Miatapower List Archive

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Mail From: "Ross Kuhns" <(email redacted)>


Powermongers,

Here's a very nice message I got from John at J&S. Wow, talk about a vendor
willing to work to make a better product! He's in the Bill C realm here.
I'm going to send him my early model J&S unit after my SCCA autox this
sunday to get it modded and see how it works/evaluate.
I've traded a few emails with him, I'd like the input from more
knowledgeable people...what would be the ideal set up that he could run for
all miatas?
10 or 20 degrees total timing out? He can mod mine to do either.
What else would you add/delete from the list?

Input is appreciated!


Ross
*Tom Graham sent it to SCCOR I believe, he said Dick Bipes (of MSD Bipes mod
fame, which Tom gave him the idea for) was excited enough to offer to stop
doing his mods if it works.

----original message--- can't find my reply! Ross

Dear Ross:

My name is John Pizzuto. I am the designer of the J&S SafeGuard
knock control
unit. I finally got internet access last month and started
reading the posts on
the Miata forum. I see that some people are having trouble
adjusting the
sensitivity on the unit. We have been selling to the Miata
market since late
1994. I'm distressed that some have apparently disconnected the
unit. These
are my babies. They are all "designer built" (I solder them
myself). I also
read about the "Bipes" mod to the MSD. Since the SafeGuard
uses a Motorola
68HC11 micro controller with EEprom, it allows for program
modifications.

1) Customer can now specifiy minimum RPM to begin listening.
It is presently
set at 1250 RPM. I saw in a post from Bill Cardell at Dealer
Alternative that
3800 RPM would be his minimum.

2) Help out the knock sensor by taking out some timing before
the engine starts
knocking. Apparently, it takes more retard to make the ping go
away than it
does to prevent it in the first place. This phenomenom is
called knock
hysteresis.

Beginning at 4500 RPM, the new software retards one degree per
hundred RPM until
a maximum of six degrees is achieved at 5100 RPM if the Mass Air
Flow voltage
>TBD on a 1.8L, or <TBD on a 1.6L. (TBD means to be
determined). This could be
specified by the customer, or we could use the existing enable
voltages of >2.75
volts for a 1.8L or <0.8 volts for a 1.6L.

The beta version of this was designed for a Subaru Imprezza. I
used the
throttle position sensor instead of the mass airflow meter. The
TPS RPM Retard
Enable has a soft turn on. It interpolates the RPM retard
amount as the
throttle moves between 2.3 volts and 2.5 volts.

case 1: RPM>4500 and TPS<2.3 volts = no RPM retard
case 2: RPM=4600 and TPS>2.5 volts = 1° retard
case 3: RPM=4700 and TPS>2.5 volts = 2° retard
case 4: RPM=4800 and TPS>2.5 volts = 3° retard
case 5: RPM=4900 and TPS>2.5 volts = 4° retard
case 6: RPM=5000 and TPS>2.5 volts = 5° retard
case 7: RPM=5100 and TPS>2.5 volts = 6° retard (max)
case 8: RPM>5100 and 2.3 volts<TPS<2.5 volts = retard varies
with throttle from
1° to 6°

3) To prevent over retarding, we can reduce the maximum retard
amount per ping
from three increments to two increments. In the ten degree
range mode, each
increment is one degree. In the twenty degree mode, each
increment is two
degrees.

If we set aside the specific trip points for now, what do you
think of these
additions? If you like the idea, what settings would you like
to see on your
unit?

I'll re-program yours for free in exchange for your evaluation.

This should allow users to delete the MSD with Bipes mod, and
hopefully smooth
out the power curve on the dyno.

Since there are a few hundred units out there, I would have to
charge a $25.00
shipping and handling fee. Turn around time should be an hour
or less, unless
each customer wants a different set of values. I don't know how
easy that will
be. It would be nice if we could come up with settings that
most would be
satisfied with.

>From: "John Pizzuto" <(email redacted)>
>To: Ross Kuhns <(email redacted)>
>Subject: Re: J&S software mods
>Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 18:54:13 -0700
>
>Ross: With the exception of the 10°/20° range switch, I can add this to
>your
>old unit. The old ones are fixed at 20° of knock retard. If you want, I
>could
>fix it at 10° max control range. Remember, the RPM retard function is in
>addition to the knock control amount.
>
>I designed the new ones so that switch number 1 is the 10°/20° range
>switch.
>
>The software control strategy retards one, two, or three increments per
>ping,
>based on how big the detector thinks the ping is. In the 10° range, each
>increment is 1°. Double that for the 20° range.
>
>At the same time, it is constantly trying to re-advance at the rate of one
>increment every twenty revolutions.
>
>Let the word go forth. I have been holding back posting this info to the
>miata.net forum, thinking it was bad manners. Then I saw the post(ad) from
>Shiv
>and his TEC-II a few days ago. I decided that if I want to keep selling to
>the
>Miata guys I need to let them know about it.
>I'm still new at this, so I think it's cool getting emails
>
>John and Shirley Pizzuto
>J&S Electronics
>



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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Steven Searle" <(email redacted)>


This is a great idea. I hope it can be done to the really early units
(mine's about three years old). At the very least, it will allow me to run
more static timing (currently I'm at 6 degrees BTDC).

