Miata List Archive

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Mail From: keith (Keith Tanner)

Seriously, Cadillac convertibles? As I mentioned earlier, it's about
mitigating risk. It's unlikely that sporty driving is really a focus
of Cadillac owners, even the ones that zig. So they don't consider
there to be any risk, and thus no roll bars. Meanwhile, a very large
percentage of Miata owners drive in a sporty manner, if not actual
competition. And those who compete tend to have a bias towards safety
equipment.

. If simple aesthetics were driving the sales, we'd all be running
around with the less-effective Deuce instead of Hard Cores. But the
"real" rollbars outsell the style-led ones. Weird.

Z3 owners take out the stock hoops and put in real roll bars, at an
aesthetic cost.

Keith

On 9/12/07, Robert McElwee <miatamail at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ugh, you guys are trying to drag me back into this <G>. How many convertable
> Caddy's have you seen with a roll bar? None, since they don't look good with
> them. Same with the Miata. If it didn't look so damn good you wouldn't see
> near as many. Something about a roll bar just makes a Miata look better. I
> think that probably drives sales and attitudes. I'd stick a roll bar in my
> Miata in a skinny minute, but let me buy a '63 Vette and there is no way I
> would put one in it.
>
> So hows the roll bar working out for you. I almost broke even selling my
> HDHCDD to you and replacing it with the slightly lighter cross your heart HD
> Xtreme. It took me a while to do both transactions without any shipping but
> the trade was worth it to me.
>
> Oh, did I just screw up and tell everyone that I sold the ultra safe DD roll
> bar and got one more apt to dig in the ground and decapitate me. Hmm...
>
>
>
> On 9/12/07, Mike Rollins <miatainsc at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Actually Robert, all Shelby convertibles, to my knowledge, came with roll
> bars. Looked great, served the purpose. I'm sure they saved a few lives
> back then too...
> >
> > You should know I'm an advocate of roll bars - I bought mine from you!! :D
> >
> > Later,
> > Mike
> > '92 B&T
> >
> >
> > On 9/12/07, Robert McElwee <miatamail at gmail.com > wrote:
> > >
> > > I said it looked like a turd but I really actually never saw one! I
> would say that with the exception of those who race, you won't find many
> classic Stangs with roll bars. I bet it was run to drive!
> > >
> > >
> > > On 9/12/07, pethier at comcast.net < pethier at comcast.net> wrote:
> > > > >The
> > > > > truth is the a Miata looks damn good with a roll bar or style bar. A
> > > > > convertible Mustang looks like a turd with one and that is why I
> have never
> > > > > seen a 64 1/2 driving down the road sporting a double diagonal.
> > > >
> > > > A guy I used to know had a red first-gen Mustang full of Shelby parts,
> sporting a black roll bar. I thought it looked damn good. Handled like an
> enormous go-kart, too. I drove it in a few autocrosses, and it was fun.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA
> > > > 1962 Triumph TR4 CT2846L, 1992 Saturn SL2, 1993 Suburban,
> > > > 1994 Miata C package
> > > > pethier [at] comcast [dot] net
> forum.mnautox.com/forums/
> > > > flickr.com/photos/pethier
> > > > I decry the textmessagization of the American-English language.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Robert McElwee and Red Beast
> > > 1991 T25 Turbo @ 15 PSI
> > > Link ECU, FM IC, 9:1 pistons
> > > Over 350 lbs of "added lightness"
> > > www.lightweightmiata.com
> > >
> > > Lightweight Miata Forum:
> > > lightweightmiata.com/forum
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Miata mailing list
> > > Miata at list.realbig.com
> > > list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Robert McElwee and Red Beast
> 1991 T25 Turbo @ 15 PSI
> Link ECU, FM IC, 9:1 pistons
> Over 350 lbs of "added lightness"
> www.lightweightmiata.com
>
> Lightweight Miata Forum:
> lightweightmiata.com/forum
> _______________________________________________
> Miata mailing list
> Miata at list.realbig.com
> list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
>
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: miatamail (Robert McElwee)

I would consider the Caddy to be less safe than the Miata. Whether on not
that means it needs a roll bar, I am not sure. But, once again we come back
to sporty/competitive driving. If you race your car a roll bar is a great
idea. That doesn't mean I need one in my daily driver to go to work.

As mentioned a few minutes ago, I sold my Hard Core for the more "stylish"
Xtreme. Weird.

