Miata List Archive

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: mga (mga)

By having the car in neutral and not having the clutch disengaged while at
stops with engine running, you do save the crankshaft thrust washers from
wear. The clutch when disengaged puts enormous stress pushing the
crankshaft forward. If you only plan to have the car a short time, no big
deal. But if it's a car you want to keep for a long time, don't sit with
the engine running and the clutch disengaged for long periods.

Don Scott

At 03:57 PM 04/26/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>Scott,
>
>I was only disagreeing with the notion that releasing the clutch at a light
>saves the throwout bearing. If you car is stalling because the clutch is
>sticking, or not disengaging completely, then by all means take it out of
>gear when driving it until you can get the root cause fixed.
>
>My only complaint is the people who take it out of gear at a light because
>they think they are saving the throwout bearing and then I have to wait
>while they fumble to get if back in gear when the light turns green.
>
>
>Tom Blough &
>"Molly" Red '99 LP
>Avon, CT
>Nutmeg Miata President/Webmaster
>mailto:(email redacted)
>nutmegmiata.org
>
>"Driver does not carry cash - He's married"
>FYI, Racecar spelled backwards is racecaR
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Scott McCloskey [mailto:(email redacted)]
>Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 3:54 PM
>To: Tom Blough; Ackerson,Bradley K; 'Berck E. Nash'; (email redacted)
>Subject: RE: [Miata] Problems with Stalling
>
>
>So only take it out of gear when I'm having this
>vibration/clutch problem?
>
>This is now my primary car... can I drive on it like this for a
>few more days and not risk damaging other parts of my tranny,
>etc? And if I should avoid driving till I fix it, what
>should/should not I being doing on my commute home tonight?
>
>Thanks.
>
>--- Tom Blough <(email redacted)> wrote:
>> I'd have to disagree that flicking it out of gear will save
>> the throwout
>> bearing. When you do this you are cycling the bearing one
>> additional time
>> every stop. Most wear in bearings occurs at low RPM because
>> the oil film
>> has been pressed out between the balls and race when they are
>> stopped so
>> they start up essentially dry.
>>
>>
>> Tom Blough &
>> "Molly" Red '99 LP
>> Avon, CT
>> Nutmeg Miata President/Webmaster
>> mailto:(email redacted)
>> nutmegmiata.org
>>
>> "Driver does not carry cash - He's married"
>> FYI, Racecar spelled backwards is racecaR
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ackerson,Bradley K [mailto:(email redacted)]
>> Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 2:48 PM
>> To: 'Berck E. Nash'; Scott McCloskey; (email redacted)
>> Subject: RE: [Miata] Problems with Stalling
>>
>>
>> First, I would suggest to "flick it out of first" into neutral
>> if you're
>> sitting at a stop for any length of time since its easier than
>> replacing the
>> throw out bearing sooner than you would otherwise have to. I
>> agree that
>> this could be a symptom of incomplete clutch disengagement
>> since your car
>> only stalls in gear. This can be a little hard on your
>> transmission in the
>> long run, particularly if shifting is difficult. I would
>> agree with
>> checking the clutch fluid reservoir to see if it has adequate
>> fluid and
>> checking the slave cylinder for leakage if it does not. I
>> would also
>> consider checking the master cylinder too if all else looks
>> ok, but master
>> cylinders usually last longer than the slave (my first master
>> cylinder went
>> 250k miles).
>> Good luck!
>> Brad A.
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Berck E. Nash [SMTP:(email redacted)]
>> > Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 9:58 AM
>> > To: Scott McCloskey; (email redacted)
>> > Subject: Re: [Miata] Problems with Stalling
>> >
>> > charset="iso-8859-1"
>> >
>> > I'm not sure about the neutral/first thing. Perhaps the
>> clutch isn't
>> > fully
>> > disengaging? Do you have trouble getting it in gear? If
>> so, I'd check
>> > the
>> > clutch slave cylinder for leakage.
>> >
>> > Also, check your base idle. Jump the Ten and GRND pins in
>> the "diagnoses"
>> > plug once the car is warm, and set the idle to 900RPM.
>> Check the
>> > maita.net
>> > garage section for more detailed instructions. A low base
>> idle will cause
>> > stalling when you pull to a stop.
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Scott McCloskey" <(email redacted)>
>> > To: <(email redacted)>
>> > Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 12:31 PM
>> > Subject: [Miata] Problems with Stalling
>> >
>> >
>> > > Hi everyone, I'm new to the list, so I have a new-guy
>> question
>> > > as well as a more technical one.
>> > >
>> > > First, is there a page with a list of the on-going
>> > > correspondences that are updated as the occur, or do I
>> have to
>> > > wait for this daily email thingy? If someone could go
>> ahead and
>> > > send me an email with the link that would be great...
>> > > (email redacted)
>> > >
>> > > I don't care if people know my actual email address, but
>> it is
>> > > amazingly spam-free at this moment, so if anyone sends me
>> any
>> > > b/c of this, I'll have to hunt you down and stick a "My
>> Other
>> > > Car's an SUV" sticker on their miata!
>> > >
>> > > OK, so now the real question. I just purchased a 92 miata
>> > > (silverstone) and it is in really good condition with only
>> 71K
>> > > on the odometer. But, recently (usually after freeway
>> speeds
>> > > for at least 10 minutes) when I come to a stop, have the
>> clutch
>> > > in, and the gearbox in 1st, the engine rpms will drop low
>> enough
>> > > that the miata starts to shake a bit, and even once or
>> twice it
>> > > has actually completely died on me! I feel as though it's
>> just
>> > > set to idle too low, but then again, sometimes it has no
>> > > problems at all...
>> > >
>> > > One more thing to note also, when I pull it out of 1st and
>> leave
>> > > it in the neutral middle, this low idle problem always
>> goes
>> > > away.
>> > >
>> > > Help someone, b/c it's really freakin annoying...
>> especially
>> > > when friends are in there with me and I have to keep
>> flicking it
>> > > out of gear at each stop, so as not to embarass myself and
>> my
>> > > miata!
>> > >
>> > > And if someone could send me that link...
>> > > --_Scott
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > =====
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > __________________________________________________
>> > > Do You Yahoo!?
>> > > Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
>> > > games.yahoo.com/
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Miata mailing list
>> > > (email redacted)
>> > > realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
>> > >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Miata mailing list
>> > (email redacted)
>> > realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
>> _______________________________________________
>> Miata mailing list
>> (email redacted)
>> realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
>
>
>=====
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
>games.yahoo.com/
>_______________________________________________
>Miata mailing list
>(email redacted)
>realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
>
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: tblough (Tom Blough)

