Miatapower List Archive

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Shiv Pathak" <(email redacted)>


Hi guys,

As some may know, Jackson Racing/Moss Motors was generous enough to loan me
their own supercharged M2 company car to screw around with while my
theft-recovered and stripped M2 is being put back together. The intent was
to start where my car left off in the engine management tuning process. The
current configuration is identical to my car, pre-theft. The only difference
being the addition of the new JR water-to-air IC, which I finally got around
to test the other night with the help of local nice guy and horsepower
junky, Scott MacLean.

We ran tests in both with-IC and without-IC configurations for both MAP
(manifold abolute pressure) and MAT (manifold air temp). From this, one can
calculate pressue drop and intercooler cooling efficiency. All sensor data
was logged by the TEC-II computer which is currently installed on the car.
All testing was conducted during the same night with virtually identical
conditions.

Ambient temps were 50F
Supercharger inlet temps were 100F

Test consisted of a wide open throttle 4th gear run from 3000rpm to 7000rpm.
This would provide the worst possible case scenario for intake temps. Far
hotter than a simple 2nd gear run due to sustained engine load.

Here is the raw data:

MAP (kPa) MAT (deg F)
RPM IC No IC IC No IC
3500 166 161 151 108
4000 162 158 163 117
4500 154 152 169 124
5000 149 147 174 131
5500 151 144 181 136
6000 150 147 185 144
6500 158 151 196 153
7000 160 156 208 163

For total pressure drop, we're looking at .5-1psi-- some of which is caused
by the increase in air density with no change in mass air flow. Perhaps some
with better thermo skills than me could calculate the density related
component of the total pressure drop. I imagine that the restriction-induced
pressure drop should be pretty small.

As the results show, the intake temp reduction is nice and should get better
in higher boost application where the delta-T is greater. A well-designed
cold air intake should also help out There's really no good reason to have
100F sc inlet temps when ambient temps are 50F. Getting that air filter away
from the header will help. I did this on my own SC'd car a while back was
rewarded with 20-30 degree lower sc inlet temps and slightly lower sc outlet
temps.

I'll be dynoing the car soon and will update the forum with the results.
Without the IC but with the same pulley arrangement my old car dyno'd at 196
wheel hp. I suspect the presence of the IC will allow me to tune a bit more
aggressively -- hopefully cracking the 200rwhp mark with just 6pi of boost.
But I suspect the bigger gains won't be realized until the blower is spun
harder-- something that wasn't feasible without some form of charge cooling.

The car drives really well with excellent power response. It certainly feels
more peppy with the IC. Can't really identify any downside other than more
underhood whine (from the water pump). But it's hardly objectionable.

Cheers,
shiv

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: J Bobowski <(email redacted)>


I think your labels are backwards for I/C & No I/C. At
least I hope so.

--- Shiv Pathak <(email redacted)> wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
>
> As some may know, Jackson Racing/Moss Motors was
> generous enough to loan me
> their own supercharged M2 company car to screw
> around with while my
> theft-recovered and stripped M2 is being put back
> together. The intent was
> to start where my car left off in the engine
> management tuning process. The
> current configuration is identical to my car,
> pre-theft. The only difference
> being the addition of the new JR water-to-air IC,
> which I finally got around
> to test the other night with the help of local nice
> guy and horsepower
> junky, Scott MacLean.
>
> We ran tests in both with-IC and without-IC
> configurations for both MAP
> (manifold abolute pressure) and MAT (manifold air
> temp). From this, one can
> calculate pressue drop and intercooler cooling
> efficiency. All sensor data
> was logged by the TEC-II computer which is currently
> installed on the car.
> All testing was conducted during the same night with
> virtually identical
> conditions.
>
> Ambient temps were 50F
> Supercharger inlet temps were 100F
>
> Test consisted of a wide open throttle 4th gear run
> from 3000rpm to 7000rpm.
> This would provide the worst possible case scenario
> for intake temps. Far
> hotter than a simple 2nd gear run due to sustained
> engine load.
>
> Here is the raw data:
>
> MAP (kPa) MAT (deg F)
> RPM IC No IC IC No IC
> 3500 166 161 151 108
> 4000 162 158 163 117
> 4500 154 152 169 124
> 5000 149 147 174 131
> 5500 151 144 181 136
> 6000 150 147 185 144
> 6500 158 151 196 153
> 7000 160 156 208 163
>
> For total pressure drop, we're looking at .5-1psi--
> some of which is caused
> by the increase in air density with no change in
> mass air flow. Perhaps some
> with better thermo skills than me could calculate
> the density related
> component of the total pressure drop. I imagine that
> the restriction-induced
> pressure drop should be pretty small.
>
> As the results show, the intake temp reduction is
> nice and should get better
> in higher boost application where the delta-T is
> greater. A well-designed
> cold air intake should also help out There's really
> no good reason to have
> 100F sc inlet temps when ambient temps are 50F.
> Getting that air filter away
> from the header will help. I did this on my own SC'd
> car a while back was
> rewarded with 20-30 degree lower sc inlet temps and
> slightly lower sc outlet
> temps.
>
> I'll be dynoing the car soon and will update the
> forum with the results.
> Without the IC but with the same pulley arrangement
> my old car dyno'd at 196
> wheel hp. I suspect the presence of the IC will
> allow me to tune a bit more
> aggressively -- hopefully cracking the 200rwhp mark
> with just 6pi of boost.
> But I suspect the bigger gains won't be realized
> until the blower is spun
> harder-- something that wasn't feasible without some
> form of charge cooling.
>
> The car drives really well with excellent power
> response. It certainly feels
> more peppy with the IC. Can't really identify any
> downside other than more
> underhood whine (from the water pump). But it's
> hardly objectionable.
>
> Cheers,
> shiv