As far as the Z3, I've never seen one with the top down so I wouldn't know
what they have under there <G>.

Anyway, I really didn't want to start arguing with you guys, so I'll hang my
head and drop out of the thread again. Being "anti-roll bar", if you can
call it that because I really see no problems with them, is hard to do
around here. Reminds me of a philosophy teacher that I had that didn't
believe in Pangea / Continental Drift. He caught hell all the time (and
rightly so in my mind) but that is what he believe and he voiced his
opinion. Nothing could convince him otherwise. Likewise, I can't be
converted and I really don't want to get anyone worked up over it any
longer. Thanks for the lively debate. It has been much more enjoyable than
the WAR threads that are going on right now.


On 9/13/07, Keith Tanner <keith at miata.net> wrote:
>
> Seriously, Cadillac convertibles? As I mentioned earlier, it's about
> mitigating risk. It's unlikely that sporty driving is really a focus
> of Cadillac owners, even the ones that zig. So they don't consider
> there to be any risk, and thus no roll bars. Meanwhile, a very large
> percentage of Miata owners drive in a sporty manner, if not actual
> competition. And those who compete tend to have a bias towards safety
> equipment.
>
> . If simple aesthetics were driving the sales, we'd all be running
> around with the less-effective Deuce instead of Hard Cores. But the
> "real" rollbars outsell the style-led ones. Weird.
>
> Z3 owners take out the stock hoops and put in real roll bars, at an
> aesthetic cost.
>
> Keith
>
> On 9/12/07, Robert McElwee <miatamail at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Ugh, you guys are trying to drag me back into this <G>. How many
> convertable
> > Caddy's have you seen with a roll bar? None, since they don't look good
> with
> > them. Same with the Miata. If it didn't look so damn good you wouldn't
> see
> > near as many. Something about a roll bar just makes a Miata look better.
> I
> > think that probably drives sales and attitudes. I'd stick a roll bar in
> my
> > Miata in a skinny minute, but let me buy a '63 Vette and there is no way
> I
> > would put one in it.
> >
> > So hows the roll bar working out for you. I almost broke even selling my
> > HDHCDD to you and replacing it with the slightly lighter cross your
> heart HD
> > Xtreme. It took me a while to do both transactions without any shipping
> but
> > the trade was worth it to me.
> >
> > Oh, did I just screw up and tell everyone that I sold the ultra safe DD
> roll
> > bar and got one more apt to dig in the ground and decapitate me. Hmm...
> >
> >
> >
> > On 9/12/07, Mike Rollins <miatainsc at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Actually Robert, all Shelby convertibles, to my knowledge, came with
> roll
> > bars. Looked great, served the purpose. I'm sure they saved a few
> lives
> > back then too...
> > >
> > > You should know I'm an advocate of roll bars - I bought mine from
> you!! :D
> > >
> > > Later,
> > > Mike
> > > '92 B&T
> > >
> > >
> > > On 9/12/07, Robert McElwee <miatamail at gmail.com > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I said it looked like a turd but I really actually never saw one! I
> > would say that with the exception of those who race, you won't find many
> > classic Stangs with roll bars. I bet it was run to drive!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 9/12/07, pethier at comcast.net < pethier at comcast.net> wrote:
> > > > > >The
> > > > > > truth is the a Miata looks damn good with a roll bar or style
> bar. A
> > > > > > convertible Mustang looks like a turd with one and that is why I
> > have never
> > > > > > seen a 64 1/2 driving down the road sporting a double diagonal.
> > > > >
> > > > > A guy I used to know had a red first-gen Mustang full of Shelby
> parts,
> > sporting a black roll bar. I thought it looked damn good. Handled like
> an
> > enormous go-kart, too. I drove it in a few autocrosses, and it was fun.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA
> > > > > 1962 Triumph TR4 CT2846L, 1992 Saturn SL2, 1993 Suburban,
> > > > > 1994 Miata C package
> > > > > pethier [at] comcast [dot] net
> > forum.mnautox.com/forums/
> > > > > flickr.com/photos/pethier
> > > > > I decry the textmessagization of the American-English language.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Robert McElwee and Red Beast
> > > > 1991 T25 Turbo @ 15 PSI
> > > > Link ECU, FM IC, 9:1 pistons
> > > > Over 350 lbs of "added lightness"
> > > > www.lightweightmiata.com
> > > >
> > > > Lightweight Miata Forum:
> > > > lightweightmiata.com/forum
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Miata mailing list
> > > > Miata at list.realbig.com
> > > > list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Robert McElwee and Red Beast
> > 1991 T25 Turbo @ 15 PSI
> > Link ECU, FM IC, 9:1 pistons
> > Over 350 lbs of "added lightness"
> > www.lightweightmiata.com
> >
> > Lightweight Miata Forum:
> > lightweightmiata.com/forum
> > _______________________________________________
> > Miata mailing list
> > Miata at list.realbig.com
> > list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
> >
> >
>



