Miata List Archive

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Mail From: phredd5 (Phredd)



The bigger they are, the harder they file.


epilot2.hamptonroads.com/Repository/ml.asp?Ref=VmlyZ2luaWFuUGlsb3QvMj
AwNS8xMS8xNiNBcjA0NTAw
&Mode=Gif&Locale=english-skin-custom


For AOL users: <a
href="epilot2.hamptonroads.com/Repository/ml.asp?Ref=VmlyZ2luaWFuUGls
b3QvMjAwNS8xMS8xNiNBcjA0NTAw
&Mode=Gif&Locale=english-skin-custom">epilot2.hamptonroads.com/Reposi
tory/ml.asp?Ref=VmlyZ2luaWFuUGlsb3QvMjAwNS8xMS8xNiNBcjA0NTAw
&Mode=Gif&Locale=english-skin-custom</a>

Keep the Revs up!
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Phredd ? '93A, "Mr.Redd" ? Nawfuk, Virginny

God's Miata is Red!


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Mail From: equiraptor (Monica Harrison)

A shorter version of the url:
lnk.nu/epilot2.hamptonroads.com/62q.asp


On 16-Nov-2005, Phredd wrote:
>
>
> The bigger they are, the harder they file.
>
>
> epilot2.hamptonroads.com/Repository/ml.asp?Ref=VmlyZ2luaWFuUGlsb3QvMj
> AwNS8xMS8xNiNBcjA0NTAw
> &Mode=Gif&Locale=english-skin-custom
>
>
> For AOL users: <a
> href="epilot2.hamptonroads.com/Repository/ml.asp?Ref=VmlyZ2luaWFuUGls
> b3QvMjAwNS8xMS8xNiNBcjA0NTAw
> &Mode=Gif&Locale=english-skin-custom">epilot2.hamptonroads.com/Reposi
> tory/ml.asp?Ref=VmlyZ2luaWFuUGlsb3QvMjAwNS8xMS8xNiNBcjA0NTAw
> &Mode=Gif&Locale=english-skin-custom</a>
>
> Keep the Revs up!
> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> Phredd ? '93A, "Mr.Redd" ? Nawfuk, Virginny
>
> God's Miata is Red!
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: totdots (Jamie Ruderman)

Hmmm... I wonder what would happen to SAAB... It would be nice if they
could buy themselves out and be independent again... but they'd
probably just get picked up by another car company.

Jamie.

--- Monica Harrison <(email redacted)> wrote:

> A shorter version of the url:
> lnk.nu/epilot2.hamptonroads.com/62q.asp

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: the.jack (the.jack)

Boy, they appear to be in big trouble. I'm not a big fan of GM,
but competition is good thing. Ford and Dodge could use a kick in the
pants once in a while and having three domestics helps that. Also, as
Jamie mentioned, I'd hate to see Saab crap out as a result - GM's
ruining them as it is.

Chris C.
===================================
99 Mazda Miata 5-sp
97 Dodge Ramwagon 3.9 slush-o-matic
97 Saab 900 Talladega 5-sp
91 XJ 4.0HO 30s

> -----Original Message-----
> From: (email redacted)
> [mailto:(email redacted)] On Behalf Of Monica Harrison
> Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 11.32
> To: MiataList address
> Subject: Re: [Miata] NMC [unless you count all the sales
> Mazda will pick up]
>
> A shorter version of the url:
> lnk.nu/epilot2.hamptonroads.com/62q.asp

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: nik586 (MH)

Why the Saab sympathy? (Saab is basically a nonentity in western Canada.)

Marvin
-----Original Message-----
From: (email redacted) [mailto:(email redacted)] On Behalf
Of the.jack
Sent: November 16, 2005 10:56 AM
To: Miata List
Subject: RE: [Miata] NMC [unless you count all the sales Mazda will pick up]

Boy, they appear to be in big trouble. I'm not a big fan of GM, but
competition is good thing. Ford and Dodge could use a kick in the pants
once in a while and having three domestics helps that. Also, as Jamie
mentioned, I'd hate to see Saab crap out as a result - GM's ruining them as
it is.

Chris C.
===================================
99 Mazda Miata 5-sp
97 Dodge Ramwagon 3.9 slush-o-matic
97 Saab 900 Talladega 5-sp
91 XJ 4.0HO 30s

> -----Original Message-----
> From: (email redacted)
> [mailto:(email redacted)] On Behalf Of Monica Harrison
> Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 11.32
> To: MiataList address
> Subject: Re: [Miata] NMC [unless you count all the sales Mazda will
> pick up]
>
> A shorter version of the url:
> lnk.nu/epilot2.hamptonroads.com/62q.asp


_______________________________________________
Miata mailing list
(email redacted)
ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: poneal (P

