Miata List Archive

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Mail From: bwupton (Ben W Upton)

It was posted that the miata and the corvair are very similar, and I'd
have to say, "GOD I HOPE NOT!" the corvair had a book written about it,
Unsafe At Any Speed, yeh, well I hope the miata isn't similar to the
corvair at all. doesn't seem to be, a little more successful. doesn't
have the nice propane heater, etc...
just my thoughts
Ben

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Mail From: ckiser (Chaz Kiser)

My dad, being the Ford man he is and a collector of Edsels, really takes
offense to the fact that people diss his beloved Edsels. He maintains that
the Corvair was every bit as crummy as the Edsel but never got the rep. lol.
Of course dad likes to put 428cobra jet engines in his Edsels too. I doubt
if he has any stock engines in them. Strange sense of humor

Chaz
----- Original Message -----
From: Ben W Upton <(email redacted)>
To: <(email redacted)>
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 10:54 PM
Subject: [Miata] miata and corvair


> It was posted that the miata and the corvair are very similar, and I'd
> have to say, "GOD I HOPE NOT!" the corvair had a book written about it,
> Unsafe At Any Speed, yeh, well I hope the miata isn't similar to the
> corvair at all. doesn't seem to be, a little more successful. doesn't
> have the nice propane heater, etc...
> just my thoughts
> Ben
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
> _______________________________________________
> Miata mailing list
> (email redacted)
> realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: kbarton150236 ((email redacted))

Unsafe at Any Speed was about Nader's pathetic need to be noticed. The
Corvair had the same basic suspension layout as most European sports cars.
Take it from the people that drove them, not from an idiot author that
doesn't even have a drivers license. Nader wanted to build up his ego by
attacking GM, instead of VW, or British Leyland. There was even a movie of
a test by an 'independent agency' (Ford) that showed its' poor handling
characteristics. It was proved to be a total fraud. The Corvair was the
best handling American car of that time. Nader was and is a boob.

Keith Barton
99 LP - DelVal
mywebpages.comcast.net/kbarton150236/Miata/elly.htm

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben W Upton" <(email redacted)>
To: <(email redacted)>
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 10:54 PM
Subject: [Miata] miata and corvair


> It was posted that the miata and the corvair are very similar, and I'd
> have to say, "GOD I HOPE NOT!" the corvair had a book written about it,
> Unsafe At Any Speed, yeh, well I hope the miata isn't similar to the
> corvair at all. doesn't seem to be, a little more successful. doesn't
> have the nice propane heater, etc...
> just my thoughts
> Ben
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
> _______________________________________________
> Miata mailing list
> (email redacted)
> realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
>

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Mail From: Larry (Larry Alster)

And the book was BS as was good old Ralph Nader's so called testing. A case
of a zealot trying to make a name for himself at any cost.

Larry

White Knight 1991 Crystal White #99 CSP
Silver Bullet 1992 Silverstone #17 EM BEGI System IV Turbo +
Honey B 1992 Sunburst Yellow

LowCountry Miata miata.net/lowcountry
Masters Miata
RAGS 074

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben W Upton" <(email redacted)>
To: <(email redacted)>
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 10:54 PM
Subject: [Miata] miata and corvair


> It was posted that the miata and the corvair are very similar, and I'd
> have to say, "GOD I HOPE NOT!" the corvair had a book written about it,
> Unsafe At Any Speed, yeh, well I hope the miata isn't similar to the
> corvair at all. doesn't seem to be, a little more successful. doesn't
> have the nice propane heater, etc...
> just my thoughts
> Ben
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
> _______________________________________________
> Miata mailing list
> (email redacted)
> realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata

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Mail From: bigmouthjohn (John Hammer)

First: the Corvair/Miata reference I made was to the enthusiast crowd
that understands and enjoys both cars.

Second: The book "Unsafe At Any Speed" and the perception it created
were founded in unfortunate (for the car & it's fans) mistruths. The
following court case was in fact, WON by GM and proved that Nader was
wrong. Sadly, the damage had been done. The court of public opinion
ruled, even though it was wrong.

I did have a great drive with our club last night though...my Miata's
heater is HUGE compared to the heat exchanger on the 'ol Vair!

--
John Hammer

Half Fast Racing!
mywebpage.netscape.com/miataprez/index.html

Creative Services Director
Cumulus Broadcasting
WKFR, WRKR, WKMI Kalamazoo, MI

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: whawn (Wayne Hawn)

Mine sure did not handle very well. I had a '62 convertible corvair for a
while. When I could keep the thing running, it was a beast around the
corners. Even the slow ones. The tail just did not want to stay put.
Granted, the tires were crap, and the set up was probably all wrong, but
even so, it was like driving on ice. My 63 caddy, which weighed God knows
how many times more, handled better.