--
Robert McElwee and Red Beast
1991 T25 Turbo @ 15 PSI
Link ECU, FM IC, 9:1 pistons
Over 350 lbs of "added lightness"
www.lightweightmiata.com

Lightweight Miata Forum:
lightweightmiata.com/forum
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Mail From: miatainsc (Mike Rollins)

The HDHCDD is working out great. I've added roll bar padding to the
'important' parts and have called it a day. You'll remember that I'm short,
so coming in contact with the bar with the possible rear end collision is
VERY unlikely for me.

As far as looks go, I suppose it's all in what you like. Personally, I like
the way the HDHCDD looks over the HD Xtreme.

Granted, I think Chevrolet would provide a HUGE service to some of their
Corvette customers by offering a legitimate roll bar, especially for their
convertibles. Think of the bars that Audi and BMW offer on their TT convts
and Z4 convts. From what I've read, they work quite well. Then again, I
haven't tested them myself, so I *really* don't know...

Later,
Mike
'92 B&T

On 9/13/07, Robert McElwee <miatamail at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Ugh, you guys are trying to drag me back into this <G>. How many
> convertable Caddy's have you seen with a roll bar? None, since they don't
> look good with them. Same with the Miata. If it didn't look so damn good you
> wouldn't see near as many. Something about a roll bar just makes a Miata
> look better. I think that probably drives sales and attitudes. I'd stick a
> roll bar in my Miata in a skinny minute, but let me buy a '63 Vette and
> there is no way I would put one in it.
>
> So hows the roll bar working out for you. I almost broke even selling my
> HDHCDD to you and replacing it with the slightly lighter cross your heart HD
> Xtreme. It took me a while to do both transactions without any shipping but
> the trade was worth it to me.
>
> Oh, did I just screw up and tell everyone that I sold the ultra safe
> DD roll bar and got one more apt to dig in the ground and decapitate me.
> Hmm...
>
>
> On 9/12/07, Mike Rollins <miatainsc at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Actually Robert, all Shelby convertibles, to my knowledge, came with
> > roll bars. Looked great, served the purpose. I'm sure they saved a few
> > lives back then too...
> >
> > You should know I'm an advocate of roll bars - I bought mine from you!!
> > :D
> >
> > Later,
> > Mike
> > '92 B&T
> >
> > On 9/12/07, Robert McElwee <miatamail at gmail.com > wrote:
> > >
> > > I said it looked like a turd but I really actually never saw one! I
> > > would say that with the exception of those who race, you won't find many
> > > classic Stangs with roll bars. I bet it was run to drive!
> > >
> > > On 9/12/07, pethier at comcast.net < pethier at comcast.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >The
> > > > > truth is the a Miata looks damn good with a roll bar or style bar.
> > > > A
> > > > > convertible Mustang looks like a turd with one and that is why I
> > > > have never
> > > > > seen a 64 1/2 driving down the road sporting a double diagonal.
> > > >
> > > > A guy I used to know had a red first-gen Mustang full of Shelby
> > > > parts, sporting a black roll bar. I thought it looked damn good. Handled
> > > > like an enormous go-kart, too. I drove it in a few autocrosses, and it was
> > > > fun.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA
> > > > 1962 Triumph TR4 CT2846L, 1992 Saturn SL2, 1993 Suburban,
> > > > 1994 Miata C package
> > > > pethier [at] comcast [dot] net forum.mnautox.com/forums/
> > > > flickr.com/photos/pethier
> > > > I decry the textmessagization of the American-English language.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Robert McElwee and Red Beast
> > > 1991 T25 Turbo @ 15 PSI
> > > Link ECU, FM IC, 9:1 pistons
> > > Over 350 lbs of "added lightness"
> > > www.lightweightmiata.com
> > >
> > > Lightweight Miata Forum:
> > > lightweightmiata.com/forum
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Miata mailing list
> > > Miata at list.realbig.com
> > > list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
> Robert McElwee and Red Beast
> 1991 T25 Turbo @ 15 PSI
> Link ECU, FM IC, 9:1 pistons
> Over 350 lbs of "added lightness"
> www.lightweightmiata.com
>
> Lightweight Miata Forum:
> lightweightmiata.com/forum
>
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Mail From: gaspray (Gary Spray)

At 11:57 PM 9/12/2007, Robert McElwee wrote:
>Something about a roll bar just makes a Miata look better.