Phredd wrote:
> The bigger they are, the harder they file.
>
>
> epilot2.hamptonroads.com/Repository/ml.asp?Ref=VmlyZ2luaWFuUGlsb3QvMj
> AwNS8xMS8xNiNBcjA0NTAw
> &Mode=Gif&Locale=english-skin-custom
>
>
> For AOL users: <a
> href="epilot2.hamptonroads.com/Repository/ml.asp?Ref=VmlyZ2luaWFuUGls
> b3QvMjAwNS8xMS8xNiNBcjA0NTAw
> &Mode=Gif&Locale=english-skin-custom">epilot2.hamptonroads.com/Reposi
> tory/ml.asp?Ref=VmlyZ2luaWFuUGlsb3QvMjAwNS8xMS8xNiNBcjA0NTAw
> &Mode=Gif&Locale=english-skin-custom</a>
>

And for everyone else that doesn't want to mess with wrapping URLs,
tinyurl.com/ar5d2

Now, Phredd... I don't get your point, "The bigger they are, the harder they
file"? Please explain.

Pat.

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: the.jack (the.jack)

I like the older, odd hatchbacks. Not really old (not the boxy
ones), mind you, just through the killing of the NG 900/93s that "look
like Saabs", now they are all sedans, heavy, soft, lower performing
really expensive... My wife's car is nice on many accounts, great gas
mileage, lots of torque, but good top end, nimble, good steering feel,
etc, etc. It's no Miata, but for a "big" FWD car it drives very well -
IMO top two FWDers I've ever driven.

Chris C.
===================================
99 Mazda Miata 5-sp
97 Dodge Ramwagon 3.9 slush-o-matic
97 Saab 900 Talladega 5-sp
91 XJ 4.0HO 30s

> -----Original Message-----
> From: (email redacted)
> [mailto:(email redacted)] On Behalf Of MH
> Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 12.06
> To: (email redacted)
> Subject: RE: [Miata] NMC [unless you count all the sales
> Mazda will pick up]
>
> Why the Saab sympathy? (Saab is basically a nonentity in
> western Canada.)
>
> Marvin

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: luxvivens (Steve Parrott)

Note in the photo all you see is a line of huge pick up trucks. The
local Chevy dealer here is a sea of TRUCKS, and of course lots of SUVs
also. I can't help but feel GM has put themselves into much of their
woes. Just cut WAY back on building the big gas guzzlers and
concentrate on small cars. I know it is not all that simple to do, that
the American "auto" industry has been so embedded with selling huge
vehicles for so long that it is hard to just *stop* building them. It
seems that the public has FINALLY reached a point that they don't want
to keep receiving huge gas bills to stroke their ego with ridiculously
large vehicles. I DON'T want to get into the whole we have the freedom
to drive whatever we WANT argument again, that is not the point. The
point is LOTS of people no longer WANT the large vehicles, but it seems
the manufacturers just keep cranking them out by the droves.

Actually, the American auto industry has never really been based on
common sense, i.e. the monster cars of the 50s, the muscle cars of the
60s, but it is now really hitting the public in the pocket book every
time they go to the gas pumps.

Just my opinion.
Steve
2002 black / tan 6 speed

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: the.jack (the.jack)

Steve, I think it's a good point :)

Chris C.
===================================
99 Mazda Miata 5-sp
97 Dodge Ramwagon 3.9 slush-o-matic
97 Saab 900 Talladega 5-sp
91 XJ 4.0HO 30s

> -----Original Message-----
> From: (email redacted)
> [mailto:(email redacted)] On Behalf Of Steve Parrott
> Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 12.18
> To: unlisted-recipients:; no To-header on input
> Cc: Miata List
> Subject: Re: [Miata] NMC [unless you count all the sales
> Mazda will pick up]
>
>
> Note in the photo all you see is a line of huge pick up trucks. The
> local Chevy dealer here is a sea of TRUCKS, and of course
> lots of SUVs
> also. I can't help but feel GM has put themselves into much of their
> woes. Just cut WAY back on building the big gas guzzlers and
> concentrate on small cars. I know it is not all that simple
> to do, that
> the American "auto" industry has been so embedded with selling huge
> vehicles for so long that it is hard to just *stop* building them. It
> seems that the public has FINALLY reached a point that they
> don't want
> to keep receiving huge gas bills to stroke their ego with
> ridiculously
> large vehicles. I DON'T want to get into the whole we have
> the freedom
> to drive whatever we WANT argument again, that is not the point. The
> point is LOTS of people no longer WANT the large vehicles,
> but it seems
> the manufacturers just keep cranking them out by the droves.
>
> Actually, the American auto industry has never really been based on
> common sense, i.e. the monster cars of the 50s, the muscle
> cars of the
> 60s, but it is now really hitting the public in the pocket book every
> time they go to the gas pumps.
>
> Just my opinion.
> Steve
> 2002 black / tan 6 speed
>
> _______________________________________________
> Miata mailing list
> (email redacted)
> ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: poneal (P

Pat O'Neal wrote:
>> Phredd wrote:
>> Now, Phredd... I don't get your point, "The bigger they are, the
>> harder they file"? Please explain.
>>
>> Pat.
>>

OK, now I see what happened: the wrapping URL got me. It took me to that
site, but not to the correct page. I got the Solstice review, not the GM
article.

