Miatapower List Archive

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)

Got a reply from BEGi on repairing my cracked manifold... when it rains:

Walt,
The manifold is repairable. However, any repairs made will probably only
last about one year. The repair cost is $225 to $275. We will have to fix
the cracks, then re-machine the manifold. It will take approximately 2 1/2
to 3 1/2 hours to fix, depending on casting quality.

Another option is to replace it with the new style 1.6 manifold. The new
style is drilled for a T28 turbo. Corky says it should fit. You would have
to drill and tap the hole for the fitting. However, if any changes are made
to the manifold after it leaves our office, it will void the warranty.

Sooooooooo, anyone know what the "new manifold" looks like compared to me
old one? Just wondering... no price yet, anyone have a used 1.6 manifold
they don't need?

Wallyman

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "mel hoagland" <(email redacted)>

Wallyman,

Are the cracks leaking at all? I had cracks in my original manifold that we=
re much larger and more extensive, by an order of magnitude, than what you =
show in the photos. Lasted a couple of years that way, and Les would point =
them out every time Wheezy was in for TLC. Eventually they gave way and a c=
hunk the size of my thumb blew out. Had to happen at Watkins Glen, of cours=
e. Thankfully, I had already started to tow Wheezy to the gigs.

So bottom line is, I wouldn't worry, mate.

Mel

...........................o~`o
WHEEZY

----- Original Message -----=20
From: (email redacted)=20
To: (email redacted)=20
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 10:05 AM
Subject: 1.6 turbo manifold design changed?


Got a reply from BEGi on repairing my cracked manifold... when it rains:

Walt,
The manifold is repairable. However, any repairs made will probably only
last about one year. The repair cost is $225 to $275. We will have to fix
the cracks, then re-machine the manifold. It will take approximately 2 1/2
to 3 1/2 hours to fix, depending on casting quality.

Another option is to replace it with the new style 1.6 manifold. The new
style is drilled for a T28 turbo. Corky says it should fit. You would have
to drill and tap the hole for the fitting. However, if any changes are ma=
de
to the manifold after it leaves our office, it will void the warranty.

Sooooooooo, anyone know what the "new manifold" looks like compared to me
old one? Just wondering... no price yet, anyone have a used 1.6 manifold
they don't need?

Wallyman

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)

So the sheer likelihood of me putting this all back together and having it
crack doesn't seem likely? Heh, wish I could believe that. :) Murphy is
my mechanic....

I must say, though, the way you run Wheezy, the Sub doesn't see NEAR the
track running....

Hmmm...

Wallyman





"mel hoagland"
<mhoaglan@maine.r
r.com> To
<(email redacted)>
08/02/2005 10:42 cc
AM
Subject
Re: 1.6 turbo manifold design
changed?










Wallyman,

Are the cracks leaking at all? I had cracks in my original manifold that
were much larger and more extensive, by an order of magnitude, than what
you show in the photos. Lasted a couple of years that way, and Les would
point them out every time Wheezy was in for TLC. Eventually they gave way
and a chunk the size of my thumb blew out. Had to happen at Watkins Glen,
of course. Thankfully, I had already started to tow Wheezy to the gigs.

So bottom line is, I wouldn't worry, mate.

Mel

...........................o~`o
WHEEZY
----- Original Message -----
From: (email redacted)
To: (email redacted)
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 10:05 AM
Subject: 1.6 turbo manifold design changed?

Got a reply from BEGi on repairing my cracked manifold... when it rains:

Walt,
The manifold is repairable. However, any repairs made will probably only
last about one year. The repair cost is $225 to $275. We will have to fix
the cracks, then re-machine the manifold. It will take approximately 2 1/2
to 3 1/2 hours to fix, depending on casting quality.

Another option is to replace it with the new style 1.6 manifold. The new
style is drilled for a T28 turbo. Corky says it should fit. You would have
to drill and tap the hole for the fitting. However, if any changes are
made
to the manifold after it leaves our office, it will void the warranty.

Sooooooooo, anyone know what the "new manifold" looks like compared to me
old one? Just wondering... no price yet, anyone have a used 1.6 manifold
they don't need?

Wallyman

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Regie L Bryant <(email redacted)>

Wally,

As part of your research, go to the www.hobartwelders.com\mboard forum and
under Projects post a newbie question with the pictures of the DP and
manifold cracks and tell them the DP is mild steel and the manifold is
cast. Ask them for recommendations of a shop that could fix them right in
your area. One of the regulars on that board goes by Sberry and he is a
sharp cookie on welding and he also lives in MI somewhere, so I think you
can get pointed towards a local shop that could quote you on the repairs.
I'm thinking Corky may not want to stop regular production to do a repair,
and it is reflected in his pricing, but I could be wrong, and this
suggestion is just to get hopefully another informed opinion and quote.

One of my track buddies DP cracked about like yours. At that point I
tried welding it and could only blow bigger holes in it. He had a local
shop weld it back and it cracked again. (He then went to a tubular
manifold with a different DP design and the tubular manifold has cracked
twice right in the welding HAZ where the DP's crack. It is my opinion that
for longevity cast is the way to go.)

