Miata List Archive

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Mail From: sosnaenergyconsulting (David Sosna)

Hi:
Got an '04 Toyota Echo (purchased new) with the 185-60-15 Bridgestone
Potenza RE92's. High performance all-season.
Car now has 35,000 miles, and the tires are pretty worn, so I went to
Tire Rack's website to check pricing on replacements.
Up until I started getting tire squeal, I've thought the handling was
pretty good with the original tires.

The survey results show that they're roundly disliked. (no pun
intended). The reviews were largely good. Confusing.

The only other tire in that size Tire Rack lists is Goodyear Eagle
RS-A. Survey results were nearly as bad.

I've got Falken Azenis on my Miata and love 'em, but Tire Rack doesn't
carry Falkens of any stripe, so I checked into what sizes were available
in Falken's other tires on the Falken website itself.
The Ziex ZE-912 comes in O.E. size that'll fit my Echo.

Complication: The tire dude at the local Discount Tire says I can
upsize while keeping the original steelies on the Echo.
205-55-15 has same rolling diameter and he and Falken's website says
it'll fit a 5.5" rim--and it's available in the Zeix- ZE-512, which he
says is cheaper. Aha, I says, says I. I can go around corners faster
with a wider tire. Hmmm.
Guy that does the routine maintenence on my Echo (and who also sells
tires) says that if I go with something other than stock size, it'll
ride a lot harder and I'll hate it. Car rides fairly thumpy, but it's
an econonbox. I'd rather not make the ride much worse, if possible.

I like going around corners fast, whether it's an Echo or a Miata, and I
don't want to dump lots of money into the Echo for wheels and suspension
modifications. Prefer leaving it stock and spending my money on the
Miata. Car is in SoCal, but 'could' find itself in inclement
weather--hence the all-season tires.

So, on to my questions (sorry it took so long):
1. Anybody on the list got any feedback on using the Falken Ziex tires
(either 912 or 512) on a FWD econobox, and were you happy with the tires
and their handling?

2. Any experiences similar to upgrading to a 205-55-15 set of all-season
tires on said econobox to improve the handling?
Were you happy with the ride? (I realize that's subjective--one person's
polyurethane bushings are another persons torture device)

I'd've checked an Echo weblist, but haven't been able to find one that
has any real info--sorry for inflicting the questions on y'all, but
there seems to be a pretty good cross section of gearheads on this list,
so hopefully one or two of you have had some experience with the tires
and the econobox related questions I've got.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me!

Best Regards
David Sosna
P.S. The stock tires weigh 17#. In 205-55-15, the Ziex 512's weigh 19.2
(not bad at 13% increase), and the 912s are 21.7--not so good at nearly 28%.

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: the.jack (the.jack)

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of David Sosna
Subject: [Miata] (NMC) Falken Ziex on econobox

<SNIP>
1. Anybody on the list got any feedback on using the Falken
Ziex tires (either 912 or 512)<SNIP>

-----Response-----

I have the 512s on my original Miata rims (the 14"
5-spoke alloys). While it's not FWD, I still think I can
give you a reasonable review.
1) They are not bad above 40*F or so. They grip
pretty well for an all-season. Way better grip than the
Hercules all-seasons I took off.
2) They are not so great under 40*. They are okay in
snow, but would be much better if they didn't harden up
noticably in the colder temps. As has been said on here 1000
times (actually I'm sure it's more than that) an all-season
is by nature not great at anything. The 512s are
exceptionally not great at everything :)

But if what you need is a tire that will grip better
than your average all-season in good conditions and merely
be passable in snow, then it's not a bad choice. The Dunlop
SP5000s are another competitor in this genre of mediocrity,
though in my experience they are better in the winter than
the 512s.

I think some other folks can respond with more
specificity about your other concerns. In short:
- If your sidewall is the same (or very close) your
ride quality shouldn't be affect much (assuming comparable
air pressure and that the replacement tire doesn't have
reinforced sidewalls).
- Going to a larger tire on a given rim won't
necessarily increase "handling" on its own. YMMV.

the.jack / Chris C.
99 Mazda Miata 5-sp Emerald

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: bryanewyatt (Bryan Wyatt)

He either doesn't realize when you say "other than stock" you mean that you are still keeping stock apsect ratio (sidewall height). Your ride harshness (at least as much as the tires are concerned) would be decided by the air pressure in the tires, the stiffness of the sidewalls (some have stiffer than others, of course), and the sidewall height. At the very least, you are thinking of changing 2 of these. Doesn't mean your ride is going to completely suck instantly, though...

-Bryan

David Sosna <sosnaenergyconsulting at cox.net> wrote:
Guy that does the routine maintenence on my Echo (and who also sells
tires) says that if I go with something other than stock size, it'll
ride a lot harder and I'll hate it. Car rides fairly thumpy, but it's
an econonbox. I'd rather not make the ride much worse, if possible.

No signature...the choice of a New Generation




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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: sosnaenergyconsulting (David Sosna)

Thanks, Chris, and Bryan for your responses!
Still haven't decided which way to jump. I'll try to spend some time
this weekend obsessing about it now that the Miata is running again (whee!).

Chris, what I was figuring was that for a comparably sticky (or equally
non-sticky for that matter) tire, going with a wider tire where the
compounds are similar would give more grip going around corners--at
least in the dry.

Am I missing something in regards to this, or does it make sense?

Best Regards
David Sosna

the.jack wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> On Behalf Of David Sosna
> Subject: [Miata] (NMC) Falken Ziex on econobox
>
> <SNIP>
> 1. Anybody on the list got any feedback on using the Falken
> Ziex tires (either 912 or 512)<SNIP>
>
> -----Response-----
>
> I have the 512s on my original Miata rims (the 14"
> 5-spoke alloys). While it's not FWD, I still think I can
> give you a reasonable review.
> 1) They are not bad above 40*F or so. They grip
> pretty well for an all-season. Way better grip than the
> Hercules all-seasons I took off.
> 2) They are not so great under 40*. They are okay in
> snow, but would be much better if they didn't harden up
> noticably in the colder temps. As has been said on here 1000
> times (actually I'm sure it's more than that) an all-season
> is by nature not great at anything. The 512s are
> exceptionally not great at everything :)
>
> But if what you need is a tire that will grip better
> than your average all-season in good conditions and merely
> be passable in snow, then it's not a bad choice. The Dunlop
> SP5000s are another competitor in this genre of mediocrity,
> though in my experience they are better in the winter than
> the 512s.
>
> I think some other folks can respond with more
> specificity about your other concerns. In short:
> - If your sidewall is the same (or very close) your
> ride quality shouldn't be affect much (assuming comparable
> air pressure and that the replacement tire doesn't have
> reinforced sidewalls).
> - Going to a larger tire on a given rim won't
> necessarily increase "handling" on its own. YMMV.
>
> the.jack / Chris C.
> 99 Mazda Miata 5-sp Emerald
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Miata mailing list
> Miata at list.realbig.com
> list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
>
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: the.jack (the.jack)

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of David Sosna
Subject: Re: [Miata] (NMC) Falken Ziex on econobox

<SNIP>
Chris, what I was figuring was that for a comparably sticky
(or equally
non-sticky for that matter) tire, going with a wider tire
where the
compounds are similar would give more grip going around
corners--at
least in the dry.

Am I missing something in regards to this, or does it make
sense?

Best Regards
David Sosna
-----Response-----

Yes and no. A wider tire does not give you more
contact patch. Lowering pressure increases does. So, if we
assume the same level of grip for each, once the each tire
"settles" into a turn the two sizes should give comparable
levels of grip.
Also, since we're talking about a tire that's a good
bit wider than your stockers, but on the same width rim, you
are going to experience [more, if there's already] sidewall
bulge. This could reduce your steering response at the same
pressure as your 185/60s. So you might feel like the bigger
tires are actually less sporty.
Okay, so increase pressure, right? But if you do
that to compensate then your contact patch is going to get
smaller; again, tire size being irrelevant.
I'm not *sure* you'll actually experience
improvement or reduction in performance one way or the
other; I just don't want you to possibly waste your money.
But I leave the floor open, I'm certainly no
authority. I'd just hate to hear that you got the bigger
tires and regretted it.

As an aside maybe check out the Toyo Proxes4. They
are pseudo-all-seasons; meant to be "3 season" tires, I
think (can handle some cold, but no real snow or ice). I've
never used them and I don't know if they are safe in the
snow. Could be worth looking in to though...?

the.jack / Chris C.
99 Mazda Miata 5-sp Emerald