Yes, it's troubling to see this kind of talk about GM, but really - is it
all that surprising? They've been giving vehicles away for almost two years
now, and with the recent gas price hikes, their bread-and-butter - SUVs and
pickups - fell on the floor, butter side down. The company I work for
westinautomotive.com makes aftermarket accessories for SUVs and
pickups and let me tell you - business sucks. We are just barely keeping up
with the necessary downsizing to keep the company afloat. Somehow, I've
managed to keep my job but there are no guarantees whatsoever. SUVs and
pickups have been the hot ticket for so long, but it's SO over now. GM
didn't get the message and just kept building them. Then when gas prices
spiked, suddenly they have a huge inventory of vehicles nobody wants. Their
recent "chrome wheel" giveaway smacks of a pathetic attempt to move product,
only slightly less pathetic than the public's desire for huge chome wheels.
I hope they can adjust quickly enough to survive.

Pat.

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: totdots (Jamie Ruderman)

I like the Swedish cars... I've got a 98 900 turbo that I think
complements my Miata nicely. And they were a unique car company that
have been tainted by GM. It would be nice to have them independent
again and going down their own path once more. I appreciate things done
different just for the sake of being different. Keeps it interesting.
:)

Jamie.

--- "the.jack" <(email redacted)> wrote:

> I like the older, odd hatchbacks. Not really old (not the boxy
> ones), mind you, just through the killing of the NG 900/93s that
> "look
> like Saabs", now they are all sedans, heavy, soft, lower performing
> really expensive... My wife's car is nice on many accounts, great
> gas
> mileage, lots of torque, but good top end, nimble, good steering
> feel,
> etc, etc. It's no Miata, but for a "big" FWD car it drives very well
> -
> IMO top two FWDers I've ever driven.
>
> Chris C.
> ===================================
> 99 Mazda Miata 5-sp
> 97 Dodge Ramwagon 3.9 slush-o-matic
> 97 Saab 900 Talladega 5-sp
> 91 XJ 4.0HO 30s
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: (email redacted)
> > [mailto:(email redacted)] On Behalf Of MH
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 12.06
> > To: (email redacted)
> > Subject: RE: [Miata] NMC [unless you count all the sales
> > Mazda will pick up]
> >
> > Why the Saab sympathy? (Saab is basically a nonentity in
> > western Canada.)
> >
> > Marvin
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Miata mailing list
> (email redacted)
> ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: the.jack (the.jack)

I agree 100%!

Chris C.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jamie Ruderman [mailto:(email redacted)]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 14.40
> To: the.jack; Miata List
> Subject: RE: [Miata] NMC [unless you count all the sales
> Mazda will pick up]
>
>
> I like the Swedish cars... I've got a 98 900 turbo that I
> think complements my Miata nicely. And they were a unique car
> company that have been tainted by GM. It would be nice to
> have them independent again and going down their own path
> once more. I appreciate things done different just for the
> sake of being different. Keeps it interesting.
> :)
>
> Jamie.

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: bigmouthjohn ((email redacted))

Amen, Jamie...

My OTM is a '91 Saab 900 SPG, one of only 254 imported that year. Quirky, but totally reliable. Fun car!

--
John Hammer

Creative Director
BigMouthAudio.com

"Forgive your enemies. It messes up their heads."

-------------- Original message --------------

> I like the Swedish cars... I've got a 98 900 turbo that I think
> complements my Miata nicely. And they were a unique car company that
> have been tainted by GM. It would be nice to have them independent
> again and going down their own path once more. I appreciate things done
> different just for the sake of being different. Keeps it interesting.
> :)
>
> Jamie.
>
> --- "the.jack" wrote:
>
> > I like the older, odd hatchbacks. Not really old (not the boxy
> > ones), mind you, just through the killing of the NG 900/93s that
> > "look
> > like Saabs", now they are all sedans, heavy, soft, lower performing
> > really expensive... My wife's car is nice on many accounts, great
> > gas
> > mileage, lots of torque, but good top end, nimble, good steering
> > feel,
> > etc, etc. It's no Miata, but for a "big" FWD car it drives very well
> > -
> > IMO top two FWDers I've ever driven.
> >
> > Chris C.
> > ===================================
> > 99 Mazda Miata 5-sp
> > 97 Dodge Ramwagon 3.9 slush-o-matic
> > 97 Saab 900 Talladega 5-sp
> > 91 XJ 4.0HO 30s
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: (email redacted)
> > > [mailto:(email redacted)] On Behalf Of MH
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 12.06
> > > To: (email redacted)
> > > Subject: RE: [Miata] NMC [unless you count all the sales
> > > Mazda will pick up]
> > >
> > > Why the Saab sympathy? (Saab is basically a nonentity in
> > > western Canada.)
> > >
> > > Marvin
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Miata mailing list
> > (email redacted)
> > ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Miata mailing list
> (email redacted)
> ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
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Mail From: Subhunter (Hank)

>The bigger they are, the harder they file.



