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Mail From: ptb5star (Bob)

Did anyone notice a few months ago that when the oil companies announced
their obscene profits and it got everybodys attention and there were
congressional hearings and the threat of lynchings that gas prices magically
dropped? No change in crude oil prices, no change in supply, no refineries
coming back online, no sudden new oil fields being discovered, just
attention. Now that we have been distracted by other news the prices have
been slowly creeping back up. Tell me that's not profiteering.
Bob
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Mail From: bonni (Bonni Weatherwax)


***Oh, you hit the nail on the head alright, Bob. Out here in California it seems we never even got a price break yet. It's rediculous.


Tell me that's not profiteering.
Bob





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Mail From: the.jack (the.jack)

Great point Bob. I was going to stay away from the topic, but since
someone else raised his hand first... ;)
Stein's comments are appreciated in that they offer an alternative
opinion, but come on...
I loved the stunning argument of "let's allow these big companies to
do what they do best and leave them alone..." Come on, Ben. How naive are
you? As if all corporations are safely assumed to be trustworthy. I laugh
at that.
I am all for people and companies making justifiable profits (using
pharmaceuticals as a base line of trustworthy corps was another joke to me),
but I am definitely not for profiteering. You can argue all day about what
"justifiable" profits are, I realize, but I'm sure "we" (in a general sense)
can come to a rough agreement on what is reasonable and unreasonable.
Ben's definitely right in that the more dependent "we" are on some
market, the more angry we'll get at the price games - and pharmaceuticals
(in the US at least) is a good example for my (and perhaps Bill's) point,
not Ben's. Oh well. I don't run the world, I run extremely little of it ;)

Chris C.
===================================
99 Mazda Miata 5-sp
97 Dodge Ramwagon 3.9 slush-o-matic
97 Saab 900 Talladega 5-sp
91 XJ 4.0HO 30s
-----Original Message-----
From: (email redacted) [mailto:(email redacted)] On Behalf
Of Bob
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 12.41
To: list
Subject: [Miata] Re: Gas prices, Ben Stein and other mythologies

Did anyone notice a few months ago that when the oil companies announced
their obscene profits and it got everybodys attention and there were
congressional hearings and the threat of lynchings that gas prices magically
dropped? No change in crude oil prices, no change in supply, no refineries
coming back online, no sudden new oil fields being discovered, just
attention. Now that we have been distracted by other news the prices have
been slowly creeping back up. Tell me that's not profiteering.

Bob

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: bryanewyatt (Bryan Wyatt)

FWIW, it's not "profiteering," it's called business. Gas is being sold at a price that people will continue to pay, even though it keeps going up. Until people stop paying (LOTS of people, not just one or two ninnies who send an email to "boycott evil company xxxx"), the price will go up.

If I were a kid at a lemonade stand, and suddenly found that I could charge $0.50 and people would still buy it, why not charge $0.50? If my only goal is to make more money for that bike I've been wanting, who cares if only two people complain and go to Susie's $0.25 stand?

I don't know why people expect them to "play fair". There's no such thing as "fair" until people (a far majority of the market) stop paying for it and/or find an alternative. Plain and simple.

-Bryan

p.s. Keep in mind, gasoline isn't the only thing Exxon and Co. actually do for a living...

Bonni Weatherwax <(email redacted)> wrote:
FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 4.0 ;
***Oh, you hit the nail on the head alright, Bob. Out here in California it seems we never even got a price break yet. It's rediculous.


Tell me that's not profiteering.
Bob


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Mail From: nogood123 (NoGood)

The new higher prices came out just after the results of a national
poll that found people were willing to pay more for gas if it was for a
good cause. Obviously increased profits are a good cause.


