Miata List Archive

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Mail From: bryanewyatt (Bryan Wyatt)

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David,

I was just making a sarcastic joke. It covers a truth that is partial and peculiar to my experience. Sorry if I offended.

Bryan
-Tail dragging between legs

David Egan <(email redacted)> wrote:
<<...an interface that only an artist or pothead could love.>>

Bryan, I appreciate the give and take on Macs and PCs here, even if it
is the Miata mailing list, but I take great offense to your
characterization of Mac users as quoted above. That kind of thinking,
and language, has no place here. Please keep it to yourself.

David's '91. Red, of course!!!

David Egan
Chase Court
(410) 727-1112
chasecourt.com
Intimate, Romantic Weddings and Private, Distinctive Events in an
Extraordinary Historic Setting

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Mail From: romad (Dennis B. Swaney)

At 8:00 -0800 10/27/03, Brad Franks wrote:
>Actually, it *is* feasable.
>
>BeOS managed to do pretty good on a limited scope of hardware. Heck, I still
>wish Be was still around, they really had something good going there (and
>according to Microsoft, was their sole competition for PC Operating
>Systems). I had actually built a dual boot Be/Windows machine that did
>everything I could ever want (including gaming), and Be managed to a
>*better* job at resource management than Microsoft could ever dream of.
>

Yes, it IS feasable and is an established fact in Cupertino. They've
had versions of OS X running on various "pc" processors for years
now. In fact, before OS X came about, Rhapsody was designed to run on
a variety of processors.
This was all as a hedge against Motorola not being able to provide
faster PPC processors. IBM has stepped up to the plate fortunately.

Be is still around sort of: parts of it are in Palm OS 5.x!
--

Miataly,
Dennis
---
Dennis B. Swaney "I think, therefore I Mac"
Oroville, California TEAM USAF
Founding Member, S.A.M.O.A. Team Flyin' Miata
Team California License Plate Blue Team Valentine 1
('90 VIN: 7028)

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Mail From: aradia ((email redacted))

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Dennis B. Swaney wrote:

> At 3:58 -0800 10/27/03, Phredd wrote:
> > +++ Not to mention Windoze-like and S - L - O - W.
> >
> > Plus, you have to go to the aftermarket to buy back all the OS9
> >utility they threw away.
> >
> > And that Dock thingy. Who thought up that abortion? Oh, yeah. Bill
> >Gates.
>
> Actually, the Dock has it's roots in the Control Strip and DragThing.
> Panther, (my copy should arrive today), is much faster and the
> improvements in Mail may have me looking at it again, even though I
> recently upgraded to Eudora 6

*sigh*

Steve Jobs? NeXTStep? Ring a bell? The dock comes from NS/OS. In fact, the
basic foundation of OS X's interface is NeXT, even if they did mess with
it a little too much.


-- Sean...

Death to Spammers!
www.nspasm.org

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Mail From: d.egan3 (David Egan)

Thanks for the info, David. All the people each have little pieces of
knowledge. It's great to put some of it together!

David's '91. Red, of course!!!

David Egan
Chase Court
(410) 727-1112
chasecourt.com
Intimate, Romantic Weddings and Private, Distinctive Events in an
Extraordinary Historic Setting

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Mail From: equiraptor (Monica Harrison)

On 27-Oct-2003, Dennis B. Swaney wrote:
>
> Never happen. Apple has control over both the hardware and OS so that
> they "play well together" Windows has to try and play with all sorts
> of hardware that is of varying quality, so it is written "loosely".
> Unfortunately, the requirement to try and work with EVERYTHING tends
> to result in security breaches. Microsoft COULD write a very secure
> OS, but it probably wouldn't run on 98% of the hardware nor work with
> 98% of the current apps so Microsoft has to make some decisions of
> security vs. usability.

I'm sorry, but you can't blame Microsoft's security problems on the hardware. A Linux or *BSD system running on the same hardware is significantly more secure by default (typically). It's also a lot harder to use. Windows is written for usability, not security. A good administrator can lock down a Windows box very tightly and keep it pretty safe, but it becomes much harder to use as a desktop. This is why the default install of most Linux distributions is so hard to use as a desktop. A good administrator who knows the OS can make Windows secure, and can make Linux a usable desktop, it's just a matter of configuring the operating system properly.

I agree that Mac OS X will most likely never see an x86 desktop, but it's not because of the hazards of porting the system. The kernel, Darwin, already runs on x86. Apple hardware is expensive. It's good hardware, but it's more costly than x86 hardware. Many people I know have bought / are buying Apple hardware so they can run OS X. If it ran on x86, Apple would lose hardware sales, and therefore money.

Monica

>
> I will now depart from my usual Miata sig.
> --
> Sincerely,
> Dennis B. Swaney
>
> "Windows is a command-line OS with a GUI shell while Mac System 10 is
> ... oh, never mind."
> _______________________________________________
> Miata mailing list
> (email redacted)
> realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata

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Mail From: robert.w.bumala (Bumala, Robert W)

Security is an interesting thing. The Naval Observatory sent up a Linux box to operate some hardware, and it was hacked within three days. Where I last worked, they keep their Sun machines disconnected from the network, for fear of being hacked. It happens all of the time, and they don't have the time or manpower to install all of the patches. None of the Macs have EVER been hacked. Here at Lockheed, they will not let you attach an XP machine to the net, too buggy, it has to be Win2000.

As for more expensive, you can get an eMac for 799, plug any kind of camera, DV or still, into it, and import pictures, movies, music, etc. Edit them, and burn them to CD or DVD, without loading any more software. You can argue the value of GHz, but cost wise, it's a wash, and the OSX features, and security, are vastly superior.

When Steve Jobs returned to Apple with the NeXT operating system, Apple hinted that they might port to the x86 machines, a simple thing to do since the UNIX core has long since been ported. Bill Gates "invested" 250 Million in Apple to stop them.


Bob.
----------------------

Robert W. Bumala
Circuit Design Engineer Staff
Lockheed Martin Advanced Technology Center

Lockheed Martin Space Systems Company
Org. L9-42 Bld. 255
3251 Hanover Street
Palo Alto, CA 94304-1191

Phone: (650) 354-5918
Fax: (650) 424-3333
EMail: (email redacted)

-----Original Message-----
From: (email redacted) [mailto:(email redacted)] On Behalf Of Monica Harrison
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 8:18 AM
To: Dennis B. Swaney
Cc: (email redacted)
Subject: Re: [Miata] (NMC) GRRR Mac mail

On 27-Oct-2003, Dennis B. Swaney wrote:
>
> Never happen. Apple has control over both the hardware and OS so that
> they "play well together" Windows has to try and play with all sorts
> of hardware that is of varying quality, so it is written "loosely".
> Unfortunately, the requirement to try and work with EVERYTHING tends
> to result in security breaches. Microsoft COULD write a very secure
> OS, but it probably wouldn't run on 98% of the hardware nor work with
> 98% of the current apps so Microsoft has to make some decisions of
> security vs. usability.

I'm sorry, but you can't blame Microsoft's security problems on the hardware. A Linux or *BSD system running on the same hardware is significantly more secure by default (typically). It's also a lot harder to use. Windows is written for usability, not security. A good administrator can lock down a Windows box very tightly and keep it pretty safe, but it becomes much harder to use as a desktop. This is why the default install of most Linux distributions is so hard to use as a desktop. A good administrator who knows the OS can make Windows secure, and can make Linux a usable desktop, it's just a matter of configuring the operating system properly.

I agree that Mac OS X will most likely never see an x86 desktop, but it's not because of the hazards of porting the system. The kernel, Darwin, already runs on x86. Apple hardware is expensive. It's good hardware, but it's more costly than x86 hardware. Many people I know have bought / are buying Apple hardware so they can run OS X. If it ran on x86, Apple would lose hardware sales, and therefore money.

Monica

>
> I will now depart from my usual Miata sig.
> --
> Sincerely,
> Dennis B. Swaney
>
> "Windows is a command-line OS with a GUI shell while Mac System 10 is
> ... oh, never mind."
> _______________________________________________
> Miata mailing list
> (email redacted)
> realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
_______________________________________________
Miata mailing list
(email redacted)
realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata

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Mail From: equiraptor (Monica Harrison)

On 27-Oct-2003, Bumala, Robert W wrote:
> Security is an interesting thing. The Naval Observatory sent up a Linux box to operate some hardware, and it was hacked within three days. Where I last worked, they keep their Sun machines disconnected from the network, for fear of being hacked. It happens all of the time, and they don't have the time or manpower to install all of the patches. None of the Macs have EVER been hacked. Here at Lockheed, they will not let you attach an XP machine to the net, too buggy, it has to be Win2000.

You missed the point. Security is the responsibility of the Admin. Just because ost Linux distributions are more secure by default doesn't mean they all are, and doesn't mean they'll stay that way. If the boxes were installed with a release and not patched, then they're as at risk as an unpatched Windows system. If it's a distro like Red Hat, a patched install is still at risk. It still takes a good admin.

Monica

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Mail From: m7powers (Michael Powers)

On 10/27/03 12:16 PM, "Bumala, Robert W" <(email redacted)> blurbed:

> As for more expensive, you can get an eMac for 799, plug any kind of camera,
> DV or still, into it, and import pictures, movies, music, etc. Edit them, and
> burn them to CD or DVD, without loading any more software. You can argue the
> value of GHz, but cost wise, it's a wash, and the OSX features, and security,
> are vastly superior.

Hear hear. After I quit my pastime as a dope-smoking artist, I went to the
Mac and have enjoyed rock solid stability running all sorts of multimedia
stuff -- Photoshop, Iphoto, DVD Pro, Imovie, Itunes, non-linear movie
editing, etc. Just fantastic as I never spent a minute trying to figure out
how to resolve hardware vs. software problems. It all worked from the first
moment and continued that way to this day. It has been a huge timesaver as
the computer is now as reliable as my coffee maker, it just runs and does
what it's supposed to exactly when I want it to.

- Mike

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Mail From: m7powers (Michael Powers)

On 10/27/03 9:54 AM, "Bryan Wyatt" <(email redacted)> blurbed:

> Ummmmm...Well, I guess until Apple decides to have multiple manufacturers for
> its hardware, I guess you're going to get the Shiny Happy Computer ..

(snip)

Sounds like you are also dissing Happy Fun Ball. Is that necessary?

- Mike

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Mail From: bryanewyatt (Bryan Wyatt)

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nah...

Truth is, I was in a bad mood from being sick all weekend, and I just felt like playing court jester.

Seems I've touched a nerve however...guess I was playing Andrew "Dice" Clay instead of "Weird Al" Yankovic...

Bryan

Michael Powers <(email redacted)> wrote:
On 10/27/03 9:54 AM, "Bryan Wyatt"
blurbed:

> Ummmmm...Well, I guess until Apple decides to have multiple manufacturers for
> its hardware, I guess you're going to get the Shiny Happy Computer ..

(snip)

Sounds like you are also dissing Happy Fun Ball. Is that necessary?

- Mike

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Mail From: carguy (David Bennett)

>>
>
> You missed the point. Security is the responsibility of the Admin.

That is just the point of my Macs, I don't need an ADMIN!