"File".. har har har They produce those low quality freekin' land yachts
that can't
pass a gas station and then can't seem to figure out why they're loosing
market share. Those who will not learn from history are doomed to repeat
it... or somethin' like that..


Hank & the Scandalously Striped Silver '99
Curmudgeon Racing
Deep in the Heart of Dragon Country
Murphy, Nawth Carolina

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: rmcelwee (rmcelwee)

I'm not an expert at all on GM's troubles, I'm just going by what I have
heard (mostly on Bob Brinker's weekend radio show). GM sales are at record
levels (employee discount program, etc). The problem is that they lose money
on each vehicle sold due to extremely high employee benefit costs. The GM
gave huge benefit packages (i.e. free healthcare) to the unions instead of
pay increases. The cost of healthcare skyrocketed and that has caused their
problem. When wage/benefits are $100,000 year for each employee you can't
help but lose money.

Note that I still believe that big trucks and SUVs will lead to sales losses
at some point (but we are not there yet).

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hank" <(email redacted)>
To: "Miata List" <(email redacted)>
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Miata] NMC [unless you count all the sales Mazda will pick up]


> >The bigger they are, the harder they file.
>
>
>
> "File".. har har har They produce those low quality freekin' land
yachts
> that can't
> pass a gas station and then can't seem to figure out why they're loosing
> market share. Those who will not learn from history are doomed to repeat
> it... or somethin' like that..
>
>
> Hank & the Scandalously Striped Silver '99
> Curmudgeon Racing
> Deep in the Heart of Dragon Country
> Murphy, Nawth Carolina
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Miata mailing list
> (email redacted)
> ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: keith (Keith Tanner)


>Note that I still believe that big trucks and SUVs will lead to sales losses
>at some point (but we are not there yet).

Not there yet? Any automaker with a high percentage of trucks in their
offerings saw massive sales drops in the last few months. Sales of the
Escalade are down by 49%. GM light truck sales overall fell by 30% in
October compared to last year.

Ford saw sales drop 20% in September when compared with 2004, then 23% in
October. Sales of the Exploder/Extruder/Excommunicator SUVs are down over
50% while the F-series pickups dropped by 30%.

Meanwhile, Honda and Toyota posted gains in sales.

So, when do the big trucks and SUVs lead to sales losses? Granted, some of
this is the hangover from the "employee pricing" party of the summer but
sales in the "light truck" category (including minivans) fell by 22% in
October for the entire market.

Keith

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: nogood123 (NoGood)

The Honda posts sales gains because it is a very solid vehicle with
good fit and finish that feels almost carlike in it's handling AND gets
great gas mileage.

No it won't haul 7,000 pounds but how many people really do?


On Nov 16, 2005, at 4:58 PM, Keith Tanner wrote:

>
>> Note that I still believe that big trucks and SUVs will lead to sales
>> losses
>> at some point (but we are not there yet).
>
> Not there yet? Any automaker with a high percentage of trucks in their
> offerings saw massive sales drops in the last few months. Sales of the
> Escalade are down by 49%. GM light truck sales overall fell by 30% in
> October compared to last year.
>
> Ford saw sales drop 20% in September when compared with 2004, then 23%
> in October. Sales of the Exploder/Extruder/Excommunicator SUVs are
> down over 50% while the F-series pickups dropped by 30%.
>
> Meanwhile, Honda and Toyota posted gains in sales.
>
> So, when do the big trucks and SUVs lead to sales losses? Granted,
> some of this is the hangover from the "employee pricing" party of the
> summer but sales in the "light truck" category (including minivans)
> fell by 22% in October for the entire market.
>
> Keith
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Miata mailing list
> (email redacted)
> ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: andymon (Andymon)

Great. And I'm trying to sell my minivan....
---------Andymon

On 11/16/05, Keith Tanner <(email redacted)> wrote:
>
>
> >Note that I still believe that big trucks and SUVs will lead to sales
> losses
> >at some point (but we are not there yet).
>
> Not there yet? Any automaker with a high percentage of trucks in their
> offerings saw massive sales drops in the last few months. Sales of the
> Escalade are down by 49%. GM light truck sales overall fell by 30% in
> October compared to last year.
>
> Ford saw sales drop 20% in September when compared with 2004, then 23% in
> October. Sales of the Exploder/Extruder/Excommunicator SUVs are down over
> 50% while the F-series pickups dropped by 30%.
>
> Meanwhile, Honda and Toyota posted gains in sales.
>
> So, when do the big trucks and SUVs lead to sales losses? Granted, some of
> this is the hangover from the "employee pricing" party of the summer but
> sales in the "light truck" category (including minivans) fell by 22% in
> October for the entire market.
>
> Keith
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Miata mailing list
> (email redacted)
> ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
>
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Mail From: keith (Keith Tanner)

Note that Honda and Toyota posted gains OVERALL. Many of their vehicles
are almost carlike in their handling because they are, in fact, cars.