Wayne

-----Original Message-----
From: (email redacted) [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 1:45 PM
To: Ben W Upton; (email redacted)
Subject: Re: [Miata] miata and corvair

Unsafe at Any Speed was about Nader's pathetic need to be noticed. The
Corvair had the same basic suspension layout as most European sports cars.
Take it from the people that drove them, not from an idiot author that
doesn't even have a drivers license. Nader wanted to build up his ego by
attacking GM, instead of VW, or British Leyland. There was even a movie of
a test by an 'independent agency' (Ford) that showed its' poor handling
characteristics. It was proved to be a total fraud. The Corvair was the
best handling American car of that time. Nader was and is a boob.

Keith Barton
99 LP - DelVal
mywebpages.comcast.net/kbarton150236/Miata/elly.htm

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben W Upton" <(email redacted)>
To: <(email redacted)>
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 10:54 PM
Subject: [Miata] miata and corvair


> It was posted that the miata and the corvair are very similar, and I'd
> have to say, "GOD I HOPE NOT!" the corvair had a book written about it,
> Unsafe At Any Speed, yeh, well I hope the miata isn't similar to the
> corvair at all. doesn't seem to be, a little more successful. doesn't
> have the nice propane heater, etc...
> just my thoughts
> Ben
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
> _______________________________________________
> Miata mailing list
> (email redacted)
> realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
>


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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: bigmouthjohn ((email redacted))

Admittedly, the early "Bathtub" Corvairs ('60-'64) had
lesser rear suspensions than the 2nd gen '65-'69 which
took the 'Vette's design. A couple years ago, we had
a '66 Corsa with a full cage & agressive suspension
setup destroy everyone in CP in a SoloI event.

--
John Hammer
AutoRacing1.com

Creative Services Director
Cumulus Broadcasting, Kalamazoo MI
> Mine sure did not handle very well. I had a '62 convertible corvair for a
> while. When I could keep the thing running, it was a beast around the
> corners. Even the slow ones. The tail just did not want to stay put.
> Granted, the tires were crap, and the set up was probably all wrong, but
> even so, it was like driving on ice. My 63 caddy, which weighed God knows
> how many times more, handled better.
>
> Wayne
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: (email redacted) [mailto:(email redacted)]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 1:45 PM
> To: Ben W Upton; (email redacted)
> Subject: Re: [Miata] miata and corvair
>
> Unsafe at Any Speed was about Nader's pathetic need to be noticed. The
> Corvair had the same basic suspension layout as most European sports cars.
> Take it from the people that drove them, not from an idiot author that
> doesn't even have a drivers license. Nader wanted to build up his ego by
> attacking GM, instead of VW, or British Leyland. There was even a movie of
> a test by an 'independent agency' (Ford) that showed its' poor handling
> characteristics. It was proved to be a total fraud. The Corvair was the
> best handling American car of that time. Nader was and is a boob.
>
> Keith Barton
> 99 LP - DelVal
> mywebpages.comcast.net/kbarton150236/Miata/elly.htm
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ben W Upton" <(email redacted)>
> To: <(email redacted)>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 10:54 PM
> Subject: [Miata] miata and corvair
>
>
> > It was posted that the miata and the corvair are very similar, and I'd
> > have to say, "GOD I HOPE NOT!" the corvair had a book written about it,
> > Unsafe At Any Speed, yeh, well I hope the miata isn't similar to the
> > corvair at all. doesn't seem to be, a little more successful. doesn't
> > have the nice propane heater, etc...
> > just my thoughts
> > Ben
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> > dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Miata mailing list
> > (email redacted)
> > realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Miata mailing list
> (email redacted)
> realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
> _______________________________________________
> Miata mailing list
> (email redacted)
> realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: jengeltx (Jeffrey Engel)

Keith,

You're my hero. I'm printing this and hanging it up
in the office.

In case you're wondering; Yes, I owned and loved
Corvairs for about 15 years. I'm a Maita newbie and
look forward to enjoying mine just as much.

Jeff Engel
============
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 17:45:15 -0400
From: (email redacted)
Subject: Re: [Miata] miata and corvair
To: Ben W Upton , (email redacted)

Unsafe at Any Speed was about Nader's pathetic need to
be noticed. The Corvair had the same basic suspension
layout as most European sports cars. Take it from the
people that drove them, not from an idiot author that
doesn't even have a drivers license. Nader wanted to
build up his ego by attacking GM, instead of VW, or
British Leyland. There was even a movie of a test by
an 'independent agency' (Ford) that showed its' poor
handling characteristics. It was proved to be a total
fraud. The Corvair was the best handling American car
of that time. Nader was and is a boob.

