgess, Michael L." <(email redacted)> wrote:

> You guys,
>
> What about buying a VW R32 (golf/gti) and putting on that dual turbo
> system
> that makes 550hp and 0-60 in 3.2 seconds? 1/4 mile in 11.xx seconds.
> And
> has the quattro that punishes the turns?
>
> Excellent track car, no?
>
> Daily driveable too--
>
> -Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shepherd, Mike [mailto:(email redacted)]
> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 8:41 AM
> To: Chris Robertson; K G; miata
> Subject: RE: Life beyond Miata? New car options...
>
>
> Along those lines if you are looking late model, stick with the 996
> or
> earlier. The 997 (along with practially every other Porsche made in
> the
> past couple years) is having horrible QC and reliability issues right
> now. Take a browse through the forum at rennlist.com before buyng
> any
> of those cars. Great performance cars? Yes. Put together well
> lately?
> No. Costly to repair? Yes.
>
> Mike
> 91 Miata turbo
> 99 Miata
> 02 Nissan
> 04 Porsche
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Robertson [mailto:(email redacted)]
> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 11:51 PM
> To: K G; miata
> Subject: Re: Life beyond Miata? New car options...
>
> (If you are interested in the 911, read on 'cause there is good info
> below)
>
> KG, that's a 20 year old car. It's unfortunate that you had so much
> go
> wrong with yours. Your 930 Turbo was mid to late 1980s, right? That
> is
> four generations ago and probably the worst in 911 reliabilty. The
> mid
> to late 80s sucked for quality cars in general. It's a very short
> list...all I can think of is the 1st gen RX-7.
>
> The 996 is several orders of magnitude better in performance and
> reliability than the 930. BTW, 911s have been watercooled since the
> 996 came out. Here's a 911 timeline to put it in perspective, with
> NADA
> values (range is from base model to Turbo):
> 930- 1984-1989 $15-47K
> 964- 1989-1993 $18-55K
> 993- 1994-1998 $30-70K
> 996- 1998-2004/5 $35-110K
> 997- 2005+ $70+
>
> Truism: "The newest 911 is the best 911." Some people love certain
> years or body styles, and that's one reason why the sexy 993 series
> has
> held its value so well. But the Porsche engineers improve the car
> some
> every year and a lot with each new generation. For this reason, any
> 911 "buying guide" will tell you to buy the newest 911 that you can
> afford, as it is the best. Previous bugs are worked out,
> reliablility,
> power, handling, and day to day usability is improved.
>
> Currently, 996 pricing has hit an amazing low. There are more cars
> for
> sale than buyers that are looking for them. You can get a 996 for
> the
> same price or cheaper than a 993! This phenomenon has had much
> discussion on the Porsche forums and it appears the reason for the
> 996
> buyer's market is severalfold: The new 997 just came out so people
> are
> "upgrading;" many cars are coming off lease at this point in time;
> Porsche made more of the 996 than any 911 in history so there is a
> large
> supply; 911 diehard fans hate the 996 Boxster-esque headlights; the
> economy is such that people can't afford to pay their $75K+ monthly
> car
> payment; and finally the exotic sports car market is suffering so
> fewer
> buyers than sellers. Whatever the reason, finally a regular joe can
> afford to get one of these amazing cars for almost half the original
> sticker price. If you look hard enough, you can find one with low
> miles
> for under $40K. The opportunity is unusual and may or may not last.
> I
> found a gem of a car, a 2001 911 Turbo with 17K pampered miles,
> extended
> warranty, and $25K worth of options. I paid half its original
> sticker
> price and $15K under book value. I never dreamed of owning such a
> car
> just 1-2 years ago. :) :) :)
>
>
> --- K G <(email redacted)> wrote:
>
> > Let's see...
> >
> > Had mine a month...spun a rod bearing...blew the engine..$14K
> rebuild.
>
> > Then...new turbo (tried rebuilding the old one twice)...then, new
> > clutch, replaced exhaust...converted A/C to new type...broken
> > this...broken that...
> >
> > Over about 5 years..I had to drop about $30K on a car I paid $25K
> > for...
> >
> > I'm in deep debt due to the 930...trying to dig my way out. Fun car
> to
>
> > drive when it works..but, every time to the shop was pretty much
> like
> > $4k-$5K.
> >
> > You only had 9 quarts of oil? I think mine (rest its
> > soul) took about 14 quarts of oil on an oil change...is yours not
> air
> > cooled engine?
> >
> > Hey, they're fun cars...but, you do have to be able to afford them.
> If
>
> > I could afford a true exotic again...I think I'd go for the
> > Viper...just my humble opinion.
> >
> > I'm really excited about getting a miata and turboing it...from
> what I
>
> > drove..thing handles about as well as a Porsche, probably as fast
> as
> > mine was...and more reliable and less costly to repair. I know
> friends
>
> > with newer Porsches...costly repairs at regular intervals are about
>
> > par for them too. Maybe you got lucky and got one that is uniquely
> > well 'behaved'?
> >
> > :-)
> >
> > Just my experience.
> >
> > Kelly
> >
> > --- Chris Robertson <(email redacted)> wrote:
> >
> > > Larry, you're way off. Tracking puts a lot more wear on cars
> than
> > > daily driving. A set of pads may last one track event. But
> fine,
> > > I'll play your way. A street 911 may need new shocks after 150K
> > > miles.
> > > Change the oil yourself every 15,000 miles: filter $12, 9 quarts
> of
> > > Mobil 1 $60. Brake pads every 25-30K $150 front pair. It's more
>
> > > than a Miata. But it's no Lamboghini or Ferrari needing frequent
>
> > > maintenance, rebuilds or insanely expensive parts.
> > > Take care of it
> > > with plenty of "mechanical empathy" and it will last a long time
> > > with infrequent needs. My point is that it's a helluva car for
> > > $40K. It does everything well. I began to understand this about
> a
> > > year ago and now I own one. I still love Miatas too.
> > >
> >
> > Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear
> > bright, until you hear them speak....
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________
> > Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
> > store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/
> >
>
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
> This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
> For more information please visit messagelabs.com/email
>
>
>
=== message truncated ===