Keith

At 04:06 PM 11/16/2005, NoGood wrote:
>The Honda posts sales gains because it is a very solid vehicle with good
>fit and finish that feels almost carlike in it's handling AND gets great
>gas mileage.
>
>No it won't haul 7,000 pounds but how many people really do?
>
>
>On Nov 16, 2005, at 4:58 PM, Keith Tanner wrote:
>
>>
>>>Note that I still believe that big trucks and SUVs will lead to sales losses
>>>at some point (but we are not there yet).
>>
>>Not there yet? Any automaker with a high percentage of trucks in their
>>offerings saw massive sales drops in the last few months. Sales of the
>>Escalade are down by 49%. GM light truck sales overall fell by 30% in
>>October compared to last year.
>>
>>Ford saw sales drop 20% in September when compared with 2004, then 23% in
>>October. Sales of the Exploder/Extruder/Excommunicator SUVs are down over
>>50% while the F-series pickups dropped by 30%.
>>
>>Meanwhile, Honda and Toyota posted gains in sales.
>>
>>So, when do the big trucks and SUVs lead to sales losses? Granted, some
>>of this is the hangover from the "employee pricing" party of the summer
>>but sales in the "light truck" category (including minivans) fell by 22%
>>in October for the entire market.
>>
>>Keith
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Miata mailing list
>>(email redacted)
>>ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
>
>_______________________________________________
>Miata mailing list
>(email redacted)
>ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Larry (Larry Alster)

Me!!! I tow 12000 lbs.


Larry

White Knight 1991 Crystal White #99 CSP
Silver Bullet 1992 Silverstone #17 EM FM I+ Turbo
Honey B 1992 Sunburst Yellow J.R. M45
Whooosh 2004 Titanium MazdaSpeed MX5

LowCountry Miata lowcountrymiataclub.net
Masters Miata
RAGS 074

----- Original Message -----
From: "NoGood" <(email redacted)>
To: <unlisted-recipients:>; <no To-header on input>
Cc: "Miata List" <(email redacted)>
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 6:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Miata] NMC [unless you count all the sales Mazda will pick up]


> The Honda posts sales gains because it is a very solid vehicle with good
> fit and finish that feels almost carlike in it's handling AND gets great
> gas mileage.
>
> No it won't haul 7,000 pounds but how many people really do?
>
>
> On Nov 16, 2005, at 4:58 PM, Keith Tanner wrote:
>
>>
>>> Note that I still believe that big trucks and SUVs will lead to sales
>>> losses
>>> at some point (but we are not there yet).
>>
>> Not there yet? Any automaker with a high percentage of trucks in their
>> offerings saw massive sales drops in the last few months. Sales of the
>> Escalade are down by 49%. GM light truck sales overall fell by 30% in
>> October compared to last year.
>>
>> Ford saw sales drop 20% in September when compared with 2004, then 23% in
>> October. Sales of the Exploder/Extruder/Excommunicator SUVs are down over
>> 50% while the F-series pickups dropped by 30%.
>>
>> Meanwhile, Honda and Toyota posted gains in sales.
>>
>> So, when do the big trucks and SUVs lead to sales losses? Granted, some
>> of this is the hangover from the "employee pricing" party of the summer
>> but sales in the "light truck" category (including minivans) fell by 22%
>> in October for the entire market.
>>
>> Keith
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Miata mailing list
>> (email redacted)
>> ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Miata mailing list
> (email redacted)
> ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: rmcelwee (rmcelwee)

I think you hit the nail on the head. That is from the hangover (my
opinion). I think 20% drop will be nothing compared to what it will be when
the gas guzzlers go out of fashion. I walk around my office and all the guys
are still looking at ads for SUVs. No one mentions wanting to buy a Prius. I
think we will finally "be there" when you see all the car ads showcasing MPG
vs HP (then subtract a few months because it will take them a while to get
the picture).

----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Tanner" <(email redacted)>
To: "Miata List" <(email redacted)>
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Miata] NMC [unless you count all the sales Mazda will pick up]


>
> >Note that I still believe that big trucks and SUVs will lead to sales
losses
> >at some point (but we are not there yet).
>
> Not there yet? Any automaker with a high percentage of trucks in their
> offerings saw massive sales drops in the last few months. Sales of the
> Escalade are down by 49%. GM light truck sales overall fell by 30% in
> October compared to last year.
>
> Ford saw sales drop 20% in September when compared with 2004, then 23% in
> October. Sales of the Exploder/Extruder/Excommunicator SUVs are down over
> 50% while the F-series pickups dropped by 30%.
>
> Meanwhile, Honda and Toyota posted gains in sales.
>
> So, when do the big trucks and SUVs lead to sales losses? Granted, some of
> this is the hangover from the "employee pricing" party of the summer but
> sales in the "light truck" category (including minivans) fell by 22% in
> October for the entire market.
>
> Keith
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Miata mailing list
> (email redacted)
> ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: keith (Keith Tanner)

Some of it's the hangover - but notice in all cases that the sales drop is
higher for the gas guzzlers. Ford sales overall drop by 23%, but the
pickups are down by 30% and the big SUVs by over 50%.