On Mar 6, 2006, at 12:51 PM, Bryan Wyatt wrote:

> FWIW, it's not "profiteering," it's called business.? Gas is being
> sold at a price that people will continue to pay, even though it keeps
> going up.? Until people stop paying (LOTS of people, not just one or
> two ninnies who send an email to "boycott evil company xxxx"), the
> price will go up.
> ?
> If I were a kid at a lemonade stand, and suddenly found that I could
> charge $0.50 and people would still buy it, why not charge $0.50?? If
> my only goal is to make more money for that bike I've been wanting,
> who cares if only two people complain and go to Susie's $0.25 stand?
> ?
> I don't know why people expect them to "play fair".? There's no such
> thing as "fair" until people (a far majority of the market) stop
> paying for it and/or find an alternative.? Plain and simple.
> ?
> -Bryan
> ?
> p.s. Keep in mind, gasoline isn't the only thing Exxon and Co.
> actually! do for a living...
>
> Bonni Weatherwax <(email redacted)> wrote:
>> ?
>> ***Oh, you hit the nail on the head alright, Bob.? Out here in
>> California it seems we never even got a price break yet.? It's
>> rediculous.
>>>
>>> Tell me that's not profiteering.
>>> Bob?
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Miata mailing list
>> (email redacted)
>> ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
>
>
>
> No signature...the choice of a New Generation
>
> Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty
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Mail From: the.jack (the.jack)

Don't take this as an attack Bryan, it's all in the spirit of
discussion... But that [lemonade stand] is not a parallel example. If I
see you (as a kid) selling lemonade at .50 a cup and get some, come around
the next and see it's 1.00 I can choose to go to the convenient mart and get
a Pepsi (or Coke) for the same. So I do that instead. If you don't like
the price of gas at one place you can drive around and maybe save 60 cents
on a Jackson, probably less after driving around, maybe a little more if
looked up a website ahead of time, but unless you are in a city with great
public transportation you can't NOT buy gas. We drive a lot less and most
people we know drive a lot less. I dropped my gas guzzling SUV #1 because I
hated driving it and #2 because of the gas in favor of a Miata, which
obviously does better. We don't see my friend who lives about 30 minutes
away nearly as often over the past year or so as a result of this. I've cut
my thermostat to max at 66* in the house this winter... I'm seeing the
prices rise and while I can CUT my usage I can't simple say, "no I'm not
buying that product".
We could argue profiteering all day because it merely says it's
making profits by "unethical" means. I think taking advantage of a captive
audience is unethical, maybe that means I'm a socialist. Not something I've
ever considered myself, but I'm open to discussion as always ;)

Chris C.
===================================
99 Mazda Miata 5-sp
97 Dodge Ramwagon 3.9 slush-o-matic
97 Saab 900 Talladega 5-sp
91 XJ 4.0HO 30s

-----Original Message-----
From: (email redacted) [mailto:(email redacted)] On Behalf
Of Bryan Wyatt
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 13.52
To: list
Subject: Re: [Miata] Re: Gas prices, Ben Stein and other mythologies

FWIW, it's not "profiteering," it's called business. Gas is being sold at a
price that people will continue to pay, even though it keeps going up.
Until people stop paying (LOTS of people, not just one or two ninnies who
send an email to "boycott evil company xxxx"), the price will go up.

If I were a kid at a lemonade stand, and suddenly found that I could charge
$0.50 and people would still buy it, why not charge $0.50? If my only goal
is to make more money for that bike I've been wanting, who cares if only two
people complain and go to Susie's $0.25 stand?

I don't know why people expect them to "play fair". There's no such thing
as "fair" until people (a far majority of the market) stop paying for it
and/or find an alternative. Plain and simple.

-Bryan

p.s. Keep in mind, gasoline isn't the only thing Exxon and Co. actually do
for a living...

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: bonni (Bonni Weatherwax)

Obviously increased profits are a good cause.

***I hate to be a cynic here, but how often do the profits really go to where they are supposed to be going? Many of us in California are heading for a flooding disaster, so the news says (at least for the Sacramento area) . . . does that mean our gas prices are going to go up even more to fix our levees? Somehow I doubt that. We have enough money in the kitty already to do that, and yet, we're in danger of being flooded out. I wish this weren't true, but as I see it, it is.

BW
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Mail From: miatabill (Bill Kellenberger)

Interesting concept. How do you propose we stop paying for it? They
prosecute 'drive-off's' where I live.