A few months later when my DP cracked (about like yours), I picked up the
phone and called Bill and Terri. Yes, the new FM cast DP is not cheap, but
it definitely solves the problem. With tracked cars those old-style DP's
are going to break, it is simply a matter of when, not if.

I know this doesn't answer your direct question, but I didn't know the
answer. :-)

Regie



Walt_Helsel@URSCo
rp.com
To
08/02/2005 10:05 (email redacted)
AM cc

Subject
1.6 turbo manifold design changed?










Got a reply from BEGi on repairing my cracked manifold... when it rains:

Walt,
The manifold is repairable. However, any repairs made will probably only
last about one year. The repair cost is $225 to $275. We will have to fix
the cracks, then re-machine the manifold. It will take approximately 2 1/2
to 3 1/2 hours to fix, depending on casting quality.

Another option is to replace it with the new style 1.6 manifold. The new
style is drilled for a T28 turbo. Corky says it should fit. You would have
to drill and tap the hole for the fitting. However, if any changes are made
to the manifold after it leaves our office, it will void the warranty.

Sooooooooo, anyone know what the "new manifold" looks like compared to me
old one? Just wondering... no price yet, anyone have a used 1.6 manifold
they don't need?

Wallyman

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "mel hoagland" <(email redacted)>

Yeah, that's what my guess would be - mine cracked only so far and then wen=
t no further for a couple of years at least, and these cracks were 3 to 4 i=
nches long (no exaggeration) and connected together. There was even a chunk=
of iron, triangular in shape, that had separated, shifted outwards and jam=
med in place. This was the chunk that finally let go at the Glen, but again=
, only after two years of running on the track. If your manifold has alread=
y experienced the maximum heat it's likely to see, then the cracks might go=
no further. If that's the case, I wouldn't worry about it - those are pret=
ty small cracks.

Even with these sizable cracks I was able to make a consistent 15 psi, and =
very stable, so there wasn't much loss of pressure.

Mel

...........................o~`o
WHEEZY

----- Original Message -----=20
From: (email redacted)=20
To: mel hoagland=20
Cc: (email redacted)=20
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: 1.6 turbo manifold design changed?


So the sheer likelihood of me putting this all back together and having it
crack doesn't seem likely? Heh, wish I could believe that. :) Murphy is
my mechanic....

I must say, though, the way you run Wheezy, the Sub doesn't see NEAR the
track running....

Hmmm...

Wallyman




=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20
"mel hoagland"=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
<mhoaglan@maine.r=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20
r.com> T=
o=20
<(email redacted)>=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
08/02/2005 10:42 c=
c=20
AM=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
Subjec=
t=20
Re: 1.6 turbo manifold design=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20
changed?=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
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=20=20




Wallyman,

Are the cracks leaking at all? I had cracks in my original manifold that
were much larger and more extensive, by an order of magnitude, than what
you show in the photos. Lasted a couple of years that way, and Les would
point them out every time Wheezy was in for TLC. Eventually they gave way
and a chunk the size of my thumb blew out. Had to happen at Watkins Glen,
of course. Thankfully, I had already started to tow Wheezy to the gigs.

So bottom line is, I wouldn't worry, mate.

Mel

...........................o~`o
WHEEZY
----- Original Message -----
From: (email redacted)
To: (email redacted)
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 10:05 AM
Subject: 1.6 turbo manifold design changed?

Got a reply from BEGi on repairing my cracked manifold... when it rains:

Walt,
The manifold is repairable. However, any repairs made will probably only
last about one year. The repair cost is $225 to $275. We will have to fix
the cracks, then re-machine the manifold. It will take approximately 2 1=
/2
to 3 1/2 hours to fix, depending on casting quality.

Another option is to replace it with the new style 1.6 manifold. The new
style is drilled for a T28 turbo. Corky says it should fit. You would ha=
ve
to drill and tap the hole for the fitting. However, if any changes are
made
to the manifold after it leaves our office, it will void the warranty.

Sooooooooo, anyone know what the "new manifold" looks like compared to me
old one? Just wondering... no price yet, anyone have a used 1.6 manifold
they don't need?

Wallyman

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)

Well, that manifold was not cleaned up at all, and there is no obvious
marks from actual exhaust gas coming out, perhaps you are the smarter
man... I just get really leery of putting parts on the car that are
obviously 'not right' because I know it's just a matter of time...

What did you do when it went finally, bought a new? Pricetag?

Wally





"mel hoagland"
<mhoaglan@maine.r
r.com> To
<(email redacted)>
08/02/2005 11:07 cc
AM
Subject
Re: 1.6 turbo manifold design
changed?










Yeah, that's what my guess would be - mine cracked only so far and then
went no further for a couple of years at least, and these cracks were 3 to
4 inches long (no exaggeration) and connected together. There was even a
chunk of iron, triangular in shape, that had separated, shifted outwards
and jammed in place. This was the chunk that finally let go at the Glen,
but again, only after two years of running on the track. If your manifold
has already experienced the maximum heat it's likely to see, then the
cracks might go no further. If that's the case, I wouldn't worry about it -
those are pretty small cracks.

Even with these sizable cracks I was able to make a consistent 15 psi, and
very stable, so there wasn't much loss of pressure.

