Miatapower List Archive

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Matthew Paul Rhoten" <(email redacted)>


Recently I gave a friend of mine a drive in my FM2 car, and he asked me
what problems I'd had during installation. This reminded me that I never
emailed the "gripes list" I promised to send to the power list. I really
had only a few gripes with the kit, but here they are anyway:

1) Hose clamps. The included hose clamps were slightly too small for a
number of the connections, so after tearing up my fingers trying to
shoehorn them onto the hoses, I gave up and went out to buy some larger
ones. Increasing the size of each clamp a little would fix this, and
wouldn't leave all that much extra clamp material when they're tightened.
This problem may be made moot once FM starts selling sets of T-bolt
clamps.

2) Torque ratings. The instructions, while better than most aftermarket
parts instructions I've seen, don't include torque ratings for the
fasteners. While I am clueful enough to know the difference between steel
and softer metals like aluminum, I do wonder whether some of the problems
people have had with fasteners backing out/backing off would be cured by a
torque spec.

Pretty short list, huh? The only other problems I had were due to me not
reading (IC piping problems).

-matt

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Bill Cardell <(email redacted)>


Matt,
Wow, they should all be that short ;-) Clamps have been upgraded to the
Breeze style, new complaint will be that the clamps are too big, as they
only come in a couple of sizes. We also have upgraded the silicone hose to
the five layer blue stuff.
Let me have a list of which bolts you would want to see torques on. A lot of
them we don't include because it's impossible to get a torque wrench on, but
if there are ones that a wrench can be put on and we don't have torques, let
me know and we'll fix it.
Thanks for the feedback!
BTW, first kits shipped out of our place last week, all turbo kits will now
be assembled and packed at our location out of inventory. We are currently
catching up on a 30 kit backlog, have hired extra shipping help to get
caught up. Within a month or so, kits should ship in 2-3 days from order
date. Been a long time coming....

Bill Cardell
(email redacted)
Flyin' Miata
flyinmiata.com
200mphmiata.net
1-800-FLY-MX5S (orders only)
1-970-242-3800 (tech)


-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Paul Rhoten [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 10:13 AM
To: (email redacted)
Subject: FM2 gripes list



Recently I gave a friend of mine a drive in my FM2 car, and he asked me
what problems I'd had during installation. This reminded me that I never
emailed the "gripes list" I promised to send to the power list. I really
had only a few gripes with the kit, but here they are anyway:

1) Hose clamps. The included hose clamps were slightly too small for a
number of the connections, so after tearing up my fingers trying to
shoehorn them onto the hoses, I gave up and went out to buy some larger
ones. Increasing the size of each clamp a little would fix this, and
wouldn't leave all that much extra clamp material when they're tightened.
This problem may be made moot once FM starts selling sets of T-bolt
clamps.

2) Torque ratings. The instructions, while better than most aftermarket
parts instructions I've seen, don't include torque ratings for the
fasteners. While I am clueful enough to know the difference between steel
and softer metals like aluminum, I do wonder whether some of the problems
people have had with fasteners backing out/backing off would be cured by a
torque spec.

Pretty short list, huh? The only other problems I had were due to me not
reading (IC piping problems).

-matt

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Kevin Camire <(email redacted)>


Congrats!

Great to see a manufacturer delivering on, and improving their kits on a
continuos basis!

Your are a select few,

KPC

Bill Cardell wrote:

> Matt,
> Wow, they should all be that short ;-) Clamps have been upgraded to the
> Breeze style, new complaint will be that the clamps are too big, as they
> only come in a couple of sizes. We also have upgraded the silicone hose to
> the five layer blue stuff.
> Let me have a list of which bolts you would want to see torques on. A lot of
> them we don't include because it's impossible to get a torque wrench on, but
> if there are ones that a wrench can be put on and we don't have torques, let
> me know and we'll fix it.
> Thanks for the feedback!
> BTW, first kits shipped out of our place last week, all turbo kits will now
> be assembled and packed at our location out of inventory. We are currently
> catching up on a 30 kit backlog, have hired extra shipping help to get
> caught up. Within a month or so, kits should ship in 2-3 days from order
> date. Been a long time coming....
>
> Bill Cardell
> (email redacted)
> Flyin' Miata
> flyinmiata.com
> 200mphmiata.net
> 1-800-FLY-MX5S (orders only)
> 1-970-242-3800 (tech)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matthew Paul Rhoten [mailto:(email redacted)]
> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 10:13 AM
> To: (email redacted)
> Subject: FM2 gripes list
>
> Recently I gave a friend of mine a drive in my FM2 car, and he asked me
> what problems I'd had during installation. This reminded me that I never
> emailed the "gripes list" I promised to send to the power list. I really
> had only a few gripes with the kit, but here they are anyway:
>
> 1) Hose clamps. The included hose clamps were slightly too small for a
> number of the connections, so after tearing up my fingers trying to
> shoehorn them onto the hoses, I gave up and went out to buy some larger
> ones. Increasing the size of each clamp a little would fix this, and
> wouldn't leave all that much extra clamp material when they're tightened.
> This problem may be made moot once FM starts selling sets of T-bolt
> clamps.
>
> 2) Torque ratings. The instructions, while better than most aftermarket
> parts instructions I've seen, don't include torque ratings for the
> fasteners. While I am clueful enough to know the difference between steel
> and softer metals like aluminum, I do wonder whether some of the problems
> people have had with fasteners backing out/backing off would be cured by a
> torque spec.
>
> Pretty short list, huh? The only other problems I had were due to me not
> reading (IC piping problems).
>
> -matt

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Jeff Goss <(email redacted)>


Bill Cardell wrote:
> BTW, first kits shipped out of our place last week, all turbo kits will now
> be assembled and packed at our location out of inventory. We are currently
> catching up on a 30 kit backlog, have hired extra shipping help to get
> caught up. Within a month or so, kits should ship in 2-3 days from order
> date. Been a long time coming....

Woohoo! I guess this means that my kit (probably near the end of the
backlog :-() will be out relatively soon, and I'll have to get serious
about figuring out what all these tuning posts are all about. Also good
to hear of more improvements in the kits.

I'm just wondering now about my choice for the small BB turbo option for
my 99 Miata. The car will be used mainly for auto-x and regular street
driving, and comparing the torque curves from some of the dyno pages
really made this look like the way to go. I basically took the
Pokiedyno, converted to GIF, and then overlaid the torque curves from
the small BB and then threw in a stock and a sebring torque curve for
the full range of comparison.

What it looked like to me was that the small BB never lost to the
sebring (Pokie was beat by it until 2900) and and it beat the pokie
graph by 25-50 (mostly 50) ft-lbs all the way to 4000, getting beat only
at 4300. After that crossover point, it got beat by less than 20 ft-lbs
all the way to redline (similar curve, just lower by that margin).

I guess more than the power might be the nature of the car wen its
done. Ken has posted on here saying that the small BB just doesn't have
much of a rush to redline, and suggested that it was a shift at 5000
kind of option (although the graphs showed power peaking at 6000). What
about the other option - the large BB? Would it have a torque curve
closer to the standard FMII or to the small BB? I don't want a ton of
lag given the use the car will have.

Oh well, maybe this is all moot anyway - my kit could already be
assembled and in transit (hope springs eternal!). Maybe I should stop
second guessing myself and get back to waiting...

BTW, although I know that there are many factors that can affect dyno
runs and a lot of tuning is done to extract the maximum potential, I
would think that a chart like the one I drafted would be very useful for
people looking at FI. You could make them a little conservative, or the
average of runs from similarly equipped cars to help balance it out, or
whatever. It was interesting to me to see the Sebring graphed with the
turbo kits. I just took data points every 500 rpm from one graph and
then hand sketched the approximate curve between those points using
photo house. It's tough to compare separate charts using different
scales and grids.

>
> Bill Cardell

--

Thanks.

Jeff Goss

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Keith Tanner <(email redacted)>



>I'm just wondering now about my choice for the small BB turbo option for
>my 99 Miata.

Bill, isn't this what was on your 99 when I drove it? If so, it's a very
impressive setup. It felt like the best integrated turbo kit I've ever
driven, something I could believe had been engineered by a manufacturer. It
had very good behaviour tootling around town as well as chasing Bill and
Teri when they were driving Whoosh. Remember, this is coming from a guy
who's a big NA fan. I wasn't interested in the numbers, only the way the
car drove. It was strong enough that I didn't have to worry about running
out of power. Only once did Bill insult my manhood because the 99 wasn't as
fast in a straight line as his 90 :)

Pokie was a little more exciting, but that's what happens when you combine
big boost with an untuned chip - on roads with no guardrails and massive
dropoffs.

Keith

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Matthew Paul Rhoten" <(email redacted)>


Bill and List,

Well, all the recent changes in the kits sound like good ones to me.
Aren't those blue 5-layer hoses thicker than the orange ones, though? I
imagine some people with P/S and A/C may have clearance problems with the
belt, if the hoses get thicker. I actually had interference until I got
really creative with about half a dozen zip ties. Were people having
problems with the older (orange) style of hoses, maybe from fuel
contamination?

And congratulations, Bill and FM, on shipping kits from stock. I imagine
you know you've lost some business from impatient people; now you can get
that business back.

I will go over the FM2 instructions next week or so to make up a list of
fasteners that could use torque ratings in the manual. I am a relatively
inexperienced mechanic, so the list may be a little bogus, but I figure
that's OK.

-matt

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Lee Thompson <(email redacted)>


Bill,

This is great news! I have been in no rush to order my FM II, the longer I wait the better it gets,
but it looks like the time has come. :) Are there any other improvements or changes in the kit now
that you are warehousing and shipping it? Are there any other changes planned in the near future?

Thanks very much for your outlay of time and money doing this, hopefully it is profitable as well as
rewarding.

Lee Thompson



> -----Original Message-----
> From: (email redacted)
> [mailto:(email redacted)]On Behalf Of Matthew Paul Rhoten
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 2:31 AM
> To: Bill Cardell; (email redacted)
> Subject: Re: FM2 gripes list
>
>
>
> Bill and List,
>
> Well, all the recent changes in the kits sound like good ones to me.
> Aren't those blue 5-layer hoses thicker than the orange ones, though? I
> imagine some people with P/S and A/C may have clearance problems with the
> belt, if the hoses get thicker. I actually had interference until I got
> really creative with about half a dozen zip ties. Were people having
> problems with the older (orange) style of hoses, maybe from fuel
> contamination?
>
> And congratulations, Bill and FM, on shipping kits from stock. I imagine
> you know you've lost some business from impatient people; now you can get
> that business back.
>
> I will go over the FM2 instructions next week or so to make up a list of
> fasteners that could use torque ratings in the manual. I am a relatively
> inexperienced mechanic, so the list may be a little bogus, but I figure
> that's OK.
>
> -matt
>
>
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Bill Cardell <(email redacted)>


Lee,
Couple more things we're changing. We've gone to some very thick wall
silicone vacuum signal hose that is damn near impossible to kink. Added a
rubber weatherstrip seal to the top of the airbox on the FMII kits. 1.6 kits
now include a four wire sensor. All kits, including system 4 now use the FM
style 2.5" downpipe. New all metal custom bypass valve coming as an option,
ready in about a month. Adjustable driver's side ic mount to compensate for
car differences. Have tried to up the quality of all of the little
ancillaries. Takes several hours to pack them, I think the days of parts
sneaking out through holes in the box are done. I'm sure we'll have some
teething problems, so bear with us.

Bill Cardell
(email redacted)
Flyin' Miata
flyinmiata.com
200mphmiata.net
1-800-FLY-MX5S (orders only)
1-970-242-3800 (tech)


-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Thompson [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 6:51 AM
To: (email redacted); Bill Cardell
Subject: RE: FM2 gripes list


Bill,

This is great news! I have been in no rush to order my FM II, the longer I
wait the better it gets,
but it looks like the time has come. :) Are there any other improvements or
changes in the kit now
that you are warehousing and shipping it? Are there any other changes
planned in the near future?

Thanks very much for your outlay of time and money doing this, hopefully it
is profitable as well as
rewarding.

Lee Thompson



> -----Original Message-----
> From: (email redacted)
> [mailto:(email redacted)]On Behalf Of Matthew Paul Rhoten
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 2:31 AM
> To: Bill Cardell; (email redacted)
> Subject: Re: FM2 gripes list
>
>
>
> Bill and List,
>
> Well, all the recent changes in the kits sound like good ones to me.
> Aren't those blue 5-layer hoses thicker than the orange ones, though? I
> imagine some people with P/S and A/C may have clearance problems with the
> belt, if the hoses get thicker. I actually had interference until I got
> really creative with about half a dozen zip ties. Were people having
> problems with the older (orange) style of hoses, maybe from fuel
> contamination?
>
> And congratulations, Bill and FM, on shipping kits from stock. I imagine
> you know you've lost some business from impatient people; now you can get
> that business back.
>
> I will go over the FM2 instructions next week or so to make up a list of
> fasteners that could use torque ratings in the manual. I am a relatively
> inexperienced mechanic, so the list may be a little bogus, but I figure
> that's OK.
>
> -matt
>
>
>