Keith Barton
99 LP - DelVal
mywebpages.comcast.net/kbarton150236/Miata/elly.htm

__________________________________________________
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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: kbarton150236 ((email redacted))

That was frequently a tire pressure problem. People tended to run the same
pressure on front and rear, but it was supposed to have much higher pressure
in the rear. IIRC, we were running 32 R & 22 F. John's right, the pre-65s
weren't as good as the later models, but with reasonable tires and proper
pressures, there is no way a caddy is going to be a better handling car.
I've driven both types and they were really good for the 60s.

Keith Barton
99 LP - DelVal
mywebpages.comcast.net/kbarton150236/Miata/elly.htm

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne Hawn" <(email redacted)>
To: <(email redacted)>; "Ben W Upton" <(email redacted)>;
<(email redacted)>
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 1:19 PM
Subject: RE: [Miata] miata and corvair


> Mine sure did not handle very well. I had a '62 convertible corvair for a
> while. When I could keep the thing running, it was a beast around the
> corners. Even the slow ones. The tail just did not want to stay put.
> Granted, the tires were crap, and the set up was probably all wrong, but
> even so, it was like driving on ice. My 63 caddy, which weighed God knows
> how many times more, handled better.
>
> Wayne
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: (email redacted) [mailto:(email redacted)]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 1:45 PM
> To: Ben W Upton; (email redacted)
> Subject: Re: [Miata] miata and corvair
>
> Unsafe at Any Speed was about Nader's pathetic need to be noticed. The
> Corvair had the same basic suspension layout as most European sports cars.
> Take it from the people that drove them, not from an idiot author that
> doesn't even have a drivers license. Nader wanted to build up his ego by
> attacking GM, instead of VW, or British Leyland. There was even a movie
of
> a test by an 'independent agency' (Ford) that showed its' poor handling
> characteristics. It was proved to be a total fraud. The Corvair was the
> best handling American car of that time. Nader was and is a boob.
>
> Keith Barton
> 99 LP - DelVal
> mywebpages.comcast.net/kbarton150236/Miata/elly.htm
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ben W Upton" <(email redacted)>
> To: <(email redacted)>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 10:54 PM
> Subject: [Miata] miata and corvair
>
>
> > It was posted that the miata and the corvair are very similar, and I'd
> > have to say, "GOD I HOPE NOT!" the corvair had a book written about it,
> > Unsafe At Any Speed, yeh, well I hope the miata isn't similar to the
> > corvair at all. doesn't seem to be, a little more successful. doesn't
> > have the nice propane heater, etc...
> > just my thoughts
> > Ben
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> > dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Miata mailing list
> > (email redacted)
> > realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Miata mailing list
> (email redacted)
> realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: kentmclean (Kent McLean)

Jeffrey Engel wrote:
>Yes, I owned and loved Corvairs for about 15 years. I'm a Maita
>newbie and look forward to enjoying mine just as much.

That shouldn't be too difficult. :-)

Kent, whose brother had a 64(?) Corvair with automatic, shifting on the
dashboard
'93 C-package black-and-tan




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Mail From: bwupton (Ben W Upton)

I'm not saying that Nadar has a brain, I'm just saying that car was a
pos. hince why it, nor any form of it is produced today. Propane
botttle under the dash as a heater. now that's interesting!
Ben
On Thu, 10 Oct 2002 06:06:52 -0400 Larry Alster <(email redacted)> writes:
> And the book was BS as was good old Ralph Nader's so called testing.
> A case
> of a zealot trying to make a name for himself at any cost.
>
> Larry
>
> White Knight 1991 Crystal White #99 CSP
> Silver Bullet 1992 Silverstone #17 EM BEGI System IV Turbo
> +
> Honey B 1992 Sunburst Yellow
>
> LowCountry Miata miata.net/lowcountry
> Masters Miata
> RAGS 074
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ben W Upton" <(email redacted)>
> To: <(email redacted)>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 10:54 PM
> Subject: [Miata] miata and corvair
>
>
> > It was posted that the miata and the corvair are very similar, and
> I'd
> > have to say, "GOD I HOPE NOT!" the corvair had a book written
> about it,
> > Unsafe At Any Speed, yeh, well I hope the miata isn't similar to
> the
> > corvair at all. doesn't seem to be, a little more successful.
> doesn't
> > have the nice propane heater, etc...
> > just my thoughts
> > Ben
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> > dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Miata mailing list
> > (email redacted)
> > realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
>
>
>
>

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Mail From: bwupton (Ben W Upton)

oh, well I've worked on both and the general opinion of me and other
mechanics that have worked on them is that they suck, PITA to work on,
not worth all the damn time spent. great examlpe is something someone
posted about the tranny seal having to be replaced every month, that's
pathetic, even for the 60's.