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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)


Am I reading it wrong or are those temp drop numbers on the IC not near as
good as Jackson Racing has advertised?

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Shiv Pathak [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 2:24 AM
To: power
Subject: JR IC test results



Hi guys,

As some may know, Jackson Racing/Moss Motors was generous enough to loan me
their own supercharged M2 company car to screw around with while my
theft-recovered and stripped M2 is being put back together. The intent was
to start where my car left off in the engine management tuning process. The
current configuration is identical to my car, pre-theft. The only difference
being the addition of the new JR water-to-air IC, which I finally got around
to test the other night with the help of local nice guy and horsepower
junky, Scott MacLean.

We ran tests in both with-IC and without-IC configurations for both MAP
(manifold abolute pressure) and MAT (manifold air temp). From this, one can
calculate pressue drop and intercooler cooling efficiency. All sensor data
was logged by the TEC-II computer which is currently installed on the car.
All testing was conducted during the same night with virtually identical
conditions.

Ambient temps were 50F
Supercharger inlet temps were 100F

Test consisted of a wide open throttle 4th gear run from 3000rpm to 7000rpm.
This would provide the worst possible case scenario for intake temps. Far
hotter than a simple 2nd gear run due to sustained engine load.

Here is the raw data:

MAP (kPa) MAT (deg F)
RPM IC No IC IC No IC
3500 166 161 151 108
4000 162 158 163 117
4500 154 152 169 124
5000 149 147 174 131
5500 151 144 181 136
6000 150 147 185 144
6500 158 151 196 153
7000 160 156 208 163

For total pressure drop, we're looking at .5-1psi-- some of which is caused
by the increase in air density with no change in mass air flow. Perhaps some
with better thermo skills than me could calculate the density related
component of the total pressure drop. I imagine that the restriction-induced
pressure drop should be pretty small.

As the results show, the intake temp reduction is nice and should get better
in higher boost application where the delta-T is greater. A well-designed
cold air intake should also help out There's really no good reason to have
100F sc inlet temps when ambient temps are 50F. Getting that air filter away
from the header will help. I did this on my own SC'd car a while back was
rewarded with 20-30 degree lower sc inlet temps and slightly lower sc outlet
temps.

I'll be dynoing the car soon and will update the forum with the results.
Without the IC but with the same pulley arrangement my old car dyno'd at 196
wheel hp. I suspect the presence of the IC will allow me to tune a bit more
aggressively -- hopefully cracking the 200rwhp mark with just 6pi of boost.
But I suspect the bigger gains won't be realized until the blower is spun
harder-- something that wasn't feasible without some form of charge cooling.

The car drives really well with excellent power response. It certainly feels
more peppy with the IC. Can't really identify any downside other than more
underhood whine (from the water pump). But it's hardly objectionable.