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Burgess, Michael L." <(email redacted)>

Me lovey!

Links:

europeancarweb.com/tuned/0401ec_vwgolf/

avi.freedman.net/hpa-after1.html

hpamotorsports.com/

Happy Drooling!

-Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Robertson [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 9:37 AM
To: miata
Subject: RE: Life beyond Miata? New car options...


Ooooh, me likey!

--- "Burgess, Michael L." <(email redacted)> wrote:

> You guys,
>
> What about buying a VW R32 (golf/gti) and putting on that dual turbo
> system
> that makes 550hp and 0-60 in 3.2 seconds? 1/4 mile in 11.xx seconds.
> And
> has the quattro that punishes the turns?
>
> Excellent track car, no?
>
> Daily driveable too--
>
> -Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shepherd, Mike [mailto:(email redacted)]
> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 8:41 AM
> To: Chris Robertson; K G; miata
> Subject: RE: Life beyond Miata? New car options...
>
>
> Along those lines if you are looking late model, stick with the 996
> or
> earlier. The 997 (along with practially every other Porsche made in
> the
> past couple years) is having horrible QC and reliability issues right
> now. Take a browse through the forum at rennlist.com before buyng
> any
> of those cars. Great performance cars? Yes. Put together well
> lately?
> No. Costly to repair? Yes.
>
> Mike
> 91 Miata turbo
> 99 Miata
> 02 Nissan
> 04 Porsche
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Robertson [mailto:(email redacted)]
> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 11:51 PM
> To: K G; miata
> Subject: Re: Life beyond Miata? New car options...
>
> (If you are interested in the 911, read on 'cause there is good info
> below)
>
> KG, that's a 20 year old car. It's unfortunate that you had so much
> go
> wrong with yours. Your 930 Turbo was mid to late 1980s, right? That
> is
> four generations ago and probably the worst in 911 reliabilty. The
> mid
> to late 80s sucked for quality cars in general. It's a very short
> list...all I can think of is the 1st gen RX-7.
>
> The 996 is several orders of magnitude better in performance and
> reliability than the 930. BTW, 911s have been watercooled since the
> 996 came out. Here's a 911 timeline to put it in perspective, with
> NADA
> values (range is from base model to Turbo):
> 930- 1984-1989 $15-47K
> 964- 1989-1993 $18-55K
> 993- 1994-1998 $30-70K
> 996- 1998-2004/5 $35-110K
> 997- 2005+ $70+
>
> Truism: "The newest 911 is the best 911." Some people love certain
> years or body styles, and that's one reason why the sexy 993 series
> has
> held its value so well. But the Porsche engineers improve the car
> some
> every year and a lot with each new generation. For this reason, any
> 911 "buying guide" will tell you to buy the newest 911 that you can
> afford, as it is the best. Previous bugs are worked out,
> reliablility,
> power, handling, and day to day usability is improved.
>
> Currently, 996 pricing has hit an amazing low. There are more cars
> for
> sale than buyers that are looking for them. You can get a 996 for
> the
> same price or cheaper than a 993! This phenomenon has had much
> discussion on the Porsche forums and it appears the reason for the
> 996
> buyer's market is severalfold: The new 997 just came out so people
> are
> "upgrading;" many cars are coming off lease at this point in time;
> Porsche made more of the 996 than any 911 in history so there is a
> large
> supply; 911 diehard fans hate the 996 Boxster-esque headlights; the
> economy is such that people can't afford to pay their $75K+ monthly
> car
> payment; and finally the exotic sports car market is suffering so
> fewer
> buyers than sellers. Whatever the reason, finally a regular joe can
> afford to get one of these amazing cars for almost half the original
> sticker price. If you look hard enough, you can find one with low
> miles