Yes Nadar is a moron, and he smoked way too much of the ol pot, but I
think its quite funny. the car was a bad attempt at air cooled sys. But
again I don't own one, and so I probably don't get it.
Ben
On Thu, 10 Oct 2002 07:19:52 -0400 John Hammer <(email redacted)>
writes:
> First: the Corvair/Miata reference I made was to the enthusiast crowd
>
> that understands and enjoys both cars.
>
> Second: The book "Unsafe At Any Speed" and the perception it created
>
> were founded in unfortunate (for the car & it's fans) mistruths.
> The
> following court case was in fact, WON by GM and proved that Nader
> was
> wrong. Sadly, the damage had been done. The court of public
> opinion
> ruled, even though it was wrong.
>
> I did have a great drive with our club last night though...my
> Miata's
> heater is HUGE compared to the heat exchanger on the 'ol Vair!
>
> --
> John Hammer
>
> Half Fast Racing!
> mywebpage.netscape.com/miataprez/index.html
>
> Creative Services Director
> Cumulus Broadcasting
> WKFR, WRKR, WKMI Kalamazoo, MI
>
>
>
>

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Mail From: bwupton (Ben W Upton)

hell yeh, I'm a ford guy, but oddly I've only owned one true ford.
damn a 428 in anything is badass, its just one of those motors that
everyone aww's at
Ben
On Thu, 10 Oct 2002 05:18:03 -0400 "Chaz Kiser" <(email redacted)>
writes:
> My dad, being the Ford man he is and a collector of Edsels, really
> takes
> offense to the fact that people diss his beloved Edsels. He
> maintains that
> the Corvair was every bit as crummy as the Edsel but never got the
> rep. lol.
> Of course dad likes to put 428cobra jet engines in his Edsels too.
> I doubt
> if he has any stock engines in them. Strange sense of humor
>
> Chaz
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ben W Upton <(email redacted)>
> To: <(email redacted)>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 10:54 PM
> Subject: [Miata] miata and corvair
>
>
> > It was posted that the miata and the corvair are very similar, and
> I'd
> > have to say, "GOD I HOPE NOT!" the corvair had a book written
> about it,
> > Unsafe At Any Speed, yeh, well I hope the miata isn't similar to
> the
> > corvair at all. doesn't seem to be, a little more successful.
> doesn't
> > have the nice propane heater, etc...
> > just my thoughts
> > Ben
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> > dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Miata mailing list
> > (email redacted)
> > realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
> >
>
>
>
>

________________________________________________________________
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Mail From: bwupton (Ben W Upton)

umm, lets think though, a heater that consists of a propane bottle and
fire, in an inclosed space...hummmm
I'm not saying they don't handle well, I'm saying that they are the
failed attempt of GM to make a VW Beetle
Ben
On Wed, 09 Oct 2002 17:45:15 -0400 (email redacted) writes:
> Unsafe at Any Speed was about Nader's pathetic need to be noticed.
> The
> Corvair had the same basic suspension layout as most European sports
> cars.
> Take it from the people that drove them, not from an idiot author
> that
> doesn't even have a drivers license. Nader wanted to build up his
> ego by
> attacking GM, instead of VW, or British Leyland. There was even a
> movie of
> a test by an 'independent agency' (Ford) that showed its' poor
> handling
> characteristics. It was proved to be a total fraud. The Corvair
> was the
> best handling American car of that time. Nader was and is a boob.
>
> Keith Barton
> 99 LP - DelVal
> mywebpages.comcast.net/kbarton150236/Miata/elly.htm
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ben W Upton" <(email redacted)>
> To: <(email redacted)>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 10:54 PM
> Subject: [Miata] miata and corvair
>
>
> > It was posted that the miata and the corvair are very similar, and
> I'd
> > have to say, "GOD I HOPE NOT!" the corvair had a book written
> about it,
> > Unsafe At Any Speed, yeh, well I hope the miata isn't similar to
> the
> > corvair at all. doesn't seem to be, a little more successful.
> doesn't
> > have the nice propane heater, etc...
> > just my thoughts
> > Ben
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> > dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Miata mailing list
> > (email redacted)
> > realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
> >
>
>
>
>