I disagree. It makes it look like a poseur.


Gary Spray
Topeka Kansas
Mazda Miata-CSP Solo 2
miataforum.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=45966
"To win is nice, to race is enough."
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Mail From: pethier (pethier

From: "Robert McElwee" <miatamail at gmail.com>
> I said it looked like a turd but I really actually never saw one! I would
> say that with the exception of those who race, you won't find many classic
> Stangs with roll bars. I bet it was run to drive!

It was an absolute blast. None of the understeer I have encountered in other ponycars.

> On 9/12/07, pethier at comcast.net <pethier at comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> > >The
> > > truth is the a Miata looks damn good with a roll bar or style bar. A
> > > convertible Mustang looks like a turd with one and that is why I have
> > never
> > > seen a 64 1/2 driving down the road sporting a double diagonal.
> >
> > A guy I used to know had a red first-gen Mustang full of Shelby parts,
> > sporting a black roll bar. I thought it looked damn good. Handled like an
> > enormous go-kart, too. I drove it in a few autocrosses, and it was fun.

--
Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA
1962 Triumph TR4 CT2846L, 1992 Saturn SL2, 1993 Suburban,
1994 Miata C package
pethier [at] comcast [dot] net forum.mnautox.com/forums/
flickr.com/photos/pethier
I decry the textmessagization of the American-English language.

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: majicj70 (Jeani Jessen)

I gotta have one of them big ole rolly things, with a gun rack, and maybe a sticker of a little kid pissing on ole Osama--oh, and don't forget my "Bush forever" sticker.
jeani

Gary Spray <gaspray at cox.net> wrote:
At 11:57 PM 9/12/2007, Robert McElwee wrote:
Something about a roll bar just makes a Miata look better.
I disagree. It makes it look like a poseur.

Gary Spray
Topeka Kansas
Mazda Miata-CSP Solo 2
miataforum.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentidE966
"To win is nice, to race is enough." _______________________________________________
Miata mailing list
Miata at list.realbig.com
list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata




Jeani Jessen
Owner, 1991 Miata A Package Silverstone
Restoration in progress--driven DAILY
Founder and President, Miata Club of Daytona Beach
Membership - 1

myspace.com/majicjeani





---------------------------------
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Mail From: majicj70 (Jeani Jessen)

Anyone want to hear how I totaled a GMC Yukon or whatever those HUGE SUV's are--with my little red Miata? Had to cut the "driver" out with the jaws of life--the thing rolled over about 5 times. Oh--my doors shut, my top latched and except for the airbag, neither me or my son was hurt.
A Miata is one of the safest cars on the road--I believe that, first hand
jeani

Robert McElwee <miatamail at gmail.com> wrote:
I would consider the Caddy to be less safe than the Miata. Whether on not that means it needs a roll bar, I am not sure. But, once again we come back to sporty/competitive driving. If you race your car a roll bar is a great idea. That doesn't mean I need one in my daily driver to go to work.

As mentioned a few minutes ago, I sold my Hard Core for the more "stylish" Xtreme. Weird.

As far as the Z3, I've never seen one with the top down so I wouldn't know what they have under there <G>.

Anyway, I really didn't want to start arguing with you guys, so I'll hang my head and drop out of the thread again. Being "anti-roll bar", if you can call it that because I really see no problems with them, is hard to do around here. Reminds me of a philosophy teacher that I had that didn't believe in Pangea / Continental Drift. He caught hell all the time (and rightly so in my mind) but that is what he believe and he voiced his opinion. Nothing could convince him otherwise. Likewise, I can't be converted and I really don't want to get anyone worked up over it any longer. Thanks for the lively debate. It has been much more enjoyable than the WAR threads that are going on right now.


On 9/13/07, Keith Tanner <keith at miata.net> wrote: Seriously, Cadillac convertibles? As I mentioned earlier, it's about
mitigating risk. It's unlikely that sporty driving is really a focus
of Cadillac owners, even the ones that zig. So they don't consider
there to be any risk, and thus no roll bars. Meanwhile, a very large
percentage of Miata owners drive in a sporty manner, if not actual
competition. And those who compete tend to have a bias towards safety
equipment.