1986 Toyota Corolla GTS 178,000 miles on original clutch and throwout
bearing, crank endplay was below manufacturer limits at time it was sold.

1993 Mazda Miata 120,000 miles, original clutch, used no oil between 3000
mile changes when it was sold.

1999 Mazda Miata 51,000 miles, crank endplay measures less than 1/4 of the
max spec.


Any data to back up your claim of increased wear? The thrust bearing runs
on a hydrostatic film of oil. As long as you have good oil pressure, there
is no metal to metal contact. Thrust bearing wear occurs when there is too
much endplay to support a hydrostatic film or when the bearing is dry (as in
starting).



Tom Blough &
"Molly" Red '99 LP
Avon, CT
Nutmeg Miata President/Webmaster
mailto:(email redacted)
nutmegmiata.org

"Driver does not carry cash - He's married"
FYI, Racecar spelled backwards is racecaR


-----Original Message-----
From: mga [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 10:28 PM
To: (email redacted)
Subject: [Miata] Leave it in neutral?


By having the car in neutral and not having the clutch disengaged while at
stops with engine running, you do save the crankshaft thrust washers from
wear. The clutch when disengaged puts enormous stress pushing the
crankshaft forward. If you only plan to have the car a short time, no big
deal. But if it's a car you want to keep for a long time, don't sit with
the engine running and the clutch disengaged for long periods.