Mel

...........................o~`o
WHEEZY
----- Original Message -----
From: (email redacted)
To: mel hoagland
Cc: (email redacted)
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: 1.6 turbo manifold design changed?

So the sheer likelihood of me putting this all back together and having it
crack doesn't seem likely? Heh, wish I could believe that. :) Murphy is
my mechanic....

I must say, though, the way you run Wheezy, the Sub doesn't see NEAR the
track running....

Hmmm...

Wallyman





"mel hoagland"

<mhoaglan@maine.r

r.com> To

<(email redacted)>

08/02/2005 10:42 cc

AM

Subject

Re: 1.6 turbo manifold design

changed?











Wallyman,

Are the cracks leaking at all? I had cracks in my original manifold that
were much larger and more extensive, by an order of magnitude, than what
you show in the photos. Lasted a couple of years that way, and Les would
point them out every time Wheezy was in for TLC. Eventually they gave way
and a chunk the size of my thumb blew out. Had to happen at Watkins Glen,
of course. Thankfully, I had already started to tow Wheezy to the gigs.

So bottom line is, I wouldn't worry, mate.

Mel

...........................o~`o
WHEEZY
----- Original Message -----
From: (email redacted)
To: (email redacted)
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 10:05 AM
Subject: 1.6 turbo manifold design changed?

Got a reply from BEGi on repairing my cracked manifold... when it rains:

Walt,
The manifold is repairable. However, any repairs made will probably only
last about one year. The repair cost is $225 to $275. We will have to fix
the cracks, then re-machine the manifold. It will take approximately 2
1/2
to 3 1/2 hours to fix, depending on casting quality.

Another option is to replace it with the new style 1.6 manifold. The new
style is drilled for a T28 turbo. Corky says it should fit. You would
have
to drill and tap the hole for the fitting. However, if any changes are
made
to the manifold after it leaves our office, it will void the warranty.

Sooooooooo, anyone know what the "new manifold" looks like compared to me
old one? Just wondering... no price yet, anyone have a used 1.6 manifold
they don't need?

Wallyman

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)

Left one at Hobart, let's see what comes of that.. sounds like I could be
'fat dumb and happy' just putting it back on. I can tell you that Jess'
tuning has lowered EGT's a bit at cruise, I didn't have time to really
notice at boost but I assume there too.

As to DP, I've gotten those repaired in the past and they hold up, I'm not
the least worried about that part. That's the easy/cheap one.

I agree the new DP might be a great solution, but $460 (what happened to
$395??) is far beyond my "things I can buy" fund.. which currently is at
-$325 and counting. And the new one for the 1.6 is not even cast.. still a
fabricated welded part apparently. No, the DP is fine and I can get that
mopped up without too much concern. I'm not even thinking about that.. the
turbo and manifold, those are really bugging me tho.

This whole repair is really making me crabby... and broke. Feel like I
should just order a new FM-II kit for $3500.. jezzz.. BOV I just replaced,
new DP style, working BB turbo, uncracked new style manifold.. I wouldn't
need injectors or IC (hell, even the newer IC could be used, better mounts)
so I;d have injectors and some IC piping... sad.

Wallyman






Regie L Bryant
<rbryant@duke-ene
rgy.com> To
(email redacted)
08/02/2005 10:52 cc
AM (email redacted)
Subject
Re: 1.6 turbo manifold design
changed?










Wally,

As part of your research, go to the www.hobartwelders.com\mboard forum and
under Projects post a newbie question with the pictures of the DP and
manifold cracks and tell them the DP is mild steel and the manifold is
cast. Ask them for recommendations of a shop that could fix them right in
your area. One of the regulars on that board goes by Sberry and he is a
sharp cookie on welding and he also lives in MI somewhere, so I think you
can get pointed towards a local shop that could quote you on the repairs.
I'm thinking Corky may not want to stop regular production to do a repair,
and it is reflected in his pricing, but I could be wrong, and this
suggestion is just to get hopefully another informed opinion and quote.

One of my track buddies DP cracked about like yours. At that point I
tried welding it and could only blow bigger holes in it. He had a local
shop weld it back and it cracked again. (He then went to a tubular
manifold with a different DP design and the tubular manifold has cracked
twice right in the welding HAZ where the DP's crack. It is my opinion that
for longevity cast is the way to go.)

A few months later when my DP cracked (about like yours), I picked up the
phone and called Bill and Terri. Yes, the new FM cast DP is not cheap, but
it definitely solves the problem. With tracked cars those old-style DP's
are going to break, it is simply a matter of when, not if.

I know this doesn't answer your direct question, but I didn't know the
answer. :-)

Regie



Walt_Helsel@URSCo
rp.com
To
08/02/2005 10:05 (email redacted)
AM cc

Subject
1.6 turbo manifold design changed?










Got a reply from BEGi on repairing my cracked manifold... when it rains:

Walt,
The manifold is repairable. However, any repairs made will probably only
last about one year. The repair cost is $225 to $275. We will have to fix
the cracks, then re-machine the manifold. It will take approximately 2 1/2
to 3 1/2 hours to fix, depending on casting quality.