> for under $40K. The opportunity is unusual and may or may not last.
> I
> found a gem of a car, a 2001 911 Turbo with 17K pampered miles,
> extended
> warranty, and $25K worth of options. I paid half its original
> sticker
> price and $15K under book value. I never dreamed of owning such a
> car
> just 1-2 years ago. :) :) :)
>
>
> --- K G <(email redacted)> wrote:
>
> > Let's see...
> >
> > Had mine a month...spun a rod bearing...blew the engine..$14K
> rebuild.
>
> > Then...new turbo (tried rebuilding the old one twice)...then, new
> > clutch, replaced exhaust...converted A/C to new type...broken
> > this...broken that...
> >
> > Over about 5 years..I had to drop about $30K on a car I paid $25K
> > for...
> >
> > I'm in deep debt due to the 930...trying to dig my way out. Fun car
> to
>
> > drive when it works..but, every time to the shop was pretty much
> like
> > $4k-$5K.
> >
> > You only had 9 quarts of oil? I think mine (rest its
> > soul) took about 14 quarts of oil on an oil change...is yours not
> air
> > cooled engine?
> >
> > Hey, they're fun cars...but, you do have to be able to afford them.
> If
>
> > I could afford a true exotic again...I think I'd go for the
> > Viper...just my humble opinion.
> >
> > I'm really excited about getting a miata and turboing it...from
> what I
>
> > drove..thing handles about as well as a Porsche, probably as fast
> as
> > mine was...and more reliable and less costly to repair. I know
> friends
>
> > with newer Porsches...costly repairs at regular intervals are about
>
> > par for them too. Maybe you got lucky and got one that is uniquely
> > well 'behaved'?
> >
> > :-)
> >
> > Just my experience.
> >
> > Kelly
> >
> > --- Chris Robertson <(email redacted)> wrote:
> >
> > > Larry, you're way off. Tracking puts a lot more wear on cars
> than
> > > daily driving. A set of pads may last one track event. But
> fine,
> > > I'll play your way. A street 911 may need new shocks after 150K
> > > miles.
> > > Change the oil yourself every 15,000 miles: filter $12, 9 quarts
> of
> > > Mobil 1 $60. Brake pads every 25-30K $150 front pair. It's more
>
> > > than a Miata. But it's no Lamboghini or Ferrari needing frequent
>
> > > maintenance, rebuilds or insanely expensive parts.
> > > Take care of it
> > > with plenty of "mechanical empathy" and it will last a long time
> > > with infrequent needs. My point is that it's a helluva car for
> > > $40K. It does everything well. I began to understand this about
> a
> > > year ago and now I own one. I still love Miatas too.
> > >
> >
> > Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear
> > bright, until you hear them speak....
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________
> > Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
> > store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/
> >
>
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
> This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
> For more information please visit messagelabs.com/email
>
>
>
=== message truncated ===


______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more information please visit messagelabs.com/email


______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you
have received this e-mail in error, please notify (email redacted).
____________________________________________________________________

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Robert M" <(email redacted)>


If my recent VW experience is any indication I'd rather eat a dog crap
sandwich than buy a current VW product. Piddly crap always going wrong.
AC compressor at 40k, MAF at 65k ($400 for that gem at the dealer, part
only). Plenty of interior plastic faults. PCV/EGR soup gumming up the
intake (TDI). Alternator at 105k ($600-800 job at the dealer). Battery at
~90k. It's my ex's. Now she's my ex I predict she dumps it within the
year 'cause she sure as hell can't afford to maintain it.