Don Scott

At 03:57 PM 04/26/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>Scott,
>
>I was only disagreeing with the notion that releasing the clutch at a light
>saves the throwout bearing. If you car is stalling because the clutch is
>sticking, or not disengaging completely, then by all means take it out of
>gear when driving it until you can get the root cause fixed.
>
>My only complaint is the people who take it out of gear at a light because
>they think they are saving the throwout bearing and then I have to wait
>while they fumble to get if back in gear when the light turns green.
>
>
>Tom Blough &
>"Molly" Red '99 LP
>Avon, CT
>Nutmeg Miata President/Webmaster
>mailto:(email redacted)
>nutmegmiata.org
>
>"Driver does not carry cash - He's married"
>FYI, Racecar spelled backwards is racecaR
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Scott McCloskey [mailto:(email redacted)]
>Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 3:54 PM
>To: Tom Blough; Ackerson,Bradley K; 'Berck E. Nash'; (email redacted)
>Subject: RE: [Miata] Problems with Stalling
>
>
>So only take it out of gear when I'm having this
>vibration/clutch problem?
>
>This is now my primary car... can I drive on it like this for a
>few more days and not risk damaging other parts of my tranny,
>etc? And if I should avoid driving till I fix it, what
>should/should not I being doing on my commute home tonight?
>
>Thanks.
>
>--- Tom Blough <(email redacted)> wrote:
>> I'd have to disagree that flicking it out of gear will save
>> the throwout
>> bearing. When you do this you are cycling the bearing one
>> additional time
>> every stop. Most wear in bearings occurs at low RPM because
>> the oil film
>> has been pressed out between the balls and race when they are
>> stopped so
>> they start up essentially dry.
>>
>>
>> Tom Blough &
>> "Molly" Red '99 LP
>> Avon, CT
>> Nutmeg Miata President/Webmaster
>> mailto:(email redacted)
>> nutmegmiata.org
>>
>> "Driver does not carry cash - He's married"
>> FYI, Racecar spelled backwards is racecaR
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ackerson,Bradley K [mailto:(email redacted)]
>> Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 2:48 PM
>> To: 'Berck E. Nash'; Scott McCloskey; (email redacted)
>> Subject: RE: [Miata] Problems with Stalling
>>
>>
>> First, I would suggest to "flick it out of first" into neutral
>> if you're
>> sitting at a stop for any length of time since its easier than
>> replacing the
>> throw out bearing sooner than you would otherwise have to. I
>> agree that
>> this could be a symptom of incomplete clutch disengagement
>> since your car
>> only stalls in gear. This can be a little hard on your
>> transmission in the
>> long run, particularly if shifting is difficult. I would
>> agree with
>> checking the clutch fluid reservoir to see if it has adequate
>> fluid and
>> checking the slave cylinder for leakage if it does not. I
>> would also
>> consider checking the master cylinder too if all else looks
>> ok, but master
>> cylinders usually last longer than the slave (my first master
>> cylinder went
>> 250k miles).
>> Good luck!
>> Brad A.
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Berck E. Nash [SMTP:(email redacted)]
>> > Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 9:58 AM
>> > To: Scott McCloskey; (email redacted)
>> > Subject: Re: [Miata] Problems with Stalling
>> >
>> > charset="iso-8859-1"
>> >
>> > I'm not sure about the neutral/first thing. Perhaps the
>> clutch isn't
>> > fully
>> > disengaging? Do you have trouble getting it in gear? If
>> so, I'd check
>> > the
>> > clutch slave cylinder for leakage.
>> >
>> > Also, check your base idle. Jump the Ten and GRND pins in
>> the "diagnoses"
>> > plug once the car is warm, and set the idle to 900RPM.
>> Check the
>> > maita.net
>> > garage section for more detailed instructions. A low base
>> idle will cause
>> > stalling when you pull to a stop.
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Scott McCloskey" <(email redacted)>
>> > To: <(email redacted)>
>> > Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 12:31 PM
>> > Subject: [Miata] Problems with Stalling
>> >
>> >
>> > > Hi everyone, I'm new to the list, so I have a new-guy
>> question
>> > > as well as a more technical one.
>> > >
>> > > First, is there a page with a list of the on-going
>> > > correspondences that are updated as the occur, or do I
>> have to
>> > > wait for this daily email thingy? If someone could go
>> ahead and
>> > > send me an email with the link that would be great...
>> > > (email redacted)
>> > >
>> > > I don't care if people know my actual email address, but
>> it is
>> > > amazingly spam-free at this moment, so if anyone sends me
>> any
>> > > b/c of this, I'll have to hunt you down and stick a "My
>> Other
>> > > Car's an SUV" sticker on their miata!
>> > >
>> > > OK, so now the real question. I just purchased a 92 miata
>> > > (silverstone) and it is in really good condition with only
>> 71K
>> > > on the odometer. But, recently (usually after freeway
>> speeds
>> > > for at least 10 minutes) when I come to a stop, have the
>> clutch
>> > > in, and the gearbox in 1st, the engine rpms will drop low
>> enough
>> > > that the miata starts to shake a bit, and even once or
>> twice it
>> > > has actually completely died on me! I feel as though it's
>> just
>> > > set to idle too low, but then again, sometimes it has no
>> > > problems at all...
>> > >
>> > > One more thing to note also, when I pull it out of 1st and
>> leave
>> > > it in the neutral middle, this low idle problem always
>> goes
>> > > away.
>> > >
>> > > Help someone, b/c it's really freakin annoying...
>> especially
>> > > when friends are in there with me and I have to keep
>> flicking it
>> > > out of gear at each stop, so as not to embarass myself and
>> my
>> > > miata!
>> > >
>> > > And if someone could send me that link...
>> > > --_Scott
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > =====
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > __________________________________________________
>> > > Do You Yahoo!?
>> > > Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
>> > > games.yahoo.com/
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Miata mailing list
>> > > (email redacted)
>> > > realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
>> > >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Miata mailing list
>> > (email redacted)
>> > realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
>> _______________________________________________
>> Miata mailing list
>> (email redacted)
>> realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
>
>
>=====
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
>games.yahoo.com/
>_______________________________________________
>Miata mailing list
>(email redacted)
>realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
>
>

_______________________________________________
Miata mailing list
(email redacted)
realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata