Miatapower List Archive

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Scott Wegener" <(email redacted)>


Jess, out of curiousity, what were the #s generated by MLL for the 'insanely
rich' run with the EGTs at 1300?

Scott

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jess Gypin" <(email redacted)>
To: <(email redacted)>
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 11:46 PM
Subject: I know what too rich looks like now :-)


>
> I have been playing more with fuel today. I saw the most dramatic change I
> have ever seen in EGT today. As many of you know, I have been trying to
get
> my arms around the knocking that is going on now with the warmer weather.
I
> have been playing with the timing and fuel. I added fuel to the 5 row in
> 555-570 because the O2 level was not as high as the previous logged values
> and I was getting some knock at the upper end. I know the O2 sensor does
not
> show you the real deal, but it is good for comparing levels in the same
> datalog.
>
> In the log previous to this one, I was showing 96 O2 tapering down to 91
at
> redline, EGT was at the upper end touching 1550 at the top of 4th. I
thought
> I should fatten up the fuel based on what I saw for knock and O2 drop
> combined. I added 3 points at 545-555 and then 5 points at 565-575. Then
> next datalog showed the O2 values had increased a little at the upper end
> and the curve was flatter, which is what I wanted. Here is the funny or
> weird part. I watched the EGT and it never went over 1300. I would get
1200
> at cruise, and 1300 at full boot. The car was running VERY rich according
to
> this, but no misfire at all. Id did still log knock, so the extra fuel did
> nothing for the knock. The datalog shows O2 readings of 93-96 in the areas
> that I added fuel. EGT says that the O2 was really fat, O2 sensor could
> hardly tell the difference.
>
> I am not sure where all of this is headed. I know that the EGTs that I am
> seeing with Shiv's rail compared to the power calc'd and felt is lower EGT
> and higher power. I would imagine that with perhaps all of the cylinders
> getting equal fuel, that changes made to the timing and fuel maps will now
> affect all cylinders equally. I am also finding that for my car, EGT in
the
> 1500-1550 range is about right for AF. More fuel seems to have a more
> dramatic affect on EGT than timing advance.
>
> No one has been able to explain to me how adding the fuel rail decreased
the
> engine "noise floor" that I had before that was supposed to be normal to
> virtually nothing there when it is not knocking. When I do get knock, or
> "noise", I can kill it by taking out timing and adding fuel. That would
make
> you want to think that it is detonation. One theory is misfire harmonics.
> The experience that I have had with changing maps to offset knock, and I
> have looked at PLENTY now, I think the Link sensor does a pretty darn good
> job of hearing knock. The noise signatures that I am seeing now are very
> pronounced and peaked in nature, and do not seem to have the gradual rise
to
> redline as before.
>
> I am wondering what Ray needs to make the temp compensation for hotter
> weather work better. I am still pulling timing and adding fuel to get rid
of
> some of the knock that I have now, and I know via the 1/2 dozen datalogs
> that I have taken that most of the knock is due to the warmer weather. I
> guess I am just running too close to the knock threshold for any headroom
> for warmer weather.
>
> Jess
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Jess Gypin" <(email redacted)>


I have been playing more with fuel today. I saw the most dramatic change I
have ever seen in EGT today. As many of you know, I have been trying to get
my arms around the knocking that is going on now with the warmer weather. I
have been playing with the timing and fuel. I added fuel to the 5 row in
555-570 because the O2 level was not as high as the previous logged values
and I was getting some knock at the upper end. I know the O2 sensor does not
show you the real deal, but it is good for comparing levels in the same
datalog.

In the log previous to this one, I was showing 96 O2 tapering down to 91 at
redline, EGT was at the upper end touching 1550 at the top of 4th. I thought
I should fatten up the fuel based on what I saw for knock and O2 drop
combined. I added 3 points at 545-555 and then 5 points at 565-575. Then
next datalog showed the O2 values had increased a little at the upper end
and the curve was flatter, which is what I wanted. Here is the funny or
weird part. I watched the EGT and it never went over 1300. I would get 1200
at cruise, and 1300 at full boot. The car was running VERY rich according to
this, but no misfire at all. Id did still log knock, so the extra fuel did
nothing for the knock. The datalog shows O2 readings of 93-96 in the areas
that I added fuel. EGT says that the O2 was really fat, O2 sensor could
hardly tell the difference.

I am not sure where all of this is headed. I know that the EGTs that I am
seeing with Shiv's rail compared to the power calc'd and felt is lower EGT
and higher power. I would imagine that with perhaps all of the cylinders
getting equal fuel, that changes made to the timing and fuel maps will now
affect all cylinders equally. I am also finding that for my car, EGT in the
1500-1550 range is about right for AF. More fuel seems to have a more
dramatic affect on EGT than timing advance.