________________________________________________________________
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Mail From: bwupton (Ben W Upton)

increased tire pressure in the rear would make it have even more traction
problems or is the corvair a freak in yet another sense?
Ben
On Thu, 10 Oct 2002 04:31:34 -0400 (email redacted) writes:
> That was frequently a tire pressure problem. People tended to run
> the same
> pressure on front and rear, but it was supposed to have much higher
> pressure
> in the rear. IIRC, we were running 32 R & 22 F. John's right, the
> pre-65s
> weren't as good as the later models, but with reasonable tires and
> proper
> pressures, there is no way a caddy is going to be a better handling
> car.
> I've driven both types and they were really good for the 60s.
>
> Keith Barton
> 99 LP - DelVal
> mywebpages.comcast.net/kbarton150236/Miata/elly.htm
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Wayne Hawn" <(email redacted)>
> To: <(email redacted)>; "Ben W Upton" <(email redacted)>;
> <(email redacted)>
> Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 1:19 PM
> Subject: RE: [Miata] miata and corvair
>
>
> > Mine sure did not handle very well. I had a '62 convertible
> corvair for a
> > while. When I could keep the thing running, it was a beast around
> the
> > corners. Even the slow ones. The tail just did not want to stay
> put.
> > Granted, the tires were crap, and the set up was probably all
> wrong, but
> > even so, it was like driving on ice. My 63 caddy, which weighed
> God knows
> > how many times more, handled better.
> >
> > Wayne
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: (email redacted)
> [mailto:(email redacted)]
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 1:45 PM
> > To: Ben W Upton; (email redacted)
> > Subject: Re: [Miata] miata and corvair
> >
> > Unsafe at Any Speed was about Nader's pathetic need to be noticed.
> The
> > Corvair had the same basic suspension layout as most European
> sports cars.
> > Take it from the people that drove them, not from an idiot author
> that
> > doesn't even have a drivers license. Nader wanted to build up his
> ego by
> > attacking GM, instead of VW, or British Leyland. There was even a
> movie
> of
> > a test by an 'independent agency' (Ford) that showed its' poor
> handling
> > characteristics. It was proved to be a total fraud. The Corvair
> was the
> > best handling American car of that time. Nader was and is a
> boob.
> >
> > Keith Barton
> > 99 LP - DelVal
> > mywebpages.comcast.net/kbarton150236/Miata/elly.htm
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ben W Upton" <(email redacted)>
> > To: <(email redacted)>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 10:54 PM
> > Subject: [Miata] miata and corvair
> >
> >
> > > It was posted that the miata and the corvair are very similar,
> and I'd
> > > have to say, "GOD I HOPE NOT!" the corvair had a book written
> about it,
> > > Unsafe At Any Speed, yeh, well I hope the miata isn't similar to
> the
> > > corvair at all. doesn't seem to be, a little more successful.
> doesn't
> > > have the nice propane heater, etc...
> > > just my thoughts
> > > Ben
> > >
> > >
> ________________________________________________________________
> > > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> > > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> > > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> > > dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Miata mailing list
> > > (email redacted)
> > > realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Miata mailing list
> > (email redacted)
> > realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
>
>
>
>

________________________________________________________________
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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Larry (Larry Alster)

There are an awful lot of people that owned Corvairs that would disagree
with you Ben. I knew 2 owners, when I was a teenager, and they both loved
them.

Nader wanted to make a name for himself and he LIED and CHEATED about his so
called tests. The Corvair was different and therefore was easy prey.

Was it a great car?? NO, but it wasn't UNSAFE AT ANY SPEED.

Larry

White Knight 1991 Crystal White #99 CSP
Silver Bullet 1992 Silverstone #17 EM BEGI System IV Turbo +
Honey B 1992 Sunburst Yellow

LowCountry Miata miata.net/lowcountry
Masters Miata
RAGS 074

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben W Upton" <(email redacted)>
To: <(email redacted)>
Cc: <(email redacted)>
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 2:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Miata] miata and corvair