Here's my two cents worth:

Leave the range at 20 degrees. On some days, my J&S is removing 14-18
degrees of timing.

I'm not sure what the best 'trip' rpm would be - probably at the onset of
serious boost. To be safe, say 2,500 rpm. Others may know better.

The existing enable voltages should be fine, I would think.

Boy, I'm excited now. Congrats to John on his new 'surf'board. I remember
talking to him several years back about how he should get a net presence.
Now we'll all reap the benefits.

Steven Searle
'93 Greddy @ 12 psi


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ross Kuhns" <(email redacted)>
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2000 2:52 PM
Subject: Fwd: J&S software mods


> What else would you add/delete from the list?
>
> Input is appreciated!
>
> 1) Customer can now specifiy minimum RPM to begin listening.
> It is presently
> set at 1250 RPM. I saw in a post from Bill Cardell at Dealer
> Alternative that
> 3800 RPM would be his minimum.
>
> 2) Help out the knock sensor by taking out some timing before
> the engine starts
> knocking. Apparently, it takes more retard to make the ping go
> away than it
> does to prevent it in the first place. This phenomenom is
> called knock
> hysteresis.
>
> Beginning at 4500 RPM, the new software retards one degree per
> hundred RPM until
> a maximum of six degrees is achieved at 5100 RPM if the Mass Air
> Flow voltage
> >TBD on a 1.8L, or <TBD on a 1.6L. (TBD means to be
> determined). This could be
> specified by the customer, or we could use the existing enable
> voltages of >2.75
> volts for a 1.8L or <0.8 volts for a 1.6L.
>
> The beta version of this was designed for a Subaru Imprezza. I
> used the
> throttle position sensor instead of the mass airflow meter. The
> TPS RPM Retard
> Enable has a soft turn on. It interpolates the RPM retard
> amount as the
> throttle moves between 2.3 volts and 2.5 volts.
>
> case 1: RPM>4500 and TPS<2.3 volts = no RPM retard
> case 2: RPM=4600 and TPS>2.5 volts = 1° retard
> case 3: RPM=4700 and TPS>2.5 volts = 2° retard
> case 4: RPM=4800 and TPS>2.5 volts = 3° retard
> case 5: RPM=4900 and TPS>2.5 volts = 4° retard
> case 6: RPM=5000 and TPS>2.5 volts = 5° retard
> case 7: RPM=5100 and TPS>2.5 volts = 6° retard (max)
> case 8: RPM>5100 and 2.3 volts<TPS<2.5 volts = retard varies
> with throttle from
> 1° to 6°
>
> 3) To prevent over retarding, we can reduce the maximum retard
> amount per ping
> from three increments to two increments. In the ten degree
> range mode, each
> increment is one degree. In the twenty degree mode, each
> increment is two
> degrees.
>
> If we set aside the specific trip points for now, what do you
> think of these
> additions? If you like the idea, what settings would you like
> to see on your
> unit?
>
> I'll re-program yours for free in exchange for your evaluation.
>
> This should allow users to delete the MSD with Bipes mod, and
> hopefully smooth
> out the power curve on the dyno.
>
> Since there are a few hundred units out there, I would have to
> charge a $25.00
> shipping and handling fee. Turn around time should be an hour
> or less, unless
> each customer wants a different set of values. I don't know how
> easy that will
> be. It would be nice if we could come up with settings that
> most would be
> satisfied with.
>
> >From: "John Pizzuto" <(email redacted)>
> >To: Ross Kuhns <(email redacted)>
> >Subject: Re: J&S software mods
> >Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 18:54:13 -0700
> >
> >Ross: With the exception of the 10°/20° range switch, I can add this to
> >your
> >old unit. The old ones are fixed at 20° of knock retard. If you want, I
> >could
> >fix it at 10° max control range. Remember, the RPM retard function is in
> >addition to the knock control amount.
> >
> >I designed the new ones so that switch number 1 is the 10°/20° range
> >switch.
> >
> >The software control strategy retards one, two, or three increments per
> >ping,
> >based on how big the detector thinks the ping is. In the 10° range, each
> >increment is 1°. Double that for the 20° range.
> >
> >At the same time, it is constantly trying to re-advance at the rate of
one
> >increment every twenty revolutions.
> >
> >Let the word go forth. I have been holding back posting this info to the
> >miata.net forum, thinking it was bad manners. Then I saw the post(ad)
from
> >Shiv
> >and his TEC-II a few days ago. I decided that if I want to keep selling
to
> >the
> >Miata guys I need to let them know about it.
> >I'm still new at this, so I think it's cool getting emails
> >
> >John and Shirley Pizzuto
> >J&S Electronics
> >
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at hotmail.com
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Tom Graham" <(email redacted)>


