Miata List Archive

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Mail From: billkille (Bill Kille)

"MH" said:

>"Crash"? I have noticed that our local public insurance (Manitoba) is on
>some kind of campaign in the last year or so where they have started calling
>what I have always known as accidents as crashes. Is this use of 'crash'
>common down south? To me when I hear the word 'crash' I think of 4 year old
>boys in sand boxes. It sounds ludicrous to me to have grown adults on the
>radio discussing car crashes.

'Crash', to me, brings to mind NASCAR......


--
Bill Kille, Chestertown, Md. USA
'06 Silver MX-5
Delaware Valley Miata Club

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Mail From: John (John Hammer)

I'll politely disagree.

I'd rather have both the throttle AND the steering to control my car
than take one away & hope the other is enough. But that's just me.

John Hammer
(email redacted)



> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: RE: [Miata] Bit Of A Scare
> From: (email redacted)
> Date: Thu, November 16, 2006 2:13 pm
> To: (email redacted)
>
> > > From: "Diane Shelton" <(email redacted)>
> > > I had a small scare also. Got caught at work when we had our first snow. Not
> > > much, just a light dusting. On the way home the light changed. I was doing
> > > about 30 in 3rd, when I let up on the gas I went sideways. As it is a new car I
> > > am still getting use to its response. I was able to rid it out by feathering
> > > the gas and steering into the skid several time. Very impressed with how easy
> > > it was compared to other cars I had.
>
> From: John Hammer <(email redacted)>
> > Excellent, Diane!=
> > That's exactly how you should control a skid. Steady throttle (not a
> > lift or a stab!), steer into the skid, but then, steer back to correct
> > it once you've caught it. Smooth, gentle inputs. Only do enough to
> > catch the car...it's hard to teach without doing it a bunch of times.
>
> It can be easier to bash in the clutch and let all the tires freewheel while you steer the front wheels in the direction of travel. Minimal input to powered wheels is the key, and you can get more minimal than freewheeling.
>
> Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA
> 1962 Triumph TR4 CT2846L, 1992 Saturn SL2, 1993 Suburban,
> 1994 Miata C package
> pethier [at] comcast [dot] net forum.mnautox.com/forums/
> flickr.com/photos/pethier
> I decry the textmessagization of the American-English language.
> _______________________________________________
> Miata mailing list
> (email redacted)
> ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: whawn (Wayne Hawn)

I agree if you are in an over-steer situation (which is what we were
talking about). However, way back in my pre-miata days when I drove an
automatic in winter, I learned that disengaging the drive wheels can
make a big difference on ice if the car is pushing while you are trying
to make a low speed turn. If the car is still in drive and you are on
the brakes, the fronts will lock up earlier than the drive wheels
(assuming rear wheel drive), resulting in more under-steer. (I am
talking about a low speed turn where it is tight enough that you do not
dare get on the gas -- like turning into a parking lot).

But, if you are in an over-steer situation, I agree, you need the drive
wheels engaged.