At 12:51 PM 3/6/2006, Bryan Wyatt wrote:
>FWIW, it's not "profiteering," it's called business. Gas is being
>sold at a price that people will continue to pay, even though it
>keeps going up. Until people stop paying (LOTS of people, not just
>one or two ninnies who send an email to "boycott evil company
>xxxx"), the price will go up.
>
>If I were a kid at a lemonade stand, and suddenly found that I could
>charge $0.50 and people would still buy it, why not charge
>$0.50? If my only goal is to make more money for that bike I've
>been wanting, who cares if only two people complain and go to
>Susie's $0.25 stand?
>
>I don't know why people expect them to "play fair". There's no such
>thing as "fair" until people (a far majority of the market) stop
>paying for it and/or find an alternative. Plain and simple.
>
>-Bryan
>
>p.s. Keep in mind, gasoline isn't the only thing Exxon and Co. ac!
>tually do for a living...
>
>Bonni Weatherwax <(email redacted)> wrote:
>
>***Oh, you hit the nail on the head alright, Bob. Out here in
>California it seems we never even got a price break yet. It's rediculous.
>Tell me that's not profiteering.
>Bob
>
>_______________________________________________
>Miata mailing list
>(email redacted)
>ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
>
>
>
>
>No signature...the choice of a New Generation
>
>
>Relax. Yahoo! Mail
><us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/virusall/*communications.yahoo.com/features.php?page=221>virus
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>Miata mailing list
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Bill Kellenberger
www.miatabill.com
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Mail From: bryanewyatt (Bryan Wyatt)

I seriously doubt that's the case. People will pay, prices go up...doesn't have to be more complicated than that.

Life ain't fair people. Get over it.

-Bryan

NoGood <(email redacted)> wrote:
The new higher prices came out just after the results of a national
poll that found people were willing to pay more for gas if it was for a
good cause. Obviously increased profits are a good cause.


On Mar 6, 2006, at 12:51 PM, Bryan Wyatt wrote:

> FWIW, it's not "profiteering," it's called business. Gas is being
> sold at a price that people will continue to pay, even though it keeps
> going up. Until people stop paying (LOTS of people, not just one or
> two ninnies who send an email to "boycott evil company xxxx"), the
> price will go up.
>
> If I were a kid at a lemonade stand, and suddenly found that I could
> charge $0.50 and people would still buy it, why not charge $0.50? If
> my only goal is to make more money for that bike I've been wanting,
> who cares if only two people complain and go to Susie's $0.25 stand?
>
> I don't know why people expect them to "play fair". There's no such
> thing as "fair" until people (a far majority of the market) stop
> paying for it and/or find an alternative. Plain and simple.
>
> -Bryan
>
> p.s. Keep in mind, gasoline isn't the only thing Exxon and Co.
> actually! do for a living...
>
> Bonni Weatherwax wrote:
>>
>> ***Oh, you hit the nail on the head alright, Bob. Out here in
>> California it seems we never even got a price break yet. It's
>> rediculous.
>>>
>>> Tell me that's not profiteering.
>>> Bob
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Miata mailing list
>> (email redacted)
>> ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
>
>
>
> No signature...the choice of a New Generation
>
> Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty
> viruses!_______________________________________________
> Miata mailing list
> (email redacted)
> ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
_______________________________________________
Miata mailing list
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Mail From: bryanewyatt (Bryan Wyatt)

You're not a Socialist as far as I can tell, so I'll leave the appellation of that title up to you :-)

That said, we are hardly a captive audience. There are alternatives to using personal vehicles. We simply choose the one that is most convenient to us, as do a lot of others. It's not a matter of having no alternative...it's a matter of *seeing* no alternative.

I for one choose to drive my little sports car aimlessly when I have the time as well as to work because it's the only car I have. I will continue to do so until I can't afford to pay for the gas. At that point, maybe I'll start taking the bus so I can drive on the weekends, maybe not. Either way, life goes on.

Sorry...this gas/evil business stuff just isn't on my radar...

-Bryan



"the.jack" <(email redacted)> wrote:
We could argue profiteering all day because it merely says it's
making profits by "unethical" means. I think taking advantage of a captive
audience is unethical, maybe that means I'm a socialist. Not something I've
ever considered myself, but I'm open to discussion as always ;)


No signature...the choice of a New Generation




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Mail From: bryanewyatt (Bryan Wyatt)

Honestly, it's simpler than you think.