Check the Audi lists, too- full of angry former customers, like the 2.8t
guys who have a 50k warrantee and a 60k timing belt change interval. Belts
are known to let go at 55k, lunching both heads to the tune of $2500-4000.
Any support from VAG? Nope.

Nice cars, always. Tough to keep running though.

>From: "Burgess, Michael L." <(email redacted)>
>To: "'Shepherd, Mike'" <(email redacted)>,Chris Robertson
><(email redacted)>,K G <(email redacted)>, miata
><(email redacted)>
>Subject: RE: Life beyond Miata? New car options...
>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:24:42 -0400
>
>You guys,
>
>What about buying a VW R32 (golf/gti) and putting on that dual turbo system
>that makes 550hp and 0-60 in 3.2 seconds? 1/4 mile in 11.xx seconds. And
>has the quattro that punishes the turns?
>
>Excellent track car, no?
>
>Daily driveable too--
>
>-Mike
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Shepherd, Mike [mailto:(email redacted)]
>Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 8:41 AM
>To: Chris Robertson; K G; miata
>Subject: RE: Life beyond Miata? New car options...
>
>
>Along those lines if you are looking late model, stick with the 996 or
>earlier. The 997 (along with practially every other Porsche made in the
>past couple years) is having horrible QC and reliability issues right
>now. Take a browse through the forum at rennlist.com before buyng any
>of those cars. Great performance cars? Yes. Put together well lately?
>No. Costly to repair? Yes.
>
>Mike
>91 Miata turbo
>99 Miata
>02 Nissan
>04 Porsche
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Chris Robertson [mailto:(email redacted)]
>Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 11:51 PM
>To: K G; miata
>Subject: Re: Life beyond Miata? New car options...
>
>(If you are interested in the 911, read on 'cause there is good info
>below)
>
>KG, that's a 20 year old car. It's unfortunate that you had so much go
>wrong with yours. Your 930 Turbo was mid to late 1980s, right? That is
>four generations ago and probably the worst in 911 reliabilty. The mid
>to late 80s sucked for quality cars in general. It's a very short
>list...all I can think of is the 1st gen RX-7.
>
>The 996 is several orders of magnitude better in performance and
>reliability than the 930. BTW, 911s have been watercooled since the
>996 came out. Here's a 911 timeline to put it in perspective, with NADA
>values (range is from base model to Turbo):
>930- 1984-1989 $15-47K
>964- 1989-1993 $18-55K
>993- 1994-1998 $30-70K
>996- 1998-2004/5 $35-110K
>997- 2005+ $70+
>
>Truism: "The newest 911 is the best 911." Some people love certain
>years or body styles, and that's one reason why the sexy 993 series has
>held its value so well. But the Porsche engineers improve the car some
>every year and a lot with each new generation. For this reason, any
>911 "buying guide" will tell you to buy the newest 911 that you can
>afford, as it is the best. Previous bugs are worked out, reliablility,
>power, handling, and day to day usability is improved.
>
>Currently, 996 pricing has hit an amazing low. There are more cars for
>sale than buyers that are looking for them. You can get a 996 for the
>same price or cheaper than a 993! This phenomenon has had much
>discussion on the Porsche forums and it appears the reason for the 996
>buyer's market is severalfold: The new 997 just came out so people are
>"upgrading;" many cars are coming off lease at this point in time;
>Porsche made more of the 996 than any 911 in history so there is a large
>supply; 911 diehard fans hate the 996 Boxster-esque headlights; the
>economy is such that people can't afford to pay their $75K+ monthly car
>payment; and finally the exotic sports car market is suffering so fewer
>buyers than sellers. Whatever the reason, finally a regular joe can
>afford to get one of these amazing cars for almost half the original
>sticker price. If you look hard enough, you can find one with low miles
>for under $40K. The opportunity is unusual and may or may not last. I
>found a gem of a car, a 2001 911 Turbo with 17K pampered miles, extended
>warranty, and $25K worth of options. I paid half its original sticker
>price and $15K under book value. I never dreamed of owning such a car
>just 1-2 years ago. :) :) :)
>
>
>--- K G <(email redacted)> wrote:
>
> > Let's see...
> >
> > Had mine a month...spun a rod bearing...blew the engine..$14K rebuild.
>
> > Then...new turbo (tried rebuilding the old one twice)...then, new
> > clutch, replaced exhaust...converted A/C to new type...broken
> > this...broken that...
> >
> > Over about 5 years..I had to drop about $30K on a car I paid $25K
> > for...
> >
> > I'm in deep debt due to the 930...trying to dig my way out. Fun car to
>
> > drive when it works..but, every time to the shop was pretty much like
> > $4k-$5K.
> >
> > You only had 9 quarts of oil? I think mine (rest its
> > soul) took about 14 quarts of oil on an oil change...is yours not air
> > cooled engine?
> >
> > Hey, they're fun cars...but, you do have to be able to afford them. If
>
> > I could afford a true exotic again...I think I'd go for the
> > Viper...just my humble opinion.
> >
> > I'm really excited about getting a miata and turboing it...from what I
>
> > drove..thing handles about as well as a Porsche, probably as fast as
> > mine was...and more reliable and less costly to repair. I know friends
>
> > with newer Porsches...costly repairs at regular intervals are about
> > par for them too. Maybe you got lucky and got one that is uniquely
> > well 'behaved'?
> >
> > :-)
> >
> > Just my experience.
> >
> > Kelly
> >
> > --- Chris Robertson <(email redacted)> wrote:
> >
> > > Larry, you're way off. Tracking puts a lot more wear on cars than
> > > daily driving. A set of pads may last one track event. But fine,
> > > I'll play your way. A street 911 may need new shocks after 150K
> > > miles.
> > > Change the oil yourself every 15,000 miles: filter $12, 9 quarts of
> > > Mobil 1 $60. Brake pads every 25-30K $150 front pair. It's more
> > > than a Miata. But it's no Lamboghini or Ferrari needing frequent
> > > maintenance, rebuilds or insanely expensive parts.
> > > Take care of it
> > > with plenty of "mechanical empathy" and it will last a long time
> > > with infrequent needs. My point is that it's a helluva car for
> > > $40K. It does everything well. I began to understand this about a
> > > year ago and now I own one. I still love Miatas too.
> > >
> >
> > Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear
> > bright, until you hear them speak....
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________
> > Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
> > store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/
> >
>
>
>______________________________________________________________________
>This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
>For more information please visit messagelabs.com/email
>
>
>______________________________________________________________________
>This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
>This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are
>solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
>If you
>have received this e-mail in error, please notify
>(email redacted).
>____________________________________________________________________