No one has been able to explain to me how adding the fuel rail decreased the
engine "noise floor" that I had before that was supposed to be normal to
virtually nothing there when it is not knocking. When I do get knock, or
"noise", I can kill it by taking out timing and adding fuel. That would make
you want to think that it is detonation. One theory is misfire harmonics.
The experience that I have had with changing maps to offset knock, and I
have looked at PLENTY now, I think the Link sensor does a pretty darn good
job of hearing knock. The noise signatures that I am seeing now are very
pronounced and peaked in nature, and do not seem to have the gradual rise to
redline as before.

I am wondering what Ray needs to make the temp compensation for hotter
weather work better. I am still pulling timing and adding fuel to get rid of
some of the knock that I have now, and I know via the 1/2 dozen datalogs
that I have taken that most of the knock is due to the warmer weather. I
guess I am just running too close to the knock threshold for any headroom
for warmer weather.

Jess

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Jess Gypin" <(email redacted)>


200 hp and 180 ft/lbs. This compares to 230 hp and 200 ft/lbs when I had the
other chip running 180 kpa and EGTs more in line.

Jess
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Wegener" <(email redacted)>
To: "Jess Gypin" <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 21:20 PM
Subject: Re: I know what too rich looks like now :-)


>
> Jess, out of curiousity, what were the #s generated by MLL for the
'insanely
> rich' run with the EGTs at 1300?
>
> Scott
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jess Gypin" <(email redacted)>
> To: <(email redacted)>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 11:46 PM
> Subject: I know what too rich looks like now :-)
>
>
> >
> > I have been playing more with fuel today. I saw the most dramatic change
I
> > have ever seen in EGT today. As many of you know, I have been trying to
> get
> > my arms around the knocking that is going on now with the warmer
weather.
> I
> > have been playing with the timing and fuel. I added fuel to the 5 row in
> > 555-570 because the O2 level was not as high as the previous logged
values
> > and I was getting some knock at the upper end. I know the O2 sensor does
> not
> > show you the real deal, but it is good for comparing levels in the same
> > datalog.
> >
> > In the log previous to this one, I was showing 96 O2 tapering down to 91
> at
> > redline, EGT was at the upper end touching 1550 at the top of 4th. I
> thought
> > I should fatten up the fuel based on what I saw for knock and O2 drop
> > combined. I added 3 points at 545-555 and then 5 points at 565-575. Then
> > next datalog showed the O2 values had increased a little at the upper
end
> > and the curve was flatter, which is what I wanted. Here is the funny or
> > weird part. I watched the EGT and it never went over 1300. I would get
> 1200
> > at cruise, and 1300 at full boot. The car was running VERY rich
according
> to
> > this, but no misfire at all. Id did still log knock, so the extra fuel
did
> > nothing for the knock. The datalog shows O2 readings of 93-96 in the
areas
> > that I added fuel. EGT says that the O2 was really fat, O2 sensor could
> > hardly tell the difference.
> >
> > I am not sure where all of this is headed. I know that the EGTs that I
am
> > seeing with Shiv's rail compared to the power calc'd and felt is lower
EGT
> > and higher power. I would imagine that with perhaps all of the cylinders
> > getting equal fuel, that changes made to the timing and fuel maps will
now
> > affect all cylinders equally. I am also finding that for my car, EGT in
> the
> > 1500-1550 range is about right for AF. More fuel seems to have a more
> > dramatic affect on EGT than timing advance.
> >
> > No one has been able to explain to me how adding the fuel rail decreased
> the
> > engine "noise floor" that I had before that was supposed to be normal to
> > virtually nothing there when it is not knocking. When I do get knock, or
> > "noise", I can kill it by taking out timing and adding fuel. That would
> make
> > you want to think that it is detonation. One theory is misfire
harmonics.
> > The experience that I have had with changing maps to offset knock, and I
> > have looked at PLENTY now, I think the Link sensor does a pretty darn
good
> > job of hearing knock. The noise signatures that I am seeing now are very
> > pronounced and peaked in nature, and do not seem to have the gradual
rise
> to
> > redline as before.
> >
> > I am wondering what Ray needs to make the temp compensation for hotter
> > weather work better. I am still pulling timing and adding fuel to get
rid
> of
> > some of the knock that I have now, and I know via the 1/2 dozen datalogs
> > that I have taken that most of the knock is due to the warmer weather. I
> > guess I am just running too close to the knock threshold for any
headroom
> > for warmer weather.
> >
> > Jess
> >
>
>
>