Another option is to replace it with the new style 1.6 manifold. The new
style is drilled for a T28 turbo. Corky says it should fit. You would have
to drill and tap the hole for the fitting. However, if any changes are made
to the manifold after it leaves our office, it will void the warranty.

Sooooooooo, anyone know what the "new manifold" looks like compared to me
old one? Just wondering... no price yet, anyone have a used 1.6 manifold
they don't need?

Wallyman

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "mel hoagland" <(email redacted)>

I got a great deal from Bill for a used manifold that came off one of his t=
est mules - not sure which one. It was a matter of being in the right place=
at the right time.

Mel

...........................o~`o
WHEEZY

----- Original Message -----=20
From: (email redacted)=20
To: mel hoagland=20
Cc: (email redacted)=20
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 11:10 AM
Subject: Re: 1.6 turbo manifold design changed?


Well, that manifold was not cleaned up at all, and there is no obvious
marks from actual exhaust gas coming out, perhaps you are the smarter
man... I just get really leery of putting parts on the car that are
obviously 'not right' because I know it's just a matter of time...

What did you do when it went finally, bought a new? Pricetag?

Wally




=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
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"mel hoagland"=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
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=20=20=20=20=20=20
r.com> T=
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<(email redacted)>=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
08/02/2005 11:07 c=
c=20
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Re: 1.6 turbo manifold design=20=
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=20=20
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=
=20=20




Yeah, that's what my guess would be - mine cracked only so far and then
went no further for a couple of years at least, and these cracks were 3 to
4 inches long (no exaggeration) and connected together. There was even a
chunk of iron, triangular in shape, that had separated, shifted outwards
and jammed in place. This was the chunk that finally let go at the Glen,
but again, only after two years of running on the track. If your manifold
has already experienced the maximum heat it's likely to see, then the
cracks might go no further. If that's the case, I wouldn't worry about it=
-
those are pretty small cracks.

Even with these sizable cracks I was able to make a consistent 15 psi, and
very stable, so there wasn't much loss of pressure.

Mel

...........................o~`o
WHEEZY
----- Original Message -----
From: (email redacted)
To: mel hoagland
Cc: (email redacted)
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: 1.6 turbo manifold design changed?

So the sheer likelihood of me putting this all back together and having =
it
crack doesn't seem likely? Heh, wish I could believe that. :) Murphy is
my mechanic....

I must say, though, the way you run Wheezy, the Sub doesn't see NEAR the
track running....

Hmmm...

Wallyman





"mel hoagland"

<mhoaglan@maine.r

r.com> =
To

<(email redacted)>

08/02/2005 10:42 =
cc

AM

Subje=
ct

Re: 1.6 turbo manifold design

changed?











Wallyman,

Are the cracks leaking at all? I had cracks in my original manifold that
were much larger and more extensive, by an order of magnitude, than what
you show in the photos. Lasted a couple of years that way, and Les would
point them out every time Wheezy was in for TLC. Eventually they gave way
and a chunk the size of my thumb blew out. Had to happen at Watkins Glen,
of course. Thankfully, I had already started to tow Wheezy to the gigs.

So bottom line is, I wouldn't worry, mate.

Mel

...........................o~`o
WHEEZY
----- Original Message -----
From: (email redacted)
To: (email redacted)
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 10:05 AM
Subject: 1.6 turbo manifold design changed?

Got a reply from BEGi on repairing my cracked manifold... when it rains:

Walt,
The manifold is repairable. However, any repairs made will probably only
last about one year. The repair cost is $225 to $275. We will have to f=
ix
the cracks, then re-machine the manifold. It will take approximately 2
1/2
to 3 1/2 hours to fix, depending on casting quality.

Another option is to replace it with the new style 1.6 manifold. The new
style is drilled for a T28 turbo. Corky says it should fit. You would
have
to drill and tap the hole for the fitting. However, if any changes are
made
to the manifold after it leaves our office, it will void the warranty.

Sooooooooo, anyone know what the "new manifold" looks like compared to =
me
old one? Just wondering... no price yet, anyone have a used 1.6 manifo=
ld
they don't need?

Wallyman

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Murray, Richard" <(email redacted)>

Hey, is that the down pipe I gave you when your last one quit?

One thing you might do is cut the cast webbing through the mounting stud
hole between cylinders 2 and 3. That will reduce the stress as the
manifold expands and contracts.

I think I may still have the manifold from my 1.6L. It would have been
the old style, but with the webbing cut.

-----Original Message-----
From: (email redacted) [mailto:(email redacted)]=20
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 11:11
To: mel hoagland
Cc: (email redacted)
Subject: Re: 1.6 turbo manifold design changed?

Well, that manifold was not cleaned up at all, and there is no obvious
marks from actual exhaust gas coming out, perhaps you are the smarter
man... I just get really leery of putting parts on the car that are
obviously 'not right' because I know it's just a matter of time...

What did you do when it went finally, bought a new? Pricetag?

Wally




=20

"mel hoagland"

<mhoaglan@maine.r

r.com>
To=20
<(email redacted)>

08/02/2005 11:07
cc=20
AM

=20
Subject=20
Re: 1.6 turbo manifold design

changed?