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Burgess, Michael L." <(email redacted)>

I had better luck with my TDI, but ultimately sold it b/c it was too small
for my daily tastes.

The intake gumming is definitely a bad design but can be avoided with a CCV
filter and such..but should you have to do that to a stock car? No.

I'd own another VW.

It seems you share the same tastes of VW as Ackley (I think he had a GTI
that was a POS)

-Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert M [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 7:13 PM
To: (email redacted); (email redacted);
(email redacted); (email redacted); (email redacted)
Subject: RE: Life beyond Miata? New car options...



If my recent VW experience is any indication I'd rather eat a dog crap
sandwich than buy a current VW product. Piddly crap always going wrong.
AC compressor at 40k, MAF at 65k ($400 for that gem at the dealer, part
only). Plenty of interior plastic faults. PCV/EGR soup gumming up the
intake (TDI). Alternator at 105k ($600-800 job at the dealer). Battery at

~90k. It's my ex's. Now she's my ex I predict she dumps it within the
year 'cause she sure as hell can't afford to maintain it.

Check the Audi lists, too- full of angry former customers, like the 2.8t
guys who have a 50k warrantee and a 60k timing belt change interval. Belts
are known to let go at 55k, lunching both heads to the tune of $2500-4000.
Any support from VAG? Nope.

Nice cars, always. Tough to keep running though.