Keith

At 05:09 PM 11/16/2005, rmcelwee wrote:
>I think you hit the nail on the head. That is from the hangover (my
>opinion). I think 20% drop will be nothing compared to what it will be when
>the gas guzzlers go out of fashion. I walk around my office and all the guys
>are still looking at ads for SUVs. No one mentions wanting to buy a Prius. I
>think we will finally "be there" when you see all the car ads showcasing MPG
>vs HP (then subtract a few months because it will take them a while to get
>the picture).
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Keith Tanner" <(email redacted)>
>To: "Miata List" <(email redacted)>
>Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 5:58 PM
>Subject: Re: [Miata] NMC [unless you count all the sales Mazda will pick up]
>
>
> >
> > >Note that I still believe that big trucks and SUVs will lead to sales
>losses
> > >at some point (but we are not there yet).
> >
> > Not there yet? Any automaker with a high percentage of trucks in their
> > offerings saw massive sales drops in the last few months. Sales of the
> > Escalade are down by 49%. GM light truck sales overall fell by 30% in
> > October compared to last year.
> >
> > Ford saw sales drop 20% in September when compared with 2004, then 23% in
> > October. Sales of the Exploder/Extruder/Excommunicator SUVs are down over
> > 50% while the F-series pickups dropped by 30%.
> >
> > Meanwhile, Honda and Toyota posted gains in sales.
> >
> > So, when do the big trucks and SUVs lead to sales losses? Granted, some of
> > this is the hangover from the "employee pricing" party of the summer but
> > sales in the "light truck" category (including minivans) fell by 22% in
> > October for the entire market.
> >
> > Keith
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Miata mailing list
> > (email redacted)
> > ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>Miata mailing list
>(email redacted)
>ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: CAnderson (Anderson,Chuck)

Interesting. I'm hoping to do just the opposite, sell both my Miata and
my Volkswagen van and buy a gas guzzling SUV.
Chuck Anderson
'96 R

-----Original Message-----
From: (email redacted) [mailto:(email redacted)] On
Behalf Of Keith Tanner
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 5:48 PM
To: rmcelwee; Miata List
Subject: Re: [Miata] NMC [unless you count all the sales Mazda will pick
up]

Some of it's the hangover - but notice in all cases that the sales drop
is
higher for the gas guzzlers. Ford sales overall drop by 23%, but the
pickups are down by 30% and the big SUVs by over 50%.

Keith

At 05:09 PM 11/16/2005, rmcelwee wrote:
>I think you hit the nail on the head. That is from the hangover (my
>opinion). I think 20% drop will be nothing compared to what it will be
when
>the gas guzzlers go out of fashion. I walk around my office and all the
guys
>are still looking at ads for SUVs. No one mentions wanting to buy a
Prius. I
>think we will finally "be there" when you see all the car ads
showcasing MPG
>vs HP (then subtract a few months because it will take them a while to
get
>the picture).
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Keith Tanner" <(email redacted)>
>To: "Miata List" <(email redacted)>
>Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 5:58 PM
>Subject: Re: [Miata] NMC [unless you count all the sales Mazda will
pick up]
>
>
> >
> > >Note that I still believe that big trucks and SUVs will lead to
sales
>losses
> > >at some point (but we are not there yet).
> >
> > Not there yet? Any automaker with a high percentage of trucks in
their
> > offerings saw massive sales drops in the last few months. Sales of
the
> > Escalade are down by 49%. GM light truck sales overall fell by 30%
in
> > October compared to last year.
> >
> > Ford saw sales drop 20% in September when compared with 2004, then
23% in
> > October. Sales of the Exploder/Extruder/Excommunicator SUVs are down
over
> > 50% while the F-series pickups dropped by 30%.
> >
> > Meanwhile, Honda and Toyota posted gains in sales.
> >
> > So, when do the big trucks and SUVs lead to sales losses? Granted,
some of
> > this is the hangover from the "employee pricing" party of the summer
but
> > sales in the "light truck" category (including minivans) fell by 22%
in
> > October for the entire market.
> >
> > Keith
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Miata mailing list
> > (email redacted)
> > ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>Miata mailing list
>(email redacted)
>ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata



_______________________________________________
Miata mailing list
(email redacted)
ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: the.jack (the.jack)

That's a good call, afterall gas did come down recently! Heck,
get two one with a motor bigger than the next, that way for little
stop-n-go trips you can take the bigger one.
:O

Chris C.
===================================
99 Mazda Miata 5-sp
97 Dodge Ramwagon 3.9 slush-o-matic
97 Saab 900 Talladega 5-sp
91 XJ 4.0HO 30s

> -----Original Message-----
> From: (email redacted)
> [mailto:(email redacted)] On Behalf Of Anderson,Chuck
> Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 21.12
> To: (email redacted)
> Subject: RE: [Miata] NMC [unless you count all the sales
> Mazda will pick up]
>
> Interesting. I'm hoping to do just the opposite, sell both my
> Miata and my Volkswagen van and buy a gas guzzling SUV. Chuck
> Anderson
> '96 R

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: CAnderson (Anderson,Chuck)

That's exactly right. It's better to get one and enjoy it now while gas
is $2.50/gallon, rather than wait until it hits $5.00/gallon. The time
will come soon enough when I'm forced to drive some little tin
econo-box.