I'm not trying to recommend vast social policy changes. The truth of the economics is that as long as someone pays for gas, there is no impetus to stop raising prices. How you choose to deal with it is up to you, and I will claim no liability for how you do it. I do suggest more legal venues such as the bus, carpooling, walking, etc. They may not be as convenient, but they are alternatives. I don't feel like doing any of the above, so I take my car. That said, I don't complain about the price of gas, either.

It could be much, much worse.

-Bryan

Bill Kellenberger <(email redacted)> wrote:
Interesting concept. How do you propose we stop paying for it? They prosecute 'drive-off's' where I live.

At 12:51 PM 3/6/2006, Bryan Wyatt wrote:
FWIW, it's not "profiteering," it's called business. Gas is being sold at a price that people will continue to pay, even though it keeps going up. Until people stop paying (LOTS of people, not just one or two ninnies who send an email to "boycott evil company xxxx"), the price will go up.

If I were a kid at a lemonade stand, and suddenly found that I could charge $0.50 and people would still buy it, why not charge $0.50? If my only goal is to make more money for that bike I've been wanting, who cares if only two people complain and go to Susie's $0.25 stand?

I don't know why people expect them to "play fair". There's no such thing as "fair" until people (a far majority of the market) stop paying for it and/or find an alternative. Plain and simple.

-Bryan

p.s. Keep in mind, gasoline isn't the only thing Exxon and Co. ac! tually do for a living...

Bonni Weatherwax <(email redacted)> wrote:

***Oh, you hit the nail on the head alright, Bob. Out here in California it seems we never even got a price break yet. It's rediculous.
Tell me that's not profiteering.
Bob


_______________________________________________
Miata mailing list
(email redacted)
ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata




No signature...the choice of a New Generation


Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!
_______________________________________________
Miata mailing list
(email redacted)
ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata Bill Kellenberger
www.miatabill.com _______________________________________________
Miata mailing list
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Mail From: robert (Rob Argento)

Perhaps the fact that people HAVE BEEN getting over it is part of the
problem. I would rather use the term "apathy" even, if it would be a bit
of an exaggeration, to describe the phenomena.

I am certainly not sure that such an important part of the nations
infrastructure - namely availability of energy - should be put into the
hands of quite unfettered private interests.

If it ain't fair - make it fair. (Not that I think that will happen.)

In all fairness I want to point out that we, in Europe, are quite used to
substantially higher petrol prices. Most of the difference is due to taxes
though the oil companies do manage to make huge profits anyway. (Except in
Norway having their own oil production.) But at the least we can say that
the tax surcharges do go towards infrastructure, steering energy usage and
back to the people in one way or another.

/Robban in Sewden (and sometimes Florida)

_____

From: (email redacted) [mailto:(email redacted)] On Behalf
Of Bryan Wyatt
Sent: den 6 mars 2006 14:30
To: list
Subject: Re: [Miata] Re: Gas prices, Ben Stein and other mythologies


I seriously doubt that's the case. People will pay, prices go up...doesn't
have to be more complicated than that.

Life ain't fair people. Get over it.

-Bryan

NoGood <(email redacted)> wrote:

The new higher prices came out just after the results of a national
poll that found people were willing to pay more for gas if it was for a
good cause. Obviously increased profits are a good cause.


On Mar 6, 2006, at 12:51 PM, Bryan Wyatt wrote:

> FWIW, it's not "profiteering," it's called business. Gas is being
> sold at a price that people will continue to pay, even though it keeps
> going up. Until people stop paying (LOTS of people, not just one or
> two ninnies who send an email to "boycott evil company xxxx"), the
> price will go up.
>
> If I were a kid at a lemonade stand, and suddenly found that I could
> charge $0.50 and people would still buy it, why not charge $0.50? If
> my only goal is to make more money for that bike I've been wanting,
> who cares if only two people complain and go to Susie's $0.25 stand?
>
> I don't know why people expect them to "play fair". There's no such
> thing as "fair" until people (a far majority of the market) stop
> paying for it and/or find an alternative. Plain and simple.
>
> -Bryan
>
> p.s. Keep in mind, gasoline isn't the only thing Exxon and Co.
> actually! do for a living...
>
> Bonni Weatherwax wrote:
>>
>> ***Oh, you hit the nail on the head alright, Bob. Out here in
>> California it seems we never even got a price break yet. It's
>> rediculous.
>>>
>>> Tell me that's not profiteering.
>>> Bob
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Miata mailing list
>> (email redacted)
>> ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
>
>
>
> No signature...the choice of a New Generation
>
> Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty
> viruses!_______________________________________________
> Miata mailing list
> (email redacted)
> ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
_______________________________________________
Miata mailing list
(email redacted)
ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata





No signature...the choice of a New Generation


_____

Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus
<us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/virusall/*communications.yah
oo.com/features.php?page=221> scanning helps detect nasty viruses!
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Mail From: robert (Rob Argento)

Driving our little Sports cars aimlessly has nothing to do with it. For
MANY Americans, you ARE a captive audience with few alternatives, if any to
be able to get to work, get to the shops or to do just about anything.

/Robban

_____

From: (email redacted) [mailto:(email redacted)] On Behalf
Of Bryan Wyatt
Sent: den 6 mars 2006 14:36
To: 'Miata List'
Subject: RE: [Miata] Re: Gas prices, Ben Stein and other mythologies


You're not a Socialist as far as I can tell, so I'll leave the appellation
of that title up to you :-)

That said, we are hardly a captive audience. There are alternatives to
using personal vehicles. We simply choose the one that is most convenient
to us, as do a lot of others. It's not a matter of having no
alternative...it's a matter of *seeing* no alternative.

I for one choose to drive my little sports car aimlessly when I have the
time as well as to work because it's the only car I have. I will continue
to do so until I can't afford to pay for the gas. At that point, maybe I'll
start taking the bus so I can drive on the weekends, maybe not. Either way,
life goes on.

Sorry...this gas/evil business stuff just isn't on my radar...

-Bryan



"the.jack" <(email redacted)> wrote:

We could argue profiteering all day because it merely says it's
making profits by "unethical" means. I think taking advantage of a captive
audience is unethical, maybe that means I'm a socialist. Not something I've
ever considered myself, but I'm open to discussion as always ;)




No signature...the choice of a New Generation


_____

Yahoo! Mail
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<pa.yahoo.com/*us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=39174/*photomail.mai
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Mail From: bryanewyatt (Bryan Wyatt)

Perhaps we'll have to agree to disagree. Sure, having a car seems like the only alternative, but that's because we've just become accustomed to the convenience so much that it seems like a need. We could do something else, but we choose not to--not because it can't be done.

In my opinion, if you have a Miata and drive it for any kind of "fun" as opposed to driving a larger vehicle capable of carrying more stuff/people, you really have no right to complain about gas prices until you sell it for something more efficient. My unwillingness to do so is why I normally stay out of these discussions.

You're entitled to your opinion, however. This is just mine.

I'm done with this discussion.

-Bryan

Rob Argento <(email redacted)> wrote:
Driving our little Sports cars aimlessly has nothing to do with it. For MANY Americans, you ARE a captive audience with few alternatives, if any to be able to get to work, get to the shops or to do just about anything.

/Robban



---------------------------------
From: (email redacted) [mailto:(email redacted)] On Behalf Of Bryan Wyatt
Sent: den 6 mars 2006 14:36
To: 'Miata List'
Subject: RE: [Miata] Re: Gas prices, Ben Stein and other mythologies



You're not a Socialist as far as I can tell, so I'll leave the appellation of that title up to you :-)

That said, we are hardly a captive audience. There are alternatives to using personal vehicles. We simply choose the one that is most convenient to us, as do a lot of others. It's not a matter of having no alternative...it's a matter of *seeing* no alternative.

I for one choose to drive my little sports car aimlessly when I have the time as well as to work because it's the only car I have. I will continue to do so until I can't afford to pay for the gas. At that point, maybe I'll start taking the bus so I can drive on the weekends, maybe not. Either way, life goes on.

Sorry...this gas/evil business stuff just isn't on my radar...

-Bryan



"the.jack" <(email redacted)> wrote:
We could argue profiteering all day because it merely says it's
making profits by "unethical" means. I think taking advantage of a captive
audience is unethical, maybe that means I'm a socialist. Not something I've
ever considered myself, but I'm open to discussion as always ;)


No signature...the choice of a New Generation



---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail
Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.


No signature...the choice of a New Generation




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