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20





Yeah, that's what my guess would be - mine cracked only so far and then
went no further for a couple of years at least, and these cracks were 3
to
4 inches long (no exaggeration) and connected together. There was even a
chunk of iron, triangular in shape, that had separated, shifted outwards
and jammed in place. This was the chunk that finally let go at the Glen,
but again, only after two years of running on the track. If your
manifold
has already experienced the maximum heat it's likely to see, then the
cracks might go no further. If that's the case, I wouldn't worry about
it -
those are pretty small cracks.

Even with these sizable cracks I was able to make a consistent 15 psi,
and
very stable, so there wasn't much loss of pressure.

Mel

...........................o~`o
WHEEZY
----- Original Message -----
From: (email redacted)
To: mel hoagland
Cc: (email redacted)
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: 1.6 turbo manifold design changed?

So the sheer likelihood of me putting this all back together and having
it
crack doesn't seem likely? Heh, wish I could believe that. :) Murphy
is
my mechanic....

I must say, though, the way you run Wheezy, the Sub doesn't see NEAR
the
track running....

Hmmm...

Wallyman





"mel hoagland"

<mhoaglan@maine.r

r.com>
To

<(email redacted)>

08/02/2005 10:42
cc

AM

=20
Subject

Re: 1.6 turbo manifold design

changed?











Wallyman,

Are the cracks leaking at all? I had cracks in my original manifold
that
were much larger and more extensive, by an order of magnitude, than
what
you show in the photos. Lasted a couple of years that way, and Les
would
point them out every time Wheezy was in for TLC. Eventually they gave
way
and a chunk the size of my thumb blew out. Had to happen at Watkins
Glen,
of course. Thankfully, I had already started to tow Wheezy to the gigs.

So bottom line is, I wouldn't worry, mate.

Mel

...........................o~`o
WHEEZY
----- Original Message -----
From: (email redacted)
To: (email redacted)
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 10:05 AM
Subject: 1.6 turbo manifold design changed?

Got a reply from BEGi on repairing my cracked manifold... when it
rains:

Walt,
The manifold is repairable. However, any repairs made will probably
only
last about one year. The repair cost is $225 to $275. We will have to
fix
the cracks, then re-machine the manifold. It will take approximately 2
1/2
to 3 1/2 hours to fix, depending on casting quality.

Another option is to replace it with the new style 1.6 manifold. The
new
style is drilled for a T28 turbo. Corky says it should fit. You would
have
to drill and tap the hole for the fitting. However, if any changes are
made
to the manifold after it leaves our office, it will void the warranty.

Sooooooooo, anyone know what the "new manifold" looks like compared to
me
old one? Just wondering... no price yet, anyone have a used 1.6
manifold
they don't need?

Wallyman

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)

Uhhh, yeah, that's the one, with new WBO2 and EGT probe holes.. what I find
interesting is this one has no flex joint and was hard tied to the tranny..
so there should have been -0- flex or weight on it!

Bah... why did it crack?

Wallyman





"Murray, Richard"
<richard.murray@e
ds.com> To
<(email redacted)>
08/02/2005 12:50 cc
PM <(email redacted)>
Subject
RE: 1.6 turbo manifold design
changed?










Hey, is that the down pipe I gave you when your last one quit?

One thing you might do is cut the cast webbing through the mounting stud
hole between cylinders 2 and 3. That will reduce the stress as the
manifold expands and contracts.

I think I may still have the manifold from my 1.6L. It would have been
the old style, but with the webbing cut.

-----Original Message-----
From: (email redacted) [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 11:11
To: mel hoagland
Cc: (email redacted)
Subject: Re: 1.6 turbo manifold design changed?

Well, that manifold was not cleaned up at all, and there is no obvious
marks from actual exhaust gas coming out, perhaps you are the smarter
man... I just get really leery of putting parts on the car that are
obviously 'not right' because I know it's just a matter of time...

What did you do when it went finally, bought a new? Pricetag?

Wally






"mel hoagland"

<mhoaglan@maine.r

r.com>
To
<(email redacted)>

08/02/2005 11:07
cc
AM


Subject
Re: 1.6 turbo manifold design

changed?

















Yeah, that's what my guess would be - mine cracked only so far and then
went no further for a couple of years at least, and these cracks were 3
to
4 inches long (no exaggeration) and connected together. There was even a
chunk of iron, triangular in shape, that had separated, shifted outwards
and jammed in place. This was the chunk that finally let go at the Glen,
but again, only after two years of running on the track. If your
manifold
has already experienced the maximum heat it's likely to see, then the
cracks might go no further. If that's the case, I wouldn't worry about
it -
those are pretty small cracks.

Even with these sizable cracks I was able to make a consistent 15 psi,
and
very stable, so there wasn't much loss of pressure.

Mel

...........................o~`o
WHEEZY
----- Original Message -----
From: (email redacted)
To: mel hoagland
Cc: (email redacted)
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: 1.6 turbo manifold design changed?

So the sheer likelihood of me putting this all back together and having
it
crack doesn't seem likely? Heh, wish I could believe that. :) Murphy
is
my mechanic....

I must say, though, the way you run Wheezy, the Sub doesn't see NEAR
the
track running....

Hmmm...