>From: "Burgess, Michael L." <(email redacted)>
>To: "'Shepherd, Mike'" <(email redacted)>,Chris Robertson
><(email redacted)>,K G <(email redacted)>, miata
><(email redacted)>
>Subject: RE: Life beyond Miata? New car options...
>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:24:42 -0400
>
>You guys,
>
>What about buying a VW R32 (golf/gti) and putting on that dual turbo system
>that makes 550hp and 0-60 in 3.2 seconds? 1/4 mile in 11.xx seconds. And
>has the quattro that punishes the turns?
>
>Excellent track car, no?
>
>Daily driveable too--
>
>-Mike
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Shepherd, Mike [mailto:(email redacted)]
>Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 8:41 AM
>To: Chris Robertson; K G; miata
>Subject: RE: Life beyond Miata? New car options...
>
>
>Along those lines if you are looking late model, stick with the 996 or
>earlier. The 997 (along with practially every other Porsche made in the
>past couple years) is having horrible QC and reliability issues right
>now. Take a browse through the forum at rennlist.com before buyng any
>of those cars. Great performance cars? Yes. Put together well lately?
>No. Costly to repair? Yes.
>
>Mike
>91 Miata turbo
>99 Miata
>02 Nissan
>04 Porsche
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Chris Robertson [mailto:(email redacted)]
>Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 11:51 PM
>To: K G; miata
>Subject: Re: Life beyond Miata? New car options...
>
>(If you are interested in the 911, read on 'cause there is good info
>below)
>
>KG, that's a 20 year old car. It's unfortunate that you had so much go
>wrong with yours. Your 930 Turbo was mid to late 1980s, right? That is
>four generations ago and probably the worst in 911 reliabilty. The mid
>to late 80s sucked for quality cars in general. It's a very short
>list...all I can think of is the 1st gen RX-7.
>
>The 996 is several orders of magnitude better in performance and
>reliability than the 930. BTW, 911s have been watercooled since the
>996 came out. Here's a 911 timeline to put it in perspective, with NADA
>values (range is from base model to Turbo):
>930- 1984-1989 $15-47K
>964- 1989-1993 $18-55K
>993- 1994-1998 $30-70K
>996- 1998-2004/5 $35-110K
>997- 2005+ $70+
>
>Truism: "The newest 911 is the best 911." Some people love certain
>years or body styles, and that's one reason why the sexy 993 series has
>held its value so well. But the Porsche engineers improve the car some
>every year and a lot with each new generation. For this reason, any
>911 "buying guide" will tell you to buy the newest 911 that you can
>afford, as it is the best. Previous bugs are worked out, reliablility,
>power, handling, and day to day usability is improved.
>
>Currently, 996 pricing has hit an amazing low. There are more cars for
>sale than buyers that are looking for them. You can get a 996 for the
>same price or cheaper than a 993! This phenomenon has had much
>discussion on the Porsche forums and it appears the reason for the 996
>buyer's market is severalfold: The new 997 just came out so people are
>"upgrading;" many cars are coming off lease at this point in time;
>Porsche made more of the 996 than any 911 in history so there is a large
>supply; 911 diehard fans hate the 996 Boxster-esque headlights; the
>economy is such that people can't afford to pay their $75K+ monthly car
>payment; and finally the exotic sports car market is suffering so fewer
>buyers than sellers. Whatever the reason, finally a regular joe can
>afford to get one of these amazing cars for almost half the original
>sticker price. If you look hard enough, you can find one with low miles
>for under $40K. The opportunity is unusual and may or may not last. I
>found a gem of a car, a 2001 911 Turbo with 17K pampered miles, extended
>warranty, and $25K worth of options. I paid half its original sticker
>price and $15K under book value. I never dreamed of owning such a car
>just 1-2 years ago. :) :) :)
>
>
>--- K G <(email redacted)> wrote:
>
> > Let's see...
> >
> > Had mine a month...spun a rod bearing...blew the engine..$14K rebuild.
>
> > Then...new turbo (tried rebuilding the old one twice)...then, new
> > clutch, replaced exhaust...converted A/C to new type...broken
> > this...broken that...
> >
> > Over about 5 years..I had to drop about $30K on a car I paid $25K
> > for...
> >
> > I'm in deep debt due to the 930...trying to dig my way out. Fun car to
>
> > drive when it works..but, every time to the shop was pretty much like
> > $4k-$5K.
> >
> > You only had 9 quarts of oil? I think mine (rest its
> > soul) took about 14 quarts of oil on an oil change...is yours not air
> > cooled engine?
> >
> > Hey, they're fun cars...but, you do have to be able to afford them. If
>
> > I could afford a true exotic again...I think I'd go for the
> > Viper...just my humble opinion.
> >
> > I'm really excited about getting a miata and turboing it...from what I
>
> > drove..thing handles about as well as a Porsche, probably as fast as
> > mine was...and more reliable and less costly to repair. I know friends
>
> > with newer Porsches...costly repairs at regular intervals are about
> > par for them too. Maybe you got lucky and got one that is uniquely
> > well 'behaved'?
> >
> > :-)
> >
> > Just my experience.
> >
> > Kelly
> >
> > --- Chris Robertson <(email redacted)> wrote:
> >
> > > Larry, you're way off. Tracking puts a lot more wear on cars than
> > > daily driving. A set of pads may last one track event. But fine,
> > > I'll play your way. A street 911 may need new shocks after 150K
> > > miles.
> > > Change the oil yourself every 15,000 miles: filter $12, 9 quarts of
> > > Mobil 1 $60. Brake pads every 25-30K $150 front pair. It's more
> > > than a Miata. But it's no Lamboghini or Ferrari needing frequent
> > > maintenance, rebuilds or insanely expensive parts.
> > > Take care of it
> > > with plenty of "mechanical empathy" and it will last a long time
> > > with infrequent needs. My point is that it's a helluva car for
> > > $40K. It does everything well. I began to understand this about a
> > > year ago and now I own one. I still love Miatas too.
> > >
> >
> > Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear
> > bright, until you hear them speak....
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________
> > Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
> > store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/
> >
>
>
>______________________________________________________________________
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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Robert M" <(email redacted)>