-----Original Message-----
From: (email redacted) [mailto:(email redacted)] On
Behalf Of the.jack
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 7:46 PM
To: Miata List
Subject: RE: [Miata] NMC [unless you count all the sales Mazda will pick
up]


That's a good call, afterall gas did come down recently! Heck,
get two one with a motor bigger than the next, that way for little
stop-n-go trips you can take the bigger one.
:O

Chris C.
===================================
99 Mazda Miata 5-sp
97 Dodge Ramwagon 3.9 slush-o-matic
97 Saab 900 Talladega 5-sp
91 XJ 4.0HO 30s

> -----Original Message-----
> From: (email redacted)
> [mailto:(email redacted)] On Behalf Of Anderson,Chuck
> Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 21.12
> To: (email redacted)
> Subject: RE: [Miata] NMC [unless you count all the sales
> Mazda will pick up]
>
> Interesting. I'm hoping to do just the opposite, sell both my
> Miata and my Volkswagen van and buy a gas guzzling SUV. Chuck
> Anderson
> '96 R


_______________________________________________
Miata mailing list
(email redacted)
ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: robert (Rob Argento)

This, for us in Sweden, is a bit of an embarassing situation. A total
population of just 9,000,000 people and TWO well known auto brands - each
with its own successful profile. - pretty good actually.

But "the market" is supposed to always be right. The bottom line for
stockholders, etc rules. So Ford got to buy Volvo Automobile Division (the
Division for Lorries - oops trucks as you call them - is the most profitable
and still Swedish. And GM bought SAAB. Both are good automobiles - I have
owned both at diffferent time. (Who in Sweden has not!)

Volvo is going VERY well under Fords umbrella - and Ford is using the
technology in other Ford products and in production techniques. Bur GM
seems to have really messed up the marketing and positioning of SAAB and has
not taken advantage of SAAB technology in other GM products.

But SAAB is quite a small company and probably does not have the volume to
survive the costs of new designs - in that desing changes occur much faster
than say 20 years ago.

So, I do not think we will once again see an independent SWEDISH-owned SAAB
- but perhaps GM will sell the brand to some other firm. The problem is that
GM seems not competent in marketing SAAB and it is too valuable a brand to
sell to a competitor. So maybe they would prefer to let it die? These
corporate buy-ups do not always benefit the consumer.

We, in Sweden, of course want SAAB to remain a brand - AND for the design
and manufacture to remain here in Sweden.

Robban
2004 Titanium Mazdaspeed Miata




-----Original Message-----
From: (email redacted) [mailto:(email redacted)] On Behalf
Of Jamie Ruderman
Sent: den 16 november 2005 11:44
To: MiataList address
Subject: Re: [Miata] NMC [unless you count all the sales Mazda will pick up]

Hmmm... I wonder what would happen to SAAB... It would be nice if they could
buy themselves out and be independent again... but they'd probably just get
picked up by another car company.

Jamie.

--- Monica Harrison <(email redacted)> wrote:

> A shorter version of the url:
> lnk.nu/epilot2.hamptonroads.com/62q.asp
_______________________________________________
Miata mailing list
(email redacted)
ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: the.jack (the.jack)

Rob, based on my experience with almost 100% Swedish SAABs, I
would like it to continue to be 100% Swedish as well. I like them.
Even those who don't like them cannot deny they [SAABs] have their own
personality, and in good GM style, SAAB is losing it. Take a look at
the new Impala if you want to see death by generic design. The
out-going model wasn't good looking, but it was at least distinctive...
And what's up with the SAAB 92x? Come on, who are they fooling...?

Chris C.
===================================
99 Mazda Miata 5-sp
97 Dodge Ramwagon 3.9 slush-o-matic
97 Saab 900 Talladega 5-sp
91 XJ 4.0HO 30s

> -----Original Message-----
> From: (email redacted)
> [mailto:(email redacted)] On Behalf Of Rob Argento
> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 16.22
> To: (email redacted); 'MiataList address'
> Subject: RE: [Miata] NMC [unless you count all the sales
> Mazda will pick up]
>
>
> This, for us in Sweden, is a bit of an embarassing situation. A total
> population of just 9,000,000 people and TWO well known auto brands -
each
> with its own successful profile. - pretty good actually.
>
> But "the market" is supposed to always be right. The bottom
> line for stockholders, etc rules. So Ford got to buy Volvo
> Automobile Division (the Division for Lorries - oops trucks
> as you call them - is the most profitable and still Swedish.
> And GM bought SAAB. Both are good automobiles - I have owned
> both at diffferent time. (Who in Sweden has not!)
>
> Volvo is going VERY well under Fords umbrella - and Ford is
> using the technology in other Ford products and in production
> techniques. Bur GM seems to have really messed up the
> marketing and positioning of SAAB and has not taken advantage
> of SAAB technology in other GM products.
>
> But SAAB is quite a small company and probably does not have
> the volume to survive the costs of new designs - in that
> desing changes occur much faster than say 20 years ago.
>
> So, I do not think we will once again see an independent
> SWEDISH-owned SAAB
> - but perhaps GM will sell the brand to some other firm. The
> problem is that GM seems not competent in marketing SAAB and
> it is too valuable a brand to sell to a competitor. So maybe
> they would prefer to let it die? These corporate buy-ups do
> not always benefit the consumer.
>
> We, in Sweden, of course want SAAB to remain a brand - AND
> for the design and manufacture to remain here in Sweden.
>
> Robban
> 2004 Titanium Mazdaspeed Miata