With respect to the crashes on a highway, going straight, a lot of them
come from someone driving along, and then going up over an overpass.
The colder air under the bridge freezes the highway. Then, the drive
wheels hit the area of very low friction, and the throttle position
previously used to hold the car at 60MPH suddenly becomes not so good,
or someone is trying to change lanes, and does so on the overpass.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: (email redacted) [mailto:(email redacted)] On
> Behalf Of John Hammer
> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 10:40 AM
> To: unlisted-recipients
> Cc: (email redacted)
> Subject: RE: [Miata] Bit Of A Scare
>
> I'll politely disagree.
>
> I'd rather have both the throttle AND the steering to control my car
> than take one away & hope the other is enough. But that's just me.
>
> John Hammer
> (email redacted)
>
>
>
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: RE: [Miata] Bit Of A Scare
> > From: (email redacted)
> > Date: Thu, November 16, 2006 2:13 pm
> > To: (email redacted)
> >
> > > > From: "Diane Shelton" <(email redacted)>
> > > > I had a small scare also. Got caught at work when we had our
first
> snow. Not
> > > > much, just a light dusting. On the way home the light changed.
I
> was doing
> > > > about 30 in 3rd, when I let up on the gas I went sideways. As
it is
> a new car I
> > > > am still getting use to its response. I was able to rid it out
by
> feathering
> > > > the gas and steering into the skid several time. Very impressed
> with how easy
> > > > it was compared to other cars I had.
> >
> > From: John Hammer <(email redacted)>
> > > Excellent, Diane!=
> > > That's exactly how you should control a skid. Steady throttle
(not a
> > > lift or a stab!), steer into the skid, but then, steer back to
correct
> > > it once you've caught it. Smooth, gentle inputs. Only do enough
to
> > > catch the car...it's hard to teach without doing it a bunch of
times.
> >
> > It can be easier to bash in the clutch and let all the tires
freewheel
> while you steer the front wheels in the direction of travel. Minimal
> input to powered wheels is the key, and you can get more minimal than
> freewheeling.
> >
> > Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA
> > 1962 Triumph TR4 CT2846L, 1992 Saturn SL2, 1993 Suburban,
> > 1994 Miata C package
> > pethier [at] comcast [dot] net forum.mnautox.com/forums/
> > flickr.com/photos/pethier
> > I decry the textmessagization of the American-English language.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Miata mailing list
> > (email redacted)
> > ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata
>
> _______________________________________________
> Miata mailing list
> (email redacted)
> ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/miata

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: jonesmb (Jones)

> With respect to the crashes on a highway, going straight, a lot of them
> come from someone driving along, and then going up over an overpass.
> The colder air under the bridge freezes the highway. Then, the drive
> wheels hit the area of very low friction, and the throttle position
> previously used to hold the car at 60MPH suddenly becomes not so good,
> or someone is trying to change lanes, and does so on the overpass.

I saw something like this last night. there were strong winds. 20mph
is strong around here. it was raining and it was cold - about 40 F
(4 degrees for our Celcius friends). a driver in a black Firebird
passed me. I was doing about 50 so he must have been faster. he drove
over a slight dip in the road and on an overpass. it looks like the
car was light after the dip. he landed on the overpass and went
sideways to the left. traffic was light. we slowed down and watched
the rear end fish tail. I thought he was going to go through the
concrete barrier and over the edge. he somehow kept the car pointed
in the right direction and pulled over to the shoulder. the only
damage was his ego, and possibly his pants. I am sure he crapped
on himself.

jmb

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: pethier ((email redacted))

From: John Hammer <(email redacted)>
> I'll politely disagree.
>
> I'd rather have both the throttle AND the steering to control my car
> than take one away & hope the other is enough. But that's just me.
>
> John Hammer
> (email redacted)

That's just you. A skilled professional.

The typical driver whose only goal is to get the car back under control as quickly as possible is better served by letting all 4 wheels freewheel and concentrating 100% on the steering. While it is true that keeping the drive wheels connected and putting in JUST the right amount of input on the throttle pedal can look a heck of a lot more elegant (and get the car down that next straight faster), the consequences of putting in the WRONG input on the throttle pedal can can be pretty bad.

I'm not a road-racing instructor, and I don't play one on TV, but driving and observing through 39 Minnesota winters has taught me the value of keeping it simple.

The typical driver does not need the throttle to get the car back under control. Getting the car back under control using the steering alone is a skill more-easily learned than working the throttle and the steering in concert.

When I was very young, I read an article in Popular Mechanics called "How to lay Blocks like an Amateur". The basic premise was that a real pro was always going to lay blocks better and faster than you, but that an amateur could easily learn to lay blocks better by mastering simple amateur techniques than by trying to master more-advanced professional techniques.

--
Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA
1962 Triumph TR4 CT2846L, 1992 Saturn SL2, 1993 Suburban,
1994 Miata C package
pethier [at] comcast [dot] net forum.mnautox.com/forums/
flickr.com/photos/pethier
I decry the textmessagization of the American-English language.