> I'm not saying that Nadar has a brain, I'm just saying that car was a
> pos. hince why it, nor any form of it is produced today. Propane
> botttle under the dash as a heater. now that's interesting!
> Ben
> On Thu, 10 Oct 2002 06:06:52 -0400 Larry Alster <(email redacted)> writes:
> > And the book was BS as was good old Ralph Nader's so called testing.
> > A case
> > of a zealot trying to make a name for himself at any cost.
> >
> > Larry
> >
> > White Knight 1991 Crystal White #99 CSP
> > Silver Bullet 1992 Silverstone #17 EM BEGI System IV Turbo
> > +
> > Honey B 1992 Sunburst Yellow
> >
> > LowCountry Miata miata.net/lowcountry
> > Masters Miata
> > RAGS 074
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ben W Upton" <(email redacted)>
> > To: <(email redacted)>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 10:54 PM
> > Subject: [Miata] miata and corvair
> >
> >
> > > It was posted that the miata and the corvair are very similar, and
> > I'd
> > > have to say, "GOD I HOPE NOT!" the corvair had a book written
> > about it,
> > > Unsafe At Any Speed, yeh, well I hope the miata isn't similar to
> > the
> > > corvair at all. doesn't seem to be, a little more successful.
> > doesn't
> > > have the nice propane heater, etc...
> > > just my thoughts
> > > Ben
> > >
> > > ________________________________________________________________
> > > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> > > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> > > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> > > dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Miata mailing list
> > > (email redacted)
> > > realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: PaulW (Paul Williamson)

At 10/11/2002 06:06 AM, Larry Alster wrote:
>There are an awful lot of people that owned Corvairs that would disagree
>with you Ben. I knew 2 owners, when I was a teenager, and they both loved
>them.

And you know one as an adult. I have had 4 Corvairs (one being a Corvan)
during my reign of terror as a young man (not boy.... man!). I loved them
all, except the van. The latest one, by 67 Monza Spyder was one of the
best cars I ever drove, and that was in New England too! No propane heater
as the convection header from the manifold was plenty warm enough. The
only problem I had was when the shifting tubes rusted together. Rather
than using linkage cables, the Corvair had two concentric tubes down the
tunnel from the shifter to the gearbox. Water got into them and if they
weren't lubricated right and sat for a period of time, they rusted
together. Since I was in the Navy at the time, deployments of many months
allowed our beasts to sit idle in the weather. But other than that, it was
a blast to drive. As for working on them, Ben, the only thing I can say is
I guess you weren't up to the challenge. It indeed was a challenge to
think differently about the engine and transaxle configuration, but
certainly a learning experience that one won't ever forget.


Paul and the Splendidly Striped Silver Screamer
mailto:(email redacted)
Homepage: surfbest.net/~(email redacted)/
ICQ: 146034448
hometown: Zephyrhills, Florida, USA
Never drive any faster than your guardian angel can fly.

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: shsharp (Sam Sharp)

It wasn't propane, and there was no bottle under the dash. It was fueled
from GASOLINE from the gas tank. It had a spark plug, it's own points and
coil ignition system, fuel pump, and thermostat. It worked quite well and
provided instant heat. It was located in the "trunk" in the front, on the
other side of the firewall from the occupants.

Sam

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben W Upton" <(email redacted)>
To: <(email redacted)>
Cc: <(email redacted)>
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 12:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Miata] miata and corvair


> I'm not saying that Nadar has a brain, I'm just saying that car was a
> pos. hince why it, nor any form of it is produced today. Propane
> botttle under the dash as a heater. now that's interesting!
> Ben
> On Thu, 10 Oct 2002 06:06:52 -0400 Larry Alster <(email redacted)> writes:
> > And the book was BS as was good old Ralph Nader's so called testing.
> > A case
> > of a zealot trying to make a name for himself at any cost.
> >
> > Larry
> >
> > White Knight 1991 Crystal White #99 CSP
> > Silver Bullet 1992 Silverstone #17 EM BEGI System IV Turbo
> > +
> > Honey B 1992 Sunburst Yellow
> >
> > LowCountry Miata miata.net/lowcountry
> > Masters Miata
> > RAGS 074
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ben W Upton" <(email redacted)>
> > To: <(email redacted)>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 10:54 PM
> > Subject: [Miata] miata and corvair
> >
> >
> > > It was posted that the miata and the corvair are very similar, and
> > I'd
> > > have to say, "GOD I HOPE NOT!" the corvair had a book written
> > about it,
> > > Unsafe At Any Speed, yeh, well I hope the miata isn't similar to
> > the
> > > corvair at all. doesn't seem to be, a little more successful.
> > doesn't
> > > have the nice propane heater, etc...
> > > just my thoughts
> > > Ben
> > >
> > > ________________________________________________________________
> > > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> > > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> > > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> > > dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Miata mailing list
> > > (email redacted)
> > > realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
> _______________________________________________
> Miata mailing list
> (email redacted)
> realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: bigmouthjohn ((email redacted))

"I don't own one, and so I probably don't get it."