. If simple aesthetics were driving the sales, we'd all be running
around with the less-effective Deuce instead of Hard Cores. But the
"real" rollbars outsell the style-led ones. Weird.

Z3 owners take out the stock hoops and put in real roll bars, at an
aesthetic cost.

Keith

On 9/12/07, Robert McElwee <miatamail at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ugh, you guys are trying to drag me back into this <G>. How many convertable
> Caddy's have you seen with a roll bar? None, since they don't look good with
> them. Same with the Miata. If it didn't look so damn good you wouldn't see
> near as many. Something about a roll bar just makes a Miata look better. I
> think that probably drives sales and attitudes. I'd stick a roll bar in my
> Miata in a skinny minute, but let me buy a '63 Vette and there is no way I
> would put one in it.
>
> So hows the roll bar working out for you. I almost broke even selling my
> HDHCDD to you and replacing it with the slightly lighter cross your heart HD
> Xtreme. It took me a while to do both transactions without any shipping but
> the trade was worth it to me.
>
> Oh, did I just screw up and tell everyone that I sold the ultra safe DD roll
> bar and got one more apt to dig in the ground and decapitate me. Hmm...
>
>
>
> On 9/12/07, Mike Rollins <miatainsc at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Actually Robert, all Shelby convertibles, to my knowledge, came with roll
> bars. Looked great, served the purpose. I'm sure they saved a few lives
> back then too...
> >
> > You should know I'm an advocate of roll bars - I bought mine from you!! :D
> >
> > Later,
> > Mike
> > '92 B&T
> >
> >
> > On 9/12/07, Robert McElwee <miatamail at gmail.com > wrote:
> > >
> > > I said it looked like a turd but I really actually never saw one! I
> would say that with the exception of those who race, you won't find many
> classic Stangs with roll bars. I bet it was run to drive!
> > >
> > >
> > > On 9/12/07, pethier at comcast.net < pethier at comcast.net> wrote:
> > > > >The
> > > > > truth is the a Miata looks damn good with a roll bar or style bar. A
> > > > > convertible Mustang looks like a turd with one and that is why I
> have never
> > > > > seen a 64 1/2 driving down the road sporting a double diagonal.
> > > >
> > > > A guy I used to know had a red first-gen Mustang full of Shelby parts,
> sporting a black roll bar. I thought it looked damn good. Handled like an
> enormous go-kart, too. I drove it in a few autocrosses, and it was fun.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA
> > > > 1962 Triumph TR4 CT2846L, 1992 Saturn SL2, 1993 Suburban,
> > > > 1994 Miata C package
> > > > pethier [at] comcast [dot] net
> forum.mnautox.com/forums/
> > > > flickr.com/photos/pethier
> > > > I decry the textmessagization of the American-English language.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Robert McElwee and Red Beast
> > > 1991 T25 Turbo @ 15 PSI
> > > Link ECU, FM IC, 9:1 pistons
> > > Over 350 lbs of "added lightness"
> > > www.lightweightmiata.com
> > >
> > > Lightweight Miata Forum:
> > > lightweightmiata.com/forum
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Miata mailing list
> > > Miata at list.realbig.com
> > > list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Robert McElwee and Red Beast
> 1991 T25 Turbo @ 15 PSI
> Link ECU, FM IC, 9:1 pistons
> Over 350 lbs of "added lightness"
> www.lightweightmiata.com
>
> Lightweight Miata Forum:
> lightweightmiata.com/forum
> _______________________________________________
> Miata mailing list
> Miata at list.realbig.com
> list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
>
>




--
Robert McElwee and Red Beast
1991 T25 Turbo @ 15 PSI
Link ECU, FM IC, 9:1 pistons
Over 350 lbs of "added lightness"
www.lightweightmiata.com

Lightweight Miata Forum:
lightweightmiata.com/forum _______________________________________________
Miata mailing list
Miata at list.realbig.com
list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata



---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
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Mail From: ian (ian

On Sep 12, 2007 "Keith Tanner" wrote:
> A factor in that is that the Mustang has always been available as a
> coupe, which would be the performance choice. So the sort of person
> who considers a roll bar useful would be more likely to be in a coupe
> anyhow.

Strangely, most of the classic Mustangs I see have roll bars DESPITE
being coupes! Must be from going to the track with the Shelby club. :)

--Ian