Wallyman





"mel hoagland"

<mhoaglan@maine.r

r.com>
To

<(email redacted)>

08/02/2005 10:42
cc

AM


Subject

Re: 1.6 turbo manifold design

changed?











Wallyman,

Are the cracks leaking at all? I had cracks in my original manifold
that
were much larger and more extensive, by an order of magnitude, than
what
you show in the photos. Lasted a couple of years that way, and Les
would
point them out every time Wheezy was in for TLC. Eventually they gave
way
and a chunk the size of my thumb blew out. Had to happen at Watkins
Glen,
of course. Thankfully, I had already started to tow Wheezy to the gigs.

So bottom line is, I wouldn't worry, mate.

Mel

...........................o~`o
WHEEZY
----- Original Message -----
From: (email redacted)
To: (email redacted)
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 10:05 AM
Subject: 1.6 turbo manifold design changed?

Got a reply from BEGi on repairing my cracked manifold... when it
rains:

Walt,
The manifold is repairable. However, any repairs made will probably
only
last about one year. The repair cost is $225 to $275. We will have to
fix
the cracks, then re-machine the manifold. It will take approximately 2
1/2
to 3 1/2 hours to fix, depending on casting quality.

Another option is to replace it with the new style 1.6 manifold. The
new
style is drilled for a T28 turbo. Corky says it should fit. You would
have
to drill and tap the hole for the fitting. However, if any changes are
made
to the manifold after it leaves our office, it will void the warranty.

Sooooooooo, anyone know what the "new manifold" looks like compared to
me
old one? Just wondering... no price yet, anyone have a used 1.6
manifold
they don't need?

Wallyman

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Murray, Richard" <(email redacted)>

Well, maybe it was because before I tied it directly to the transmission
I had a couple of flange studs come loose and the flange warped. I then
just heated the flange and bent it back flat. Maybe there were still
some stresses in it.

I thought I only loaned it to you as a temporary fix until you got a
good one.

Do you want me to see if I still have that BEGI IV 1.6L cast manifold
laying around?

-----Original Message-----
From: (email redacted) [mailto:(email redacted)]=20
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 13:24
To: Murray, Richard
Cc: (email redacted)
Subject: RE: 1.6 turbo manifold design changed?

Uhhh, yeah, that's the one, with new WBO2 and EGT probe holes.. what I
find
interesting is this one has no flex joint and was hard tied to the
tranny..
so there should have been -0- flex or weight on it!

Bah... why did it crack?

Wallyman




=20

"Murray, Richard"

<richard.murray@e

ds.com>
To=20
<(email redacted)>

08/02/2005 12:50
cc=20
PM <(email redacted)>

=20
Subject=20
RE: 1.6 turbo manifold design

changed?

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20





Hey, is that the down pipe I gave you when your last one quit?

One thing you might do is cut the cast webbing through the mounting stud
hole between cylinders 2 and 3. That will reduce the stress as the
manifold expands and contracts.

I think I may still have the manifold from my 1.6L. It would have been
the old style, but with the webbing cut.

-----Original Message-----
From: (email redacted) [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 11:11
To: mel hoagland
Cc: (email redacted)
Subject: Re: 1.6 turbo manifold design changed?

Well, that manifold was not cleaned up at all, and there is no obvious
marks from actual exhaust gas coming out, perhaps you are the smarter
man... I just get really leery of putting parts on the car that are
obviously 'not right' because I know it's just a matter of time...

What did you do when it went finally, bought a new? Pricetag?

Wally






"mel hoagland"

<mhoaglan@maine.r

r.com>
To
<(email redacted)>

08/02/2005 11:07
cc
AM


Subject
Re: 1.6 turbo manifold design

changed?

















Yeah, that's what my guess would be - mine cracked only so far and then
went no further for a couple of years at least, and these cracks were 3
to
4 inches long (no exaggeration) and connected together. There was even a
chunk of iron, triangular in shape, that had separated, shifted outwards
and jammed in place. This was the chunk that finally let go at the Glen,
but again, only after two years of running on the track. If your
manifold
has already experienced the maximum heat it's likely to see, then the
cracks might go no further. If that's the case, I wouldn't worry about
it -
those are pretty small cracks.

Even with these sizable cracks I was able to make a consistent 15 psi,
and
very stable, so there wasn't much loss of pressure.

Mel

...........................o~`o
WHEEZY
----- Original Message -----
From: (email redacted)
To: mel hoagland
Cc: (email redacted)
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: 1.6 turbo manifold design changed?

So the sheer likelihood of me putting this all back together and having
it
crack doesn't seem likely? Heh, wish I could believe that. :) Murphy
is
my mechanic....

I must say, though, the way you run Wheezy, the Sub doesn't see NEAR
the
track running....

Hmmm...

Wallyman





"mel hoagland"

<mhoaglan@maine.r

r.com>
To

<(email redacted)>

08/02/2005 10:42
cc

AM


Subject

Re: 1.6 turbo manifold design

changed?











Wallyman,

Are the cracks leaking at all? I had cracks in my original manifold
that
were much larger and more extensive, by an order of magnitude, than
what
you show in the photos. Lasted a couple of years that way, and Les
would
point them out every time Wheezy was in for TLC. Eventually they gave
way
and a chunk the size of my thumb blew out. Had to happen at Watkins
Glen,
of course. Thankfully, I had already started to tow Wheezy to the gigs.

