Miata List Archive

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Mail From: berck (Berck E. Nash)

Just a little story, some of you might find interesting, nothing pertinent.

In an effort to get the rear camber more positive than -3.0, and quit
wearing out a set of Toyos in 12k miles, I bought some SuperPro offset
bushings from FM. They took awhile getting here, since FM was out, and
they came from Australia...

I finally got a chance to install them, and prove that I really don't
know anything about installing suspension bushings, or didn't. Getting
the lower control arms off was a piece of cake. I then thought I'd
remove the bushings with a C-clamp. Hah. Hah. If this can be done,
like some have claimed, they're far more clever with a C-clamp than I am.

I'm stubborn, though, and really didn't want to pay someone way too much
to do it for me. But there was no way I was going to get the bushings
out without more tools. And buying an oxy-acetylene torch seemed like
it might be the best idea, but that's rather pricey. A propane torch
might have worked well enough, I wasn't sure. But my car was already
apart, and I'd have to put it together, drive to Home Depot, etc...

So I stuck the control arms in my backpack and walked to the pep boys
2.5 miles away and paid them $70 to replace 4 bushings. It would have
been wicked expensive had I brought them the car.

Walking 5 miles with ~20lbs of control arms on your back isn't terribly
fun, but it was a nice day at least.

I've gotten them installed, but haven't had a chance to get an alignment
yet. I just put the alignment settings in the middle of the range in
the rear. I've also had to drive to/from work a couple of times since
I've done it, and I can't get it aligned for another couple of weeks at
least. Fortunately, as a flight attendant, I only drive to work once a
week...

There is far, far, less negative camber, according to my eyeballs. The
car also sits nearly an inch higher in the rear, something I wasn't
expecting. But it makes sense when you start with crazy rear camber.
It still looks like there's negative camber and toe in, but of course,
looks aren't really good for much.

The car is now all sorts of misbehaved. It's amazing what a wheel
alignment can do to or for you. The car does a weird shimmy thing when
I go over bumps, particularily when changing lanes over a bumpy surface,
and the car just feels really weird.. Can't be more specific than that
when I'm only driving it very, very cautiously.

The tires on it were shot when I started, and new ones won't go on until
I get the alignment. We'll see what kind of specs I get in the rear.
I'm happy so far, provided that my car acting funny is just a result of
the (lack of) alignment and nothing else.

Berck

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Mail From: keith (Keith Tanner)

I've never been able to get the bloody things out with a C-clamp either. I
also don't like burning them. You can do it with a really big vice, or my
favourite is to use a proper press. The hard part is getting the bushings
outs - squeezing the new ones in is best done with a vice I find. So (a
little late here) you really only had to slip someone a couple of bucks to
pop those old ones out.

Did you tighten up your suspension with the wheels hanging? The rubber
bushings don't like that. They'll be preloaded when you put the car back on
the wheels and it'll sit high. This isn't a problem with your new
SuperPros, but you still have rubber in the outer bushings on that lower
control arm as well as your shocks. Loosen off the appropriate bolts, roll
the car back and forth a bit then retighten. You'll want to do this before
the alignment.

Keith

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: berck (Berck E. Nash)

Keith Tanner wrote:

> I've never been able to get the bloody things out with a C-clamp either. I
> also don't like burning them. You can do it with a really big vice, or my
> favourite is to use a proper press. The hard part is getting the bushings
> outs - squeezing the new ones in is best done with a vice I find. So (a
> little late here) you really only had to slip someone a couple of bucks to
> pop those old ones out.

Well, I know $70 was too much, but they were the ONLY people I could
find willing to do it, much less in walking distance:) And they told me
$35/bushing on the phone. I was like, uhm, no way. Then I got them to
say $35 for the whole thing, since it was supposed to be $35/side, and
they were doing two half sides, since there's 4 bushings a side. When I
got there, they insisted it would be $70. Having just walked 2.5 miles
and really wanting to have it done, I agreed.

Pep boys also said they couldn't get them out with their press. So they
burned them out. Which means I paid $70 for shoddy workmanship as well:)

Had I access to a garage and more time, I wouldn't have given in. But I
need this done. I've GOT to get this car ready to go on a month-long
road trip or so:)

> Did you tighten up your suspension with the wheels hanging? The rubber
> bushings don't like that. They'll be preloaded when you put the car back on
> the wheels and it'll sit high. This isn't a problem with your new
> SuperPros, but you still have rubber in the outer bushings on that lower
> control arm as well as your shocks. Loosen off the appropriate bolts, roll
> the car back and forth a bit then retighten. You'll want to do this before
> the alignment.

Well, yes, I did.. This, of course, never occurred to me, since my
knowledge of suspension is somewhat limited, at best. And you didn't
mention it when I asked if there was anything I needed to watch out for,
either... You're supposed to be able to predict ALL my mistakes BEFORE
I make them:) Heheheh. I did it with the wheels off and the car on
jackstands, of course. I'm not sure I can get at all those bolts with
the car sitting on the wheels. Perhaps I can. Do I just need to loosen
the big bolt that goes through the axle assembly and lower control arm,
as well as the one holding the shock to the control arm? Probably the
sway bar bolts as well... I assume no need to do the eccentric bolts?
Just those three I mentioned, or am I forgetting one?