----Original Message Follows----
From: "Ross Kuhns" <(email redacted)>


(of MSD Bipes mod fame, which Tom gave him the idea for)

Hi Ross,

I guess i'd better clear this up now. I had nothing to do with Dick's MSD
modification. I helped Dick with a lean problem by suggesting the resistor
trick to the water temp sensor which he ended up perfecting.

Tom



Tom Graham
4CED AIR 90
Columbus, Ohio
sebringmiata.com/tomt
Sebring w/7psi pulley/9psi mid-range, Home Made Water Injection, 1.8
injectors, HM CAI, 14* base timing/no controls, HM Bracing, 2.25" cat-back
exhaust, SP 8000, 1.8 Bigger Brakes on front

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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Ross Kuhns" <(email redacted)>


I'm easily confused! You have too many tips.


Sorry for mis-representing,


Ross

>From: "Tom Graham" <(email redacted)>
>Reply-To: "Tom Graham" <(email redacted)>
>To: (email redacted), (email redacted)
>Subject: Re: Fwd: J&S software mods
>Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 04:27:37 GMT
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "Ross Kuhns" <(email redacted)>
>
>
>(of MSD Bipes mod fame, which Tom gave him the idea for)
>
>Hi Ross,
>
>I guess i'd better clear this up now. I had nothing to do with Dick's MSD
>modification. I helped Dick with a lean problem by suggesting the resistor
>trick to the water temp sensor which he ended up perfecting.
>
>Tom
>
>
>
>Tom Graham
>4CED AIR 90
>Columbus, Ohio
>sebringmiata.com/tomt
>Sebring w/7psi pulley/9psi mid-range, Home Made Water Injection, 1.8
>injectors, HM CAI, 14* base timing/no controls, HM Bracing, 2.25" cat-back
>exhaust, SP 8000, 1.8 Bigger Brakes on front
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at hotmail.com
>

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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Ross Kuhns" <(email redacted)>


Steve,

Thanks for the input! Wow, taking out 14-18* is quite a lot. Are you getting
any over heating with that?
How about your air fuel ratio? Do you have a monitor?
My 4.1 turbo used to take out that much timing my first summer, I was
running lean.
I'm at 10* static timing running 1.8 injectors and a Walbro pump(it runs
rich) but the J&S shows one blip now and then, I use the extra fuel to cool.

As to the start monitor rpm, I don't know what's best. Your Greddy probably
makes boost a bit lower than my turbo, it's a pretty small turbo as I
recall. I think I'll try to get Corky direct, see what he says.

I'm thinking trip at 3,500 rpm's, start taking a degree per 100 rpm's at
4,500 until 6degrees at 5,100 (as John suggested) that should stop that lean
spot all the non FM ECU'd cars seem to hit at the hp/torque cross.