So bottom line is, I wouldn't worry, mate.

Mel

...........................o~`o
WHEEZY
----- Original Message -----
From: (email redacted)
To: (email redacted)
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 10:05 AM
Subject: 1.6 turbo manifold design changed?

Got a reply from BEGi on repairing my cracked manifold... when it
rains:

Walt,
The manifold is repairable. However, any repairs made will probably
only
last about one year. The repair cost is $225 to $275. We will have to
fix
the cracks, then re-machine the manifold. It will take approximately 2
1/2
to 3 1/2 hours to fix, depending on casting quality.

Another option is to replace it with the new style 1.6 manifold. The
new
style is drilled for a T28 turbo. Corky says it should fit. You would
have
to drill and tap the hole for the fitting. However, if any changes are
made
to the manifold after it leaves our office, it will void the warranty.

Sooooooooo, anyone know what the "new manifold" looks like compared to
me
old one? Just wondering... no price yet, anyone have a used 1.6
manifold
they don't need?

Wallyman

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)

It was pretty close, but the overall lay/fit was off.. IOW when it's
mounted it hangs low and right as viewed from the rear of the car.. and
it's longer to boot.. like an inch. Pushed the exhaust tip out so I'm
quasi-ricey.

Then I grossly misunderstood! See my private ass-kissing e-mail begging
for forgiveness!! :(

Yes please, see private mail.

Wallyman, who needs to improve basic communications comprehension! :(






"Murray, Richard"
<richard.murray@e
ds.com> To
<(email redacted)>
08/02/2005 02:11 cc
PM <(email redacted)>
Subject
RE: 1.6 turbo manifold design
Please respond to changed?
<rpmurray@comcast
.net>; Please
respond to
<richard.murray@e
ds.com>






Well, maybe it was because before I tied it directly to the transmission
I had a couple of flange studs come loose and the flange warped. I then
just heated the flange and bent it back flat. Maybe there were still
some stresses in it.

I thought I only loaned it to you as a temporary fix until you got a
good one.

Do you want me to see if I still have that BEGI IV 1.6L cast manifold
laying around?

-----Original Message-----
From: (email redacted) [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 13:24
To: Murray, Richard
Cc: (email redacted)
Subject: RE: 1.6 turbo manifold design changed?

Uhhh, yeah, that's the one, with new WBO2 and EGT probe holes.. what I
find
interesting is this one has no flex joint and was hard tied to the
tranny..
so there should have been -0- flex or weight on it!

Bah... why did it crack?

Wallyman






"Murray, Richard"

<richard.murray@e

ds.com>
To
<(email redacted)>

08/02/2005 12:50
cc
PM <(email redacted)>


Subject
RE: 1.6 turbo manifold design

changed?

















Hey, is that the down pipe I gave you when your last one quit?

One thing you might do is cut the cast webbing through the mounting stud
hole between cylinders 2 and 3. That will reduce the stress as the
manifold expands and contracts.

I think I may still have the manifold from my 1.6L. It would have been
the old style, but with the webbing cut.

-----Original Message-----
From: (email redacted) [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 11:11
To: mel hoagland
Cc: (email redacted)
Subject: Re: 1.6 turbo manifold design changed?

Well, that manifold was not cleaned up at all, and there is no obvious
marks from actual exhaust gas coming out, perhaps you are the smarter
man... I just get really leery of putting parts on the car that are
obviously 'not right' because I know it's just a matter of time...

What did you do when it went finally, bought a new? Pricetag?

Wally






"mel hoagland"

<mhoaglan@maine.r

r.com>
To
<(email redacted)>

08/02/2005 11:07
cc
AM


Subject
Re: 1.6 turbo manifold design

changed?

















Yeah, that's what my guess would be - mine cracked only so far and then
went no further for a couple of years at least, and these cracks were 3
to
4 inches long (no exaggeration) and connected together. There was even a
chunk of iron, triangular in shape, that had separated, shifted outwards
and jammed in place. This was the chunk that finally let go at the Glen,
but again, only after two years of running on the track. If your
manifold
has already experienced the maximum heat it's likely to see, then the
cracks might go no further. If that's the case, I wouldn't worry about
it -
those are pretty small cracks.

Even with these sizable cracks I was able to make a consistent 15 psi,
and
very stable, so there wasn't much loss of pressure.

Mel

...........................o~`o
WHEEZY
----- Original Message -----
From: (email redacted)
To: mel hoagland
Cc: (email redacted)
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: 1.6 turbo manifold design changed?

So the sheer likelihood of me putting this all back together and having
it
crack doesn't seem likely? Heh, wish I could believe that. :) Murphy
is
my mechanic....

I must say, though, the way you run Wheezy, the Sub doesn't see NEAR
the
track running....

Hmmm...

Wallyman





"mel hoagland"

<mhoaglan@maine.r

r.com>
To

<(email redacted)>

08/02/2005 10:42
cc

AM


Subject

Re: 1.6 turbo manifold design

changed?











Wallyman,

Are the cracks leaking at all? I had cracks in my original manifold
that
were much larger and more extensive, by an order of magnitude, than
what
you show in the photos. Lasted a couple of years that way, and Les
would
point them out every time Wheezy was in for TLC. Eventually they gave
way
and a chunk the size of my thumb blew out. Had to happen at Watkins
Glen,
of course. Thankfully, I had already started to tow Wheezy to the gigs.

So bottom line is, I wouldn't worry, mate.

Mel

...........................o~`o
WHEEZY
----- Original Message -----
From: (email redacted)
To: (email redacted)
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 10:05 AM
Subject: 1.6 turbo manifold design changed?

Got a reply from BEGi on repairing my cracked manifold... when it
rains:

Walt,
The manifold is repairable. However, any repairs made will probably
only
last about one year. The repair cost is $225 to $275. We will have to
fix
the cracks, then re-machine the manifold. It will take approximately 2
1/2
to 3 1/2 hours to fix, depending on casting quality.

Another option is to replace it with the new style 1.6 manifold. The
new
style is drilled for a T28 turbo. Corky says it should fit. You would
have
to drill and tap the hole for the fitting. However, if any changes are
made
to the manifold after it leaves our office, it will void the warranty.

Sooooooooo, anyone know what the "new manifold" looks like compared to
me
old one? Just wondering... no price yet, anyone have a used 1.6
manifold
they don't need?

Wallyman

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)


"I can tell you that Jess' tuning has lowered EGT's a bit at cruise, I
didn't have time to really
notice at boost but I assume there too."

Please elaborate. What did Jess have you changing? A/F? Timing? Details,
details!

Jim in Tucson


In a message dated 8/2/05 8:25:11 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
(email redacted) writes:

Left one at Hobart, let's see what comes of that.. sounds like I could be
'fat dumb and happy' just putting it back on. I can tell you that Jess'
tuning has lowered EGT's a bit at cruise, I didn't have time to really
notice at boost but I assume there too.

As to DP, I've gotten those repaired in the past and they hold up, I'm not
the least worried about that part. That's the easy/cheap one.

I agree the new DP might be a great solution, but $460 (what happened to
$395??) is far beyond my "things I can buy" fund.. which currently is at
-$325 and counting. And the new one for the 1.6 is not even cast.. still a
fabricated welded part apparently. No, the DP is fine and I can get that
mopped up without too much concern. I'm not even thinking about that.. the
turbo and manifold, those are really bugging me tho.

This whole repair is really making me crabby... and broke. Feel like I
should just order a new FM-II kit for $3500.. jezzz.. BOV I just replaced,
new DP style, working BB turbo, uncracked new style manifold.. I wouldn't
need injectors or IC (hell, even the newer IC could be used, better mounts)
so I;d have injectors and some IC piping... sad.

Wallyman






Regie L Bryant
<rbryant@duke-ene
rgy.com> To
(email redacted)
08/02/2005 10:52 cc
AM (email redacted)
Subject
Re: 1.6 turbo manifold design
changed?










Wally,

As part of your research, go to the www.hobartwelders.com\mboard forum and
under Projects post a newbie question with the pictures of the DP and
manifold cracks and tell them the DP is mild steel and the manifold is
cast. Ask them for recommendations of a shop that could fix them right in
your area. One of the regulars on that board goes by Sberry and he is a
sharp cookie on welding and he also lives in MI somewhere, so I think you
can get pointed towards a local shop that could quote you on the repairs.
I'm thinking Corky may not want to stop regular production to do a repair,
and it is reflected in his pricing, but I could be wrong, and this
suggestion is just to get hopefully another informed opinion and quote.

One of my track buddies DP cracked about like yours. At that point I
tried welding it and could only blow bigger holes in it. He had a local
shop weld it back and it cracked again. (He then went to a tubular
manifold with a different DP design and the tubular manifold has cracked
twice right in the welding HAZ where the DP's crack. It is my opinion that
for longevity cast is the way to go.)

A few months later when my DP cracked (about like yours), I picked up the
phone and called Bill and Terri. Yes, the new FM cast DP is not cheap, but
it definitely solves the problem. With tracked cars those old-style DP's
are going to break, it is simply a matter of when, not if.

I know this doesn't answer your direct question, but I didn't know the
answer. :-)

Regie



Walt_Helsel@URSCo
rp.com
To
08/02/2005 10:05 (email redacted)
AM cc

Subject
1.6 turbo manifold design changed?










Got a reply from BEGi on repairing my cracked manifold... when it rains:

Walt,
The manifold is repairable. However, any repairs made will probably only
last about one year. The repair cost is $225 to $275. We will have to fix
the cracks, then re-machine the manifold. It will take approximately 2 1/2
to 3 1/2 hours to fix, depending on casting quality.

Another option is to replace it with the new style 1.6 manifold. The new
style is drilled for a T28 turbo. Corky says it should fit. You would have
to drill and tap the hole for the fitting. However, if any changes are made
to the manifold after it leaves our office, it will void the warranty.

Sooooooooo, anyone know what the "new manifold" looks like compared to me
old one? Just wondering... no price yet, anyone have a used 1.6 manifold
they don't need?

Wallyman