Thanks,
Berck

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Mail From: kentmclean (Kent McLean)

Berck wrote:
> So I stuck the control arms in my backpack and walked to the pep boys
> 2.5 miles away and paid them $70 to replace 4 bushings.

Ouch! That $70 would have bought a shop press from
Harbor Freight. Lots of HF's stuff is low quality, made
in China stuff, but I think it's fine for limited use home
mechanic duty.
harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=4711

Kent
'93 black-and-tan

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: keith (Keith Tanner)

>I'm not sure I can get at all those bolts with
>the car sitting on the wheels. Perhaps I can.

It's not easy, but it can be done. Another alternative is to put the car on
jackstands and lift the suspension arm in question with a jack. Lift until
it's just about to rise off the jackstand. You need to do this to any bolt
that has a rubber bushing on it - the outer control arm bolt, the lower
shock bolt, sway bar end links. Since you've got poly bushings on your
inner control arm bolts (the eccentrics), there's no need to go there.

Keith

------------
Keith's page de home:
keith.miata.net
------------

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Larry (Larry Alster)

Why not just put the wheels on ramps???

Larry

White Knight 1991 Crystal White #99 CSP
Silver Bullet 1992 Silverstone #17 EM BEGI System IV Turbo +
Honey B 1992 Sunburst Yellow

LowCountry Miata lowcountrymiataclub.net
Masters Miata
RAGS 074

----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Tanner" <(email redacted)>
To: <(email redacted)>
Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Miata] Offset Suspension Bushings


>
> >I'm not sure I can get at all those bolts with
> >the car sitting on the wheels. Perhaps I can.
>
> It's not easy, but it can be done. Another alternative is to put the car
on
> jackstands and lift the suspension arm in question with a jack. Lift until
> it's just about to rise off the jackstand. You need to do this to any bolt
> that has a rubber bushing on it - the outer control arm bolt, the lower
> shock bolt, sway bar end links. Since you've got poly bushings on your
> inner control arm bolts (the eccentrics), there's no need to go there.
>
> Keith
>
> ------------
> Keith's page de home:
> keith.miata.net
> ------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Miata mailing list
> (email redacted)
> realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: keith (Keith Tanner)

>Why not just put the wheels on ramps???

Yeah, that would work :) I don't like ramps myself, they're my least
favourite way to raise a car and they don't usually work well with ones as
low as mine. So I forgot about them...

Keith

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Larry (Larry Alster)

Jack the car up and put the ramps under the wheels and lower the car on it.

Instant "floor" under the wheels with clearance under the car!

Larry

White Knight 1991 Crystal White #99 CSP
Silver Bullet 1992 Silverstone #17 EM BEGI System IV Turbo +
Honey B 1992 Sunburst Yellow

LowCountry Miata lowcountrymiataclub.net
Masters Miata
RAGS 074

----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Tanner" <(email redacted)>
To: <(email redacted)>
Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Miata] Offset Suspension Bushings


>
> >Why not just put the wheels on ramps???
>
> Yeah, that would work :) I don't like ramps myself, they're my least
> favourite way to raise a car and they don't usually work well with ones as
> low as mine. So I forgot about them...
>
> Keith
>
> _______________________________________________
> Miata mailing list
> (email redacted)
> realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Scot Zediker <roadsterboy (Scot Zediker)

What I do is put a couple of wood blocks at the bottom of the ramps. That gets the nose high enough to clear the ramps.

I now have to do this with both of our cars, now that I've lowered mine. Wifey's Sebring needs the blocks cuz it has a ridiculous amount of front overhang.

Scot

-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Alster <(email redacted)>
Sent: Nov 9, 2003 2:33 PM
To: (email redacted), Keith Tanner <(email redacted)>
Subject: Re: [Miata] Offset Suspension Bushings

charset="iso-8859-1"

Jack the car up and put the ramps under the wheels and lower the car on it.

Instant "floor" under the wheels with clearance under the car!

Larry

White Knight 1991 Crystal White #99 CSP
Silver Bullet 1992 Silverstone #17 EM BEGI System IV Turbo +
Honey B 1992 Sunburst Yellow

LowCountry Miata lowcountrymiataclub.net
Masters Miata
RAGS 074

----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Tanner" <(email redacted)>
To: <(email redacted)>
Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Miata] Offset Suspension Bushings


>
> >Why not just put the wheels on ramps???
>
> Yeah, that would work :) I don't like ramps myself, they're my least
> favourite way to raise a car and they don't usually work well with ones as
> low as mine. So I forgot about them...
>
> Keith
>
> _______________________________________________
> Miata mailing list
> (email redacted)
> realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata

_______________________________________________
Miata mailing list
(email redacted)
realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: berck (Berck E. Nash)

Larry Alster wrote:

> Why not just put the wheels on ramps???

Don't have any other use for ramps, so I don't have them?

The jack idea is nice. Means I have to buy nothing else. I could also
stick some wood blocks under the wheels...

Thanks guys! This probably explains all the weird shimmying I'm getting
over bumps...

Berck