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: bigmouthjohn ((email redacted))

I'm right with you there. My OTM is a '91 SAAB 900 Turbo SPG, one of just 254 imported to the USA that year. It's my 2nd 900 and a wonderful car. The new SAAB television ad campaign here uses the tag line: "Born From Jets." Now, that probably means a LOT in Sweden...but here in the old USofA, only SAAB enthusiasts know that SAAB made jets.

This feels a lot like the "Ghost of Harley Earl" crap they used a year or two ago.

Hey GM...maybe it IS time to go bankrupt.

--
John Hammer

Creative Director
BigMouthAudio.com

"Forgive your enemies. It messes up their heads."

-------------- Original message --------------

> Rob, based on my experience with almost 100% Swedish SAABs, I
> would like it to continue to be 100% Swedish as well. I like them.
> Even those who don't like them cannot deny they [SAABs] have their own
> personality, and in good GM style, SAAB is losing it. Take a look at
> the new Impala if you want to see death by generic design. The
> out-going model wasn't good looking, but it was at least distinctive...
> And what's up with the SAAB 92x? Come on, who are they fooling...?
>
> Chris C.
> ===================================
> 99 Mazda Miata 5-sp
> 97 Dodge Ramwagon 3.9 slush-o-matic
> 97 Saab 900 Talladega 5-sp
> 91 XJ 4.0HO 30s
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: (email redacted)
> > [mailto:(email redacted)] On Behalf Of Rob Argento
> > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 16.22
> > To: (email redacted); 'MiataList address'
> > Subject: RE: [Miata] NMC [unless you count all the sales
> > Mazda will pick up]
> >
> >
> > This, for us in Sweden, is a bit of an embarassing situation. A total
> > population of just 9,000,000 people and TWO well known auto brands -
> each
> > with its own successful profile. - pretty good actually.
> >
> > But "the market" is supposed to always be right. The bottom
> > line for stockholders, etc rules. So Ford got to buy Volvo
> > Automobile Division (the Division for Lorries - oops trucks
> > as you call them - is the most profitable and still Swedish.
> > And GM bought SAAB. Both are good automobiles - I have owned
> > both at diffferent time. (Who in Sweden has not!)
> >
> > Volvo is going VERY well under Fords umbrella - and Ford is
> > using the technology in other Ford products and in production
> > techniques. Bur GM seems to have really messed up the
> > marketing and positioning of SAAB and has not taken advantage
> > of SAAB technology in other GM products.
> >
> > But SAAB is quite a small company and probably does not have
> > the volume to survive the costs of new designs - in that
> > desing changes occur much faster than say 20 years ago.
> >
> > So, I do not think we will once again see an independent
> > SWEDISH-owned SAAB
> > - but perhaps GM will sell the brand to some other firm. The
> > problem is that GM seems not competent in marketing SAAB and
> > it is too valuable a brand to sell to a competitor. So maybe
> > they would prefer to let it die? These corporate buy-ups do
> > not always benefit the consumer.
> >
> > We, in Sweden, of course want SAAB to remain a brand - AND
> > for the design and manufacture to remain here in Sweden.
> >
> > Robban
> > 2004 Titanium Mazdaspeed Miata
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Miata mailing list
> (email redacted)
> ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
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Mail From: bryanewyatt (Bryan Wyatt)

Us aviation buffs know about SAAB. The more giant nerds amongst us (ahem!) also happen to know that SAAB built one of the few aircraft to be built in series first with a piston engine, then a jet!

-Bryan

(email redacted) wrote:
...but here in the old USofA, only SAAB enthusiasts know that SAAB made jets.



No signature...the choice of a New Generation




---------------------------------
Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
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Mail From: poneal (P

(email redacted) wrote:
>> ...but here in the old USofA, only SAAB enthusiasts know that
>> SAAB made jets.
>>

And bicycles!

Swedish
Airplane
And
Bicycle

I'm pretty sure I'm right about that... :-p

Actually, I wrote service for a SAAB dealer in the 70s and they are
remarkable cars, mechanically. It was also a Fiat dealer. When a car came in
on the hook, the odds were about 99-to-1 that it was going to be a Fiat. I
had one old guy that would faithfully bring his '65 96 (three cyl, two
stroke) with his service coupon booklet for his 170,000 mile service, lol.
If a Fiat broke a timing belt (which happened frequently), it was totalled.

Pat.