Ah, well..... part of my bitterness is that I'm really a VW fan. My 85
GLI was bombproof. My 87 16v was one of the funnest cars I've owned-
fabulous engine note. My current winter car is an 87 Audi 4000 Quattro;
it's one of the best snow cars ever, fitted from the factory with a cockpit
control that allows the driver to lock the center or center and rear
differentials. With snowtires it's unstoppable in up to ~12" of snow. This
one just turned 100k miles; I donated my last one at 215k, mostly because it
was too freaking rusty.

My buddy Cameron bought a VR6 Passat wagon party on my recommendation,
and has had no end of trouble with it. Only the front passenger window
works now, needed a new radiator, no AC, weird coil troubles, blahblahblah.
The underlying mechanical stuff for the most part is as solid as it gets,
but the electrical and other ancillary systems aren't as good.


>From: "Burgess, Michael L." <(email redacted)>


>Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 09:11:56 -0400
>
>I had better luck with my TDI, but ultimately sold it b/c it was too small
>for my daily tastes.
>
>The intake gumming is definitely a bad design but can be avoided with a CCV
>filter and such..but should you have to do that to a stock car? No.
>
>I'd own another VW.
>
>It seems you share the same tastes of VW as Ackley (I think he had a GTI
>that was a POS)
>
>-Mike
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Robert M [mailto:(email redacted)]


>
>If my recent VW experience is any indication I'd rather eat a dog crap
>sandwich than buy a current VW product.

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)


In a message dated 9/16/2005 10:28:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
(email redacted) writes:

Ah, well..... part of my bitterness is that I'm really a VW fan. My 85
GLI was bombproof. My 87 16v was one of the funnest cars I've owned-
fabulous engine note. My current winter car is an 87 Audi 4000 Quattro;
it's one of the best snow cars ever, fitted from the factory with a cockpit
control that allows the driver to lock the center or center and rear
differentials. With snowtires it's unstoppable in up to ~12" of snow. This
one just turned 100k miles; I donated my last one at 215k, mostly because it
was too freaking rusty.



I had a VW Rabbit pickup in the early 1980's which had to be the best
handling stock pickup ever...
Comfort, utility, and handling - a neat combination! Engine seized on me
somewhere around the 90k mark - oil pump failure at speed on the highway. I
really liked that pickup. It wasn't a low-rider but was the lowest riding
pickup I ever saw on stock springs. I sold it to a guy who towed it to Colorado.

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Tim South" <(email redacted)>

Robert,

Are you saying you've never had any CIS, window regulator/switch, or door
handle issues with the 4000? I don't believe you! :-)

Tim S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert M" <(email redacted)>
To: <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 10:26 AM
Subject: RE: Life beyond Miata? New car options...


>
> Ah, well..... part of my bitterness is that I'm really a VW fan. My 85
> GLI was bombproof. My 87 16v was one of the funnest cars I've owned-
> fabulous engine note. My current winter car is an 87 Audi 4000 Quattro;
> it's one of the best snow cars ever, fitted from the factory with a
cockpit
> control that allows the driver to lock the center or center and rear
> differentials. With snowtires it's unstoppable in up to ~12" of snow.
This
> one just turned 100k miles; I donated my last one at 215k, mostly because
it
> was too freaking rusty.
>
> My buddy Cameron bought a VR6 Passat wagon party on my recommendation,
> and has had no end of trouble with it. Only the front passenger window
> works now, needed a new radiator, no AC, weird coil troubles,
blahblahblah.
> The underlying mechanical stuff for the most part is as solid as it gets,
> but the electrical and other ancillary systems aren't as good.
>
>
> >From: "Burgess, Michael L." <(email redacted)>
>
>
> >Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 09:11:56 -0400
> >
> >I had better luck with my TDI, but ultimately sold it b/c it was too
small
> >for my daily tastes.
> >
> >The intake gumming is definitely a bad design but can be avoided with a
CCV
> >filter and such..but should you have to do that to a stock car? No.
> >
> >I'd own another VW.
> >
> >It seems you share the same tastes of VW as Ackley (I think he had a GTI
> >that was a POS)
> >
> >-Mike
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Robert M [mailto:(email redacted)]
>
>
> >
> >If my recent VW experience is any indication I'd rather eat a dog crap
> >sandwich than buy a current VW product.
>
>
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Robert M" <(email redacted)>


No CIS issues, no window regulator issues. Door handles: well, yeah. These
are things I expect from a 17 year old car. A 4 year old car? No way.

>From: "Tim South" <(email redacted)>
>To: "Robert M" <(email redacted)>,
><(email redacted)>, <(email redacted)>
>Subject: Re: Life beyond Miata? New car options...
>Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 17:26:15 -0400
>
>Robert,
>
>Are you saying you've never had any CIS, window regulator/switch, or door
>handle issues with the 4000? I don't believe you! :-)
>
>Tim S.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Robert M" <(email redacted)>
>To: <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
>Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 10:26 AM
>Subject: RE: Life beyond Miata? New car options...
>
>
> >
> > Ah, well..... part of my bitterness is that I'm really a VW fan. My
>85
> > GLI was bombproof. My 87 16v was one of the funnest cars I've owned-
> > fabulous engine note. My current winter car is an 87 Audi 4000
>Quattro;
> > it's one of the best snow cars ever, fitted from the factory with a
>cockpit
> > control that allows the driver to lock the center or center and rear
> > differentials. With snowtires it's unstoppable in up to ~12" of snow.
>This
> > one just turned 100k miles; I donated my last one at 215k, mostly
>because
>it
> > was too freaking rusty.
> >
> > My buddy Cameron bought a VR6 Passat wagon party on my
>recommendation,
> > and has had no end of trouble with it. Only the front passenger window
> > works now, needed a new radiator, no AC, weird coil troubles,
>blahblahblah.
> > The underlying mechanical stuff for the most part is as solid as it
>gets,
> > but the electrical and other ancillary systems aren't as good.
> >
> >
> > >From: "Burgess, Michael L." <(email redacted)>
> >
> >
> > >Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 09:11:56 -0400
> > >
> > >I had better luck with my TDI, but ultimately sold it b/c it was too
>small
> > >for my daily tastes.
> > >
> > >The intake gumming is definitely a bad design but can be avoided with a
>CCV
> > >filter and such..but should you have to do that to a stock car? No.
> > >
> > >I'd own another VW.
> > >
> > >It seems you share the same tastes of VW as Ackley (I think he had a
>GTI
> > >that was a POS)
> > >
> > >-Mike
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: Robert M [mailto:(email redacted)]
> >
> >
> > >
> > >If my recent VW experience is any indication I'd rather eat a dog crap
> > >sandwich than buy a current VW product.
> >
> >
> >
>
>