Cheers,

Ross
92 Yellow turbo

>From: "Steven Searle" <(email redacted)>
>To: "Ross Kuhns" <(email redacted)>, <(email redacted)>
>CC: <(email redacted)>
>Subject: Re: J&S software mods
>Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 18:33:48 -0600
>
>
>This is a great idea. I hope it can be done to the really early units
>(mine's about three years old). At the very least, it will allow me to run
>more static timing (currently I'm at 6 degrees BTDC).
>
>Here's my two cents worth:
>
>Leave the range at 20 degrees. On some days, my J&S is removing 14-18
>degrees of timing.
>
>I'm not sure what the best 'trip' rpm would be - probably at the onset of
>serious boost. To be safe, say 2,500 rpm. Others may know better.
>
>The existing enable voltages should be fine, I would think.
>
>Boy, I'm excited now. Congrats to John on his new 'surf'board. I remember
>talking to him several years back about how he should get a net presence.
>Now we'll all reap the benefits.
>
>Steven Searle
>'93 Greddy @ 12 psi
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ross Kuhns" <(email redacted)>
>Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2000 2:52 PM
>Subject: Fwd: J&S software mods
>
>
> > What else would you add/delete from the list?
> >
> > Input is appreciated!
> >
> > 1) Customer can now specifiy minimum RPM to begin listening.
> > It is presently
> > set at 1250 RPM. I saw in a post from Bill Cardell at Dealer
> > Alternative that
> > 3800 RPM would be his minimum.
> >
> > 2) Help out the knock sensor by taking out some timing before
> > the engine starts
> > knocking. Apparently, it takes more retard to make the ping go
> > away than it
> > does to prevent it in the first place. This phenomenom is
> > called knock
> > hysteresis.
> >
> > Beginning at 4500 RPM, the new software retards one degree per
> > hundred RPM until
> > a maximum of six degrees is achieved at 5100 RPM if the Mass Air
> > Flow voltage
> > >TBD on a 1.8L, or <TBD on a 1.6L. (TBD means to be
> > determined). This could be
> > specified by the customer, or we could use the existing enable
> > voltages of >2.75
> > volts for a 1.8L or <0.8 volts for a 1.6L.
> >
> > The beta version of this was designed for a Subaru Imprezza. I
> > used the
> > throttle position sensor instead of the mass airflow meter. The
> > TPS RPM Retard
> > Enable has a soft turn on. It interpolates the RPM retard
> > amount as the
> > throttle moves between 2.3 volts and 2.5 volts.
> >
> > case 1: RPM>4500 and TPS<2.3 volts = no RPM retard
> > case 2: RPM=4600 and TPS>2.5 volts = 1° retard
> > case 3: RPM=4700 and TPS>2.5 volts = 2° retard
> > case 4: RPM=4800 and TPS>2.5 volts = 3° retard
> > case 5: RPM=4900 and TPS>2.5 volts = 4° retard
> > case 6: RPM=5000 and TPS>2.5 volts = 5° retard
> > case 7: RPM=5100 and TPS>2.5 volts = 6° retard (max)
> > case 8: RPM>5100 and 2.3 volts<TPS<2.5 volts = retard varies
> > with throttle from
> > 1° to 6°
> >
> > 3) To prevent over retarding, we can reduce the maximum retard
> > amount per ping
> > from three increments to two increments. In the ten degree
> > range mode, each
> > increment is one degree. In the twenty degree mode, each
> > increment is two
> > degrees.
> >
> > If we set aside the specific trip points for now, what do you
> > think of these
> > additions? If you like the idea, what settings would you like
> > to see on your
> > unit?
> >
> > I'll re-program yours for free in exchange for your evaluation.
> >
> > This should allow users to delete the MSD with Bipes mod, and
> > hopefully smooth
> > out the power curve on the dyno.
> >
> > Since there are a few hundred units out there, I would have to
> > charge a $25.00
> > shipping and handling fee. Turn around time should be an hour
> > or less, unless
> > each customer wants a different set of values. I don't know how
> > easy that will
> > be. It would be nice if we could come up with settings that
> > most would be
> > satisfied with.
> >
> > >From: "John Pizzuto" <(email redacted)>
> > >To: Ross Kuhns <(email redacted)>
> > >Subject: Re: J&S software mods
> > >Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 18:54:13 -0700
> > >
> > >Ross: With the exception of the 10°/20° range switch, I can add this
>to
> > >your
> > >old unit. The old ones are fixed at 20° of knock retard. If you want,
>I
> > >could
> > >fix it at 10° max control range. Remember, the RPM retard function is
>in
> > >addition to the knock control amount.
> > >
> > >I designed the new ones so that switch number 1 is the 10°/20° range
> > >switch.
> > >
> > >The software control strategy retards one, two, or three increments per
> > >ping,
> > >based on how big the detector thinks the ping is. In the 10° range,
>each
> > >increment is 1°. Double that for the 20° range.
> > >
> > >At the same time, it is constantly trying to re-advance at the rate of
>one
> > >increment every twenty revolutions.
> > >
> > >Let the word go forth. I have been holding back posting this info to
>the
> > >miata.net forum, thinking it was bad manners. Then I saw the post(ad)
>from
> > >Shiv
> > >and his TEC-II a few days ago. I decided that if I want to keep
>selling
>to
> > >the
> > >Miata guys I need to let them know about it.
> > >I'm still new at this, so I think it's cool getting emails
> > >
> > >John and Shirley Pizzuto
> > >J&S Electronics
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________________
> > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at hotmail.com
> >
>

________________________________________________________________________
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