Exactly my point, the general masses didn't "get it" but
the enthusiast crowd did. Again, comparing Corvair to
Miata, the "Secretary's Car" theme is prevalent, unless
you're an enthusiast who knows better.

FWIW, I drove my '68 Monza for 5 years (from '90-'95
when the car was 22+ years old) and never had to do
anything but change oil & tune it up.


--
John Hammer
AutoRacing1.com

Creative Services Director
Cumulus Broadcasting, Kalamazoo MI

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Tim.Mullen (Mullen, Tim)

[this was a MIME-encoded message - it has been]
[filtered of non-plaintext attachments by ALF ]


I keep forgetting to include a subject...

> (email redacted) wrote:
>
> > <...> I've never seen a Corvair with a propane bottle
> > under the dash. The one's I've driven had an air exchanger
> > heating system.
>
> Just like Porsches and VWs and various air cooled aircraft...
>
> > There is no seal that had to be replaced every month. The
> > mechanics you've talked to don't know what they're talking about.
>
> I suspect that this comment came from my earlier post. My buddy had
> a "hopped up" Corvair (pistons, cam, carbs, manifolds, headers, etc.).
> It was estimated to have around 275+ HP. It used to regularly beat
> the other local racers driving "hopped up" Vettes, Mustangs,
> Camaros, etc. (this was back in the eerily '70s) - and yes, we often
> went to the drag strip with the Corvair...
>
> With that much power, it used to "whip" the "driveshaft" around and
> tended to eat the input shaft seal on the tranny. That's why we had
> to replace the seal often. Before my buddy inherited the Corvair from
> his Dad, it had been used for daily transportation for about 150,000
> miles without a single repair (other than tune-ups, brake jobs, etc. -
> nothing major) and that included not needing any seals. The Corvair
> had been extremely reliable.
>
> > The one I learned to drive in went 160,000 miles without having the
> > tranny seal replaced *ever*.
>
> See above... 8-)
>
> > ALL of the sports car enthusiasts thought the Corvair
> > was very special, hence the Fitch Sprint and Yenko Stinger.
>
> Yep. They were GREAT cars...
>
> The one I had for a short while had a "suspension package" installed
> by the previous owner. Stiff sway bars, shorter stiffer springs, and
> shocks, and wide tires on alloy wheels. It would easily out handle
> my '94 R Package Miata...
>
> Tim Mullen
>
> Chantilly, VA
> 94 Miata R Package
> 72 Lotus Elan Sprint


[ALF: attachment (type="text/html") removed from message]

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: bwupton (Ben W Upton)

true, the owners do love them, kinda like dodge's. owners like em, but
everyone else doesn't so much.

yeh Nadar did, and it was a very easy prey, so it got attacked.
also agree that it wasn't unsafe at any speed, but i wouldn't say that
its safe at any speed either.
Ben
On Fri, 11 Oct 2002 06:06:01 -0400 Larry Alster <(email redacted)> writes:
> There are an awful lot of people that owned Corvairs that would
> disagree
> with you Ben. I knew 2 owners, when I was a teenager, and they both
> loved
> them.
>
> Nader wanted to make a name for himself and he LIED and CHEATED
> about his so
> called tests. The Corvair was different and therefore was easy
> prey.
>
> Was it a great car?? NO, but it wasn't UNSAFE AT ANY SPEED.
>
> Larry
>
> White Knight 1991 Crystal White #99 CSP
> Silver Bullet 1992 Silverstone #17 EM BEGI System IV Turbo
> +
> Honey B 1992 Sunburst Yellow
>
> LowCountry Miata miata.net/lowcountry
> Masters Miata
> RAGS 074
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ben W Upton" <(email redacted)>
> To: <(email redacted)>
> Cc: <(email redacted)>
> Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 2:03 AM
> Subject: Re: [Miata] miata and corvair
>
>
> > I'm not saying that Nadar has a brain, I'm just saying that car
> was a
> > pos. hince why it, nor any form of it is produced today.
> Propane
> > botttle under the dash as a heater. now that's interesting!
> > Ben
> > On Thu, 10 Oct 2002 06:06:52 -0400 Larry Alster <(email redacted)>
> writes:
> > > And the book was BS as was good old Ralph Nader's so called
> testing.
> > > A case
> > > of a zealot trying to make a name for himself at any cost.
> > >
> > > Larry
> > >
> > > White Knight 1991 Crystal White #99 CSP
> > > Silver Bullet 1992 Silverstone #17 EM BEGI System IV
> Turbo
> > > +
> > > Honey B 1992 Sunburst Yellow
> > >
> > > LowCountry Miata miata.net/lowcountry
> > > Masters Miata
> > > RAGS 074
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Ben W Upton" <(email redacted)>
> > > To: <(email redacted)>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 10:54 PM
> > > Subject: [Miata] miata and corvair
> > >
> > >
> > > > It was posted that the miata and the corvair are very similar,
> and
> > > I'd
> > > > have to say, "GOD I HOPE NOT!" the corvair had a book written
> > > about it,
> > > > Unsafe At Any Speed, yeh, well I hope the miata isn't similar
> to
> > > the
> > > > corvair at all. doesn't seem to be, a little more
> successful.
> > > doesn't
> > > > have the nice propane heater, etc...
> > > > just my thoughts
> > > > Ben
> > > >
> > > >
> ________________________________________________________________
> > > > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> > > > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> > > > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> > > > dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Miata mailing list
> > > > (email redacted)
> > > > realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> > dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
>
>
>
>