Cheers,
shiv

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Mark Peugeot <(email redacted)>




On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, J Bobowski wrote:

>
> I think your labels are backwards for I/C & No I/C. At
> least I hope so.
>
No, It's a jackson racing product, its supposed to be that way. :) Their
new interheater technology. :)

Mark

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)


In a message dated 18/04/2001 15:57:51 GMT Daylight Time,
(email redacted) writes:

<< Am I reading it wrong or are those temp drop numbers on the IC not near as
good as Jackson Racing has advertised? >>

I can't believe you are suggesting that JR would ever release misleading
figures about anything!! :o)

Si.

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Shiv Pathak" <(email redacted)>


Oops.. correct. "IC" and "No IC" numbers are backwards.

As for advertised temp drop, I believe JR tested the IC at ~10psi when
outlet temps were a good deal hotter. It makes sense that a greater delta-T
will lead to larger temp reduction. Could probably see as high as a 100F
temp drop if you spin that blower fast enough.

Cheers,
shiv

----------
>From: J Bobowski <(email redacted)>
>To: Shiv Pathak <(email redacted)>, power <(email redacted)>
>Subject: Re: JR IC test results
>Date: Wed, Apr 18, 2001, 6:35 AM
>

>
> I think your labels are backwards for I/C & No I/C. At
> least I hope so.
>
> --- Shiv Pathak <(email redacted)> wrote:
>>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> As some may know, Jackson Racing/Moss Motors was
>> generous enough to loan me
>> their own supercharged M2 company car to screw
>> around with while my
>> theft-recovered and stripped M2 is being put back
>> together. The intent was
>> to start where my car left off in the engine
>> management tuning process. The
>> current configuration is identical to my car,
>> pre-theft. The only difference
>> being the addition of the new JR water-to-air IC,
>> which I finally got around
>> to test the other night with the help of local nice
>> guy and horsepower
>> junky, Scott MacLean.
>>
>> We ran tests in both with-IC and without-IC
>> configurations for both MAP
>> (manifold abolute pressure) and MAT (manifold air
>> temp). From this, one can
>> calculate pressue drop and intercooler cooling
>> efficiency. All sensor data
>> was logged by the TEC-II computer which is currently
>> installed on the car.
>> All testing was conducted during the same night with
>> virtually identical
>> conditions.
>>
>> Ambient temps were 50F
>> Supercharger inlet temps were 100F
>>
>> Test consisted of a wide open throttle 4th gear run
>> from 3000rpm to 7000rpm.
>> This would provide the worst possible case scenario
>> for intake temps. Far
>> hotter than a simple 2nd gear run due to sustained
>> engine load.
>>
>> Here is the raw data:
>>
>> MAP (kPa) MAT (deg F)
>> RPM IC No IC IC No IC
>> 3500 166 161 151 108
>> 4000 162 158 163 117
>> 4500 154 152 169 124
>> 5000 149 147 174 131
>> 5500 151 144 181 136
>> 6000 150 147 185 144
>> 6500 158 151 196 153
>> 7000 160 156 208 163
>>
>> For total pressure drop, we're looking at .5-1psi--
>> some of which is caused
>> by the increase in air density with no change in
>> mass air flow. Perhaps some
>> with better thermo skills than me could calculate
>> the density related
>> component of the total pressure drop. I imagine that
>> the restriction-induced
>> pressure drop should be pretty small.
>>
>> As the results show, the intake temp reduction is
>> nice and should get better
>> in higher boost application where the delta-T is
>> greater. A well-designed
>> cold air intake should also help out There's really
>> no good reason to have
>> 100F sc inlet temps when ambient temps are 50F.
>> Getting that air filter away
>> from the header will help. I did this on my own SC'd
>> car a while back was
>> rewarded with 20-30 degree lower sc inlet temps and
>> slightly lower sc outlet
>> temps.
>>
>> I'll be dynoing the car soon and will update the
>> forum with the results.
>> Without the IC but with the same pulley arrangement
>> my old car dyno'd at 196
>> wheel hp. I suspect the presence of the IC will
>> allow me to tune a bit more
>> aggressively -- hopefully cracking the 200rwhp mark
>> with just 6pi of boost.
>> But I suspect the bigger gains won't be realized
>> until the blower is spun
>> harder-- something that wasn't feasible without some
>> form of charge cooling.
>>
>> The car drives really well with excellent power
>> response. It certainly feels
>> more peppy with the IC. Can't really identify any
>> downside other than more
>> underhood whine (from the water pump). But it's
>> hardly objectionable.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> shiv
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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> Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
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