________________________________________________________________
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Mail From: PaulW (Paul Williamson)

At 10/12/2002 02:39 AM, Ben W Upton wrote:
>yeh Nadar did, and it was a very easy prey, so it got attacked.
>also agree that it wasn't unsafe at any speed, but i wouldn't say that
>its safe at any speed either.

I would say it was as safe as most other cars on the road at the time. And
safer than some too. GM did a poor job in educating the public about the
characteristics of the car and Nadar played into that as well.


Paul and the Splendidly Striped Silver Screamer
mailto:(email redacted)
Homepage: surfbest.net/~(email redacted)/
ICQ: 146034448
hometown: Zephyrhills, Florida, USA
Never drive any faster than your guardian angel can fly.

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: kcmurphy72 (KC Murphy)

> Nader wanted to make a name for himself and he LIED and CHEATED
> about his so
> called tests. The Corvair was different and therefore was easy prey.
>

Sounds remarkably similar to what Comsumers Union did to the Suzuki Samurai
a few years ago... All the lies are coming to surface, and CU may be in a
*lot* of trouble...

There's some good video here from CU showing how they rigged the tests.

media.suzuki.com/auto/press02/suzukivcu/index.html

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: kbarton150236 ((email redacted))

Yeah, basically the same idea. In the Corvair footage, they showed how much
better the Falcon handled. LOL The Corvair would spin out every time it was
on the fairly straight portion of track in front of the camera, only to
catch up again on the curvy parts away from the camera (hmmmm). Closer
examination showed the driver yanking the wheel over to get the Corvair to
conveniently spin out at the most opportune moment.

Keith Barton
99 LP - DelVal
mywebpages.comcast.net/kbarton150236/Miata/elly.htm

----- Original Message -----
From: "KC Murphy" <(email redacted)>
> >
>
> Sounds remarkably similar to what Comsumers Union did to the Suzuki
Samurai
> a few years ago... All the lies are coming to surface, and CU may be in a
> *lot* of trouble...
>
> There's some good video here from CU showing how they rigged the tests.
>
> media.suzuki.com/auto/press02/suzukivcu/index.html
>
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: dwynne (Dennis Wynne)

More like what Dateline NBC did about the truck catching on fire in the
wreck, When it would not burst into flames for the cameras they rigged it
with a "squib" to make it catch fire - and were caught.

Volvo's ad agency once ran a commercial where they ran a monster truck (or
something) over the competition (it smushed) and over a Volvo (it did not
bend). Later the ad agency admitted to stiffening the Volvo and/or cutting
the other cars to make the ad "more effective".

The Suzukis were hunks of junk and could be made to tip up on a level
surface - I would think it would be a LOT worse out in the real world
with uneven road surfaces, road camber, etc.

Did you see the Car & Driver footage of them blowing out a tire on an
Explorer and TRYING to get it to roll? Could not do it. I don't know
what the folks having the wrecks did when the tire blew (not their fault)
but it would appear that their actions help to get them rolled over.

Dennis

At 09:32 AM 10/12/2002 -0500, KC Murphy wrote:
> > Nader wanted to make a name for himself and he LIED and CHEATED
> > about his so
> > called tests. The Corvair was different and therefore was easy prey.
> >
>
>Sounds remarkably similar to what Comsumers Union did to the Suzuki Samurai
>a few years ago... All the lies are coming to surface, and CU may be in a
>*lot* of trouble...
>
>There's some good video here from CU showing how they rigged the tests.
>
>media.suzuki.com/auto/press02/suzukivcu/index.html
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Miata mailing list